So why do people stil use the confederate flag?

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Rallispec

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: Rallispec

Originally posted by: gopunk
why do the boston red sox still have fans?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA. could be worse

cubs?

i often wonder why i'm still an orioles fan

never been to fenway or camden yards...

but wrigley field is very nice (aside from the obstructed view in a lot of the seats). very old school, open.... it's just nice.

Gopunk, it is truly a feeling. Cool air. Small field. Looking at the green monster. Paying $3 for a hotdog thats probably overcooked. Another $3 to wash down the taste. $8 to get a beer. Seats that cost $70 each from a scalper that cause incredible back pain for anyone taller than 5 feet. But just seeing Javy Lopez of the braves hit a home run and Nomar LOB in the 9th and watching the sox continue their tradtion is truly priceless.

I took my dad for his 52nd.

-PAB

 

[StattlichPassat]

For me personally, it's a sign of my alma mater back home- Robert E. Lee High School, the Rebels. I don't look at the flag and see slavery and crap like that. I see my high school, football games, and other school events. Odd maybe, but it was a great school (and former HS of Laura Bush I might add). You can P.C. my ascot, I don't care. It's all about Rebel Pride to me!

The only bad instance is when you get these domestically understood ideals outside of your community (as I have to you guys here on ATOT)... I remember the State Championship back in 2000 when we played a team from Austin (was in college, drove down for the game to meet old friends). The entire team was black, and so was at least 90% of the stands on the other side. But here we were waving the flags all over the place. It didn't help any that we killed them 43-7 or something either.

 

[UDT89]

Let them have their flag. Everytime i see it, its a symbol of defeat....nothing more. Its like waving a banner that the Bills won the super bowl....................

 

[StattlichPassat]

I'll also add that I have no respect for the ignorant bastards who fly it for bad intent, but for those who do or have a small sticker on the back of their car or truck because it's a symbol of Southern pride or their heritage, I really don't have a problem with it. I wouldn't put a sticker on my car (a Volkswagen- that'd look odd...) or fly the flag at my residence personally, but that's just me. You really can't label the ignorant bastards from the good people legally, so that's why flying or showing the flag is taboo these days. Kinda too bad- it's a great looking flag.

 

[yakko]

Originally posted by: Lucky
hell yea. whenever i get rich i'm going to buy one of those rooftops across the street.

I heard they were going to put up a higher fence so the rooftops would be useless.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: yakko

Originally posted by: Lucky
hell yea. whenever i get rich i'm going to buy one of those rooftops across the street.

I heard they were going to put up a higher fence so the rooftops would be useless.

Yes they are. I think that is bad publicity. But you can buy seats in the stands with a pillar 4 feet in front of you directly in your way.

<--- had one of those seats a few years ago. Just walked down and picked a new seat

 

[Bluefront]

I hope some of you smug Yankees realize The CSA was within an eyelash of winning The War Between The States on several occasions......most noteably the "First Battle of Bull Run".......when the cowardly first army of the North turned tail and ran for their lives. Had the CSA followed up on that victory, taken the capitol, the North would have no doubt sued for peace.

You Damn Yankees would now be looking across your southern border at the CSA, a great independant nation, proudly flying the Stars and Bars. I'm proud of my heritage and my flag. Don't like it? GTH.

 

[AnyMal]

I hope some day the record of Civil War and what it meant to Southerners will be set straight. I am sick and tired of hearing that the war was entirely fought on the grounds of slavery issue. Nothing could be farher from the truth, but who's interested in truth anymore? I mean, some 80%-90% of southern folk were plain dirt-poor, they couldn't afford a pair of boots, let alone a slave. It was oppression from the North they fought, for better lives for their families and generations to come, not over the stupid slavery. Hey, this country was founded by the rich white slave owners, so should we re-write the history and make it politically correct?

 

I'm sure RioRebel could answer your question.

 

[Linflas]

I think you would have to have been born and raised in the south to understand it. For the majority of people it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with being proud our heritage. People would do well to remember that the racist groups that dishonor the Stars and Bars by flying it generally also fly christian and US flags yet no one gets offended by that.

 

[Hubris]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
I hope some of you smug Yankees realize The CSA was within an eyelash of winning The War Between The States on several occasions......most noteably the "First Battle of Bull Run".......when the cowardly first army of the North turned tail and ran for their lives. Had the CSA followed up on that victory, taken the capitol, the North would have no doubt sued for peace.

You Damn Yankees would now be looking across your southern border at the CSA, a great independant nation, proudly flying the Stars and Bars. I'm proud of my heritage and my flag. Don't like it? GTH.

Pipe dreams are fun, aren't they? We could do it all day.

I'm too tired to have this argument again. Here is where we last had this same damn argument.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I hope some day the record of Civil War and what it meant to Southerners will be set straight. I am sick and tired of hearing that the war was entirely fought on the grounds of slavery issue. Nothing could be farher from the truth, but who's interested in truth anymore? I mean, some 80%-90% of southern folk were plain dirt-poor, they couldn't afford a pair of boots, let alone a slave. It was oppression from the North they fought, for better lives for their families and generations to come, not over the stupid slavery. Hey, this country was founded by the rich white slave owners, so should we re-write the history and make it politically correct?

Great post. NIcley done.

I feared that I would enter this thread and need to correct the historical inacuracy that I was sure would abound in this thread.

Thanks to jemcam, bluefont and linflas for posting, You all saved me alot of typing.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
I hope some of you smug Yankees realize The CSA was within an eyelash of winning The War Between The States on several occasions......most noteably the "First Battle of Bull Run".......when the cowardly first army of the North turned tail and ran for their lives. Had the CSA followed up on that victory, taken the capitol, the North would have no doubt sued for peace.

You Damn Yankees would now be looking across your southern border at the CSA, a great independant nation, proudly flying the Stars and Bars. I'm proud of my heritage and my flag. Don't like it? GTH.

'Your' side lost. Taste it.

 

[dman]

Originally posted by: gopunk
why do the boston red sox still have fans?

That should sting, but it doesn't, I must be immune. I've given up on them ever winning the world series (at least during my lifetime) but man, I thought they had a good chance of at least making the playoffs this year. AL West killed those dreams though. Go Anaheim.

Of course, If we played Tampa Bay 162 games we might still be in first. From last nights recap.: "They said they wanted to play us every day. We didn't like it, but we haven't done anything about it," Tampa Bay manager Hal McRae said. "We would like to do more damage, but we haven't done any. They have played well against us."

Too funny. I don't understand the rivalry between TB and Boston, I think it had something to do with Wade Boggs playing there and later being the batting coach?

------

As for confederate flags? They look cool and the Dukes of Hazzard had 'em on their bitchin ride. Na nah naw naw na na, na na nah nah naw naw. Still wouldn't catch my flying one.

 

[ohtwell]

Being from the South I see the people you are talking about all the time. In fact my brother would be like that if he thought I wouldn't kick his arse for it. For them it's pride in their history. They don't believe that the South was doing anything wrong and the also believe that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery. Whenever you try to explain that to them they say some "Yankee" wrote the book and that it's wrong. Stupid people.

: ) Amanda

 

[ohtwell]

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I hope some day the record of Civil War and what it meant to Southerners will be set straight. I am sick and tired of hearing that the war was entirely fought on the grounds of slavery issue. Nothing could be farher from the truth, but who's interested in truth anymore? I mean, some 80%-90% of southern folk were plain dirt-poor, they couldn't afford a pair of boots, let alone a slave. It was oppression from the North they fought, for better lives for their families and generations to come, not over the stupid slavery. Hey, this country was founded by the rich white slave owners, so should we re-write the history and make it politically correct?

Southerners will tell you that the war was fought to defend state's rights. They are correct but what they won't admit to is that the right they were defending more than the others was the one to keep their slaves.


: ) Amanda

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: ohtwell
Being from the South I see the people you are talking about all the time. In fact my brother would be like that if he thought I wouldn't kick his arse for it. For them it's pride in their history. They don't believe that the South was doing anything wrong and the also believe that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery. Whenever you try to explain that to them they say some "Yankee" wrote the book and that it's wrong. Stupid people.

: ) Amanda

The problem with the debate is that the war was not about slavery but slavery was the central issue that led to it. Absent slavery there would have been no civil war and the groundwork was done back during the days of the Constitution when the founders ended up having to table the issue in order to get a Constitution. The "the war was not about slavery" arguement is really an expression of the fact that less than 1/3 of southerners actually owned a slave yet all were willing to take up arms against the Union. When asked what they were fighting for none of them would have replied slavery. Likewise until the Emancipation Proclamation few Union soldiers would have indentified freeing the slaves as a reason for their fight. It is the ultimate effect of the war that we remember though and that was the abolition of slavery and preservation of the Union. The descendants of those southerners that fought so hard against the Union are now some of the most patriotic Americans you will find. In fact some of those same southerners that fought in the civil war went on to wear the uniform of the United States in the Spanish American war.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

No, it was not over slavery. Lincoln MADE it over slavery after it was already in progress. The war was over state's rights. The south thought that the central government was too big and wanted more local control while the north favored a large central government.

The confederate flag has effectively NOTHING to do with slavery.

Alot of symbols get misinterpreted by people that somehow think they're being oppressed by slavery that happened 140 years ago. An example of this is when a local sherrif proposed that they use a noose in the words "Old Hangtown" on the side of thier cars. They didn't think it was a big issue. The town got the name because of a hanging judge in the mid-late 1800's. That didn't stop people from claiming that it had something to do with slavery and racism though. And it didn't stop someone that was visiting from San Fransisco (our town is in the foothills on the way to Tahoe. yup, NOT EVEN IN THE SOUTH) from complaining about the dummy that's been hanging outside of the Hangman's Tree bar for as long as anyone can remember. 20/20 did a show on it, they were forced to take it down... that lasted a week at the most.

Before tearing apart a symbol, find out what it means to the people using it.

A "rolling log" was a symbol used by some native american tribes, it looks alot like a mirror image swastika. However, that doesn't mean they're nazis. It's hard to be a nazi hundreds of years before the party's formation.

 

[Nitemare]

I use it just to piss of all you yanks...


Seriously though, why do people use flags besides the stars and bars? Why did Jesse Owens raise one hand fist up to the sky upon winning a Gold medal..It's all about pride



And the North could give a sh!t about the slaves, they profited more off slavery than the south did. The south had slave labor and would produce raw and unfinished goods, sell it to manufacturers in the north for a meager sum, the the north would in turn sell it back to the south and to Europe for a nice sum. So before you start calling the south a bunch of rednecks who enslaved people, if you take away the profit that the north made on slave labor, you would not have jack. The only reason why you won the war was because the south was a primarily agrarian society and the north was a manufacturing society. About the only thing the south had that the north did not have was better uniforms and better food.

The civil war was about slavery....Bullsh1t. It was because the North could not afford to lose its source of raw materials. Slavery was just a drop in the hat

 

[Zenmervolt]

They don't believe that the South was doing anything wrong and the also believe that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery.

Wow. I have never heard a Southerner say that. I'm a Yankee for cryin' out loud and I know better than that.

The issue of slavery didn't even get introduced into the Civil War until 1863 or so. The first couple years of the war, slavery was a non-issue. Lincoln needed a way to keep Europe from intervening on the Confederate side, so he issued the Emancipation Proclamation (which actually only freed the slaves in Confederate states and left the slaves in Union states still in bondage). European countries had already emancipated their slaves and did not want to intervene after Lincoln's proclamation for fear of being perceived internally as against emancipation. And I was taught all this in an Ohio school. Not all of us Yanks are so ignorant that we don't understand the myriad of causes behind the Civil War.

ZV

 

[Red Dawn]

The Confederate Flag is a symbol of Southern Heritage. Unfortunately many organizations of inbred racists have also made it their symbol.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

They don't believe that the South was doing anything wrong and the also believe that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery.

Wow. I have never heard a Southerner say that. I'm a Yankee for cryin' out loud and I know better than that.

The issue of slavery didn't even get introduced into the Civil War until 1863 or so. The first couple years of the war, slavery was a non-issue. Lincoln needed a way to keep Europe from intervening on the Confederate side, so he issued the Emancipation Proclamation (which actually only freed the slaves in Confederate states and left the slaves in Union states still in bondage). European countries had already emancipated their slaves and did not want to intervene after Lincoln's proclamation for fear of being perceived internally as against emancipation. And I was taught all this in an Ohio school. Not all of us Yanks are so ignorant that we don't understand the myriad of causes behind the Civil War.

ZV

It isn't the Yankees. It is mainly the PC find a fault with every symbol people. They mainly come out of Berkeley and other parts of California. Minus Red Dawn of Course.

 

[Red Dawn]

They mainly come out of Berkeley and other parts of California. Minus Red Dawn of Course

Thanks for excluding me but that still doesn't excuse you for being ignorant Mill If you want to blame an Area for being Liberal blame the Northeast(Hey it's Kennedy Country). Besides SF, LA and Bezerley most of CA is Centrist and there are as many Whacko Right Wingers as there are Bleeding Heart Liberals. I guess the reason CA might seem Liberal is because the Ultra's like to portray CA as one big Bezerkley which is a lie (the kind of lie they are accustomed to using to try and sway people to their confused way of thinking) If the CA Republican Party weren't run by a bunch of Panty Waists we'd get rid of Boxer and Finklestein as our Senators and when we do have a Republican Governor he won't be a little weasal like PeeWee Pete Wilson.

Remember, Ronald Reagan, the Greatest Republican President since Lincoln, came from CA. In fact he came from the Hollywood Community (Now if that isn't ironic I don't know what is)

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

They mainly come out of Berkeley and other parts of California. Minus Red Dawn of Course

Thanks for excluding me but that still doesn't excuse you for being ignorant Mill If you want to blame an Area for being Liberal blame the Northeast(Hey it's Kennedy Country). Besides SF, LA and Bezerley most of CA is Centrist and there are as many Whacko Right Wingers as there are Bleeding Heart Liberals. I guess the reason CA might seem Liberal is because the Ultra's like to portray CA as one big Bezerkley which is a lie (the kind of lie they are accustomed to using to try and sway people to their confused way of thinking) If the CA Republican Party weren't run by a bunch of Panty Waists we'd get rid of Boxer and Finklestein as our Senators and when we do have a Republican Governor he won't be a little weasal like PeeWee Pete Wilson.

Remember, Ronald Reagan, the Greatest Republican President since Lincoln, came from CA. In fact he came from the Hollywood Community (Now if that isn't ironic I don't know what is)

Wasn't he also a Democrat at one time and president of SAG as well? For some reason people seem to believe that California is all LA and San Francisco and ignore the fact that it is a huge state with a lot of rural/agricultural interests as well. I think that moderates in either party stand a very good chance in California elections based on the overall history of the entire state.

 

[Red Dawn]

I think that moderates in either party stand a very good chance in California elections based on the overall history of the entire state.

In the Presidentiaql Election Bush won over 45% of the votes(well over 4 million). If he wouldn't have been portrayed as a functional idiot by the press and if he didn't hail from Texas he might have won CA. Here in Merced County he beat Gore handily.