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So why did you not use the buses to evacuate NOL, Mr. Mayor?

episodic

Lifer
From the first page of drudgereport.com:


Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

So, umm, like why did they not follow their own plans?
 
Originally posted by: episodic
From the first page of drudgereport.com:


Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

So, umm, like why did they not follow their own plans?


Because all emergencies are cluster fvcks...

And the idiots are out in full force after one to point fingers & prove their own personal agenda.

(nothing against this post at all BTW, it's just that a disaster paln is just that: "a plan" reality creeps in after a real disaster.)

 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: episodic
From the first page of drudgereport.com:


Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

So, umm, like why did they not follow their own plans?


Because all emergencies are cluster fvcks...

And the idiots are out in full force after one to point fingers & prove their own personal agenda.

(nothing against this post at all BTW, it's just that a disaster paln is just that: "a plan" reality creeps in after a real disaster.)

Yes disaster plans are just that, plans And there are some here that are willing to accept the failures of the state and local goverment, but not willing accept the failures from the fed. And not only will they not accept failures from the fed, they are very willing to pin it on just one person.


This is a point I have been trying to make for the last several days, but it appears there are many that are blinded by their partisonship.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: episodic
From the first page of drudgereport.com:


Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

So, umm, like why did they not follow their own plans?


Because all emergencies are cluster fvcks...

And the idiots are out in full force after one to point fingers & prove their own personal agenda.

(nothing against this post at all BTW, it's just that a disaster paln is just that: "a plan" reality creeps in after a real disaster.)

Yes disaster plans are just that, plans And there are some here that are willing to accept the failures of the state and local goverment, but not willing accept the failures from the fed. And not only will they not accept failures from the fed, they are very willing to pin it on just one person.


This is a point I have been trying to make for the last several days, but it appears there are many that are blinded by their partisonship.


This should be a career ender for many - not just donkies or elephants. . .
 
I just got back from helping at Reunion Arena in Dallas, it's a massive cluster fvck...

Out local county hospital is doing an awesome job of helping as well as the Dallas Fire Dept.

But I really liked that everyone goes through metal detector wanding and security in general is tight, I struggled through the "volunteer line" for 10 minutes, the guy in front of me had no business going in, a Red Cross volunteer told him 3 times "Sir you can't come in here" on the third time an armed Nat Guardsman stepped in to back her up & ran the asshole off...

<---Emergency room nurse for nearly 10 years that cranked out a 78 hour week counting my volunteer time today.
 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Text

Yep, debunked for me...

Water inside deisel is no good. I hydrolocked my F350 once crossing a stream and engine was ruined. Tow bill was $2500 cause it did'nt move one bit after sucking water though intake manifold and I was in BFE
 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Text

Yep, debunked for me...
1) You don't know when those buses were flooded. Might have been before the levee break.
2) You don't know what parish those buses were in. They might not even be in the Orleans parish.
3) (and this is a long one...and one I'm getting sick and tired of posting over and over and over and...

100,000 people or more needed to be evacuated as they do not have the means to get out of the city on their own.

The post-flood Superdome evacuation started about midnight Wed. night (60 hours ago) (well, at the time I originally wrote this) and only 15,000-20,000 have been evac?d from there (5,000 remain)

Now, extrapolate that out to 100,000 people and they would have had to have started the evacuation sometime back around the middle of August (there was no Katrina back then.)


Also, I?ve read posts on other boards (like nola and wwltv) of people in that area discussing this topic and, in some districts, the keys are locked in a safe and that most of the city employees were already ordered out.

The NOLA emergency plan doesn?t include public transportation out of the city, only public transportation to temporary shelters which is exactly what they offered.

And remember, Mayor Nagin was requesting outside assistance to provide security for the process and received little or none. The city, itself, cannot provide security to escort and control 100,000, esp. when they just evacuated 80% of the city.


And, the referenced portion of the NOLA evac plan cuts out the part that says people will be evacuated to temporary shelters, which is EXACTLY what happened. But, then again, knowing it's posted at Drudge, it shouldn't be a surprise he would take something out of context.


Here's the full portion:
http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

Slow developing weather conditions (primarily hurricane) will create increased readiness culminating in an evacuation order 24 hours (12 daylight hours) prior to predicted landfall. Disabled vehicles and debris will be removed from highways so as not to impede evacuation. In local evacuations involving more than fifty (50) families (i.e. 50 single dwelling units), staging areas may be established at the closest available public area outside the threatened area. Upon arrival at the staging area, evacuees will be directed to the appropriate shelter facility. Evacuees will be encouraged to stay with friends or relatives in non-threatened areas whenever possible. Security measures will be employed to protect the evacuated area(s) in accordance with established procedures and situations.

The use of travel-trailers, campers, motorcycles, bicycles, etc., during the evacuation will be allowed so long as the situation permits it. Public information broadcasts will include any prohibitions on their use. Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area. (See Special Needs Transportation, ESF-1). An orderly return to the evacuated areas will be provided after the Mayor determines the threat to be terminated. Transportation back to the evacuated area after threat termination will be provided as available.
 
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.

I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.
 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I just got back from helping at Reunion Arena in Dallas, it's a massive cluster fvck...

Out local county hospital is doing an awesome job of helping as well as the Dallas Fire Dept.

But I really liked that everyone goes through metal detector wanding and security in general is tight, I struggled through the "volunteer line" for 10 minutes, the guy in front of me had no business going in, a Red Cross volunteer told him 3 times "Sir you can't come in here" on the third time an armed Nat Guardsman stepped in to back her up & ran the asshole off...

<---Emergency room nurse for nearly 10 years that cranked out a 78 hour week counting my volunteer time today.


:thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I just got back from helping at Reunion Arena in Dallas, it's a massive cluster fvck...

Out local county hospital is doing an awesome job of helping as well as the Dallas Fire Dept.

But I really liked that everyone goes through metal detector wanding and security in general is tight, I struggled through the "volunteer line" for 10 minutes, the guy in front of me had no business going in, a Red Cross volunteer told him 3 times "Sir you can't come in here" on the third time an armed Nat Guardsman stepped in to back her up & ran the asshole off...

<---Emergency room nurse for nearly 10 years that cranked out a 78 hour week counting my volunteer time today.

:beer: for the moose!

 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.

I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.

Where is a safe place that they could have bussed 200,000 people too?
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh Jesus Christ...


R E P O S T!!


And a debunked one at that.



The only way it is debunked is if you admit the state and local are too inept to find drivers and diesel.
 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.

I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.
And who was going to drive 1000s of buses considering a mandatory evac had been ordered? Where were 1000s of buses going to come from? New Orleans area is about the same size as here and there as hell ain't 1000s of public buses (and Jefferson County, KY has one of the largest public school systems in the nation)
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh Jesus Christ...


R E P O S T!!


And a debunked one at that.
The only way it is debunked is if you admit the state and local are too inept to find drivers and diesel.
Uhhh.....no.



uh yes. Drivers and diesel are the major logistical obsticle to getting people evacuated.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.

I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.
And who was going to drive 1000s of buses considering a mandatory evac had been ordered? Where were 1000s of buses going to come from? New Orleans area is about the same size as here and there as hell ain't 1000s of public buses (and Jefferson County, KY has one of the largest public school systems in the nation)


Volunteers that have to leave the city? Driving a bus is not a special skill.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh Jesus Christ...


R E P O S T!!


And a debunked one at that.
The only way it is debunked is if you admit the state and local are too inept to find drivers and diesel.
Uhhh.....no.
uh yes. Drivers and diesel are the major logistical obsticle to getting people evacuated.
Uh, no. Time, number of buses, shelter locations and money are the key factors.

The city officials did what they could given the time remaining before the storm hit.

Look at what's been happening since the storm to judge the timeframe.

25,000 people from the Superdome have taken 72 hours.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.

I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.
And who was going to drive 1000s of buses considering a mandatory evac had been ordered? Where were 1000s of buses going to come from? New Orleans area is about the same size as here and there as hell ain't 1000s of public buses (and Jefferson County, KY has one of the largest public school systems in the nation)


Volunteers that have to leave the city? Driving a bus is not a special skill.
And the volunteers were going to come from where? A mandatory evac had been issued.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.

I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.
And who was going to drive 1000s of buses considering a mandatory evac had been ordered? Where were 1000s of buses going to come from? New Orleans area is about the same size as here and there as hell ain't 1000s of public buses (and Jefferson County, KY has one of the largest public school systems in the nation)


Volunteers that have to leave the city? Driving a bus is not a special skill.

You have to have a bus driving license to drive a bus in my state and we're as rural as it gets. I'm sure they have even stricter laws in NO.

Still where should they have taken these people??
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.

I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.
And who was going to drive 1000s of buses considering a mandatory evac had been ordered? Where were 1000s of buses going to come from? New Orleans area is about the same size as here and there as hell ain't 1000s of public buses (and Jefferson County, KY has one of the largest public school systems in the nation)


Volunteers that have to leave the city? Driving a bus is not a special skill.
And the volunteers were going to come from where? A mandatory evac had been issued.



Tell me again how many people had to leave the city? Are you telling me there would be not be enough volunteers to drive buses to help bus their less fortunate citizen out of danger?
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
And the volunteers were going to come from where? A mandatory evac had been issued.
Tell me again how many people had to leave the city? Are you telling me there would be not be enough volunteers to drive buses to help bus their less fortunate citizen out of danger?
According to all of the Mayor/Gov bashers, the only people left were the poor minorities (who didn't have cars and, likely, no drivers' licenses) and drug addicts. Yeah, I want an untrained driver or a drug addict driving 100,000 people out of the city in a time of great stress.
 
The local preparation and response, which in every natural disaster constitutes the bulk of the immediate response effort until the feds can put significant assistance assets on the ground, was woefully inadequate.

The feds proceeded as they always do, but the local response collapsed before it started under the crushing magnitude of need and crippled infrastructure, creating a much greater lag time before any help arrived, making it seem like the feds were sitting on their hands, when in fact we may find it surpassed every other previous federal response.

An analogy would be if someone were breaking into your home, you called 911, but the local police were absolutely overwhelmed, so you had to wait for state police to respond from the nearest post much further away. Happens all the time. The state police response may be as good as it gets, but if you have to wait what seems like a tortuously long time in fear or despair, you're going to be pissed-off at whom ever gets to you first, as though the lapse was on the part of the state police and not the local police.

I see at least one reporter is trying to undo some of the massively lop-sided media coverage that New Orleans received that grossly distorted the public's perception of the National Guard's burden:

Mississippians' Suffering Overshadowed

Now if we could just get a hundred more articles and television reports of the total devastation between NOLA and Biloxi, it might counter the perception that only New Orleans was affected or in dire straights.

Had I been watching the media coverage, totally unaware that pretty much everything between NOLA and Biloxi is leveled or under water as far as 20 miles inland, thousands of OTHER people needing help who apparently have few friends in the media, I might conclude that someone bungled the response badly. After all, only New Orleans is in urgent need of assistance, what is the holdup? Its just one city, what could all those rescue teams and National Guard troops possibly be doing?
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
And the volunteers were going to come from where? A mandatory evac had been issued.
Tell me again how many people had to leave the city? Are you telling me there would be not be enough volunteers to drive buses to help bus their less fortunate citizen out of danger?
According to all of the Mayor/Gov bashers, the only people left were the poor minorities (who didn't have cars and, likely, no drivers' licenses) and drug addicts. Yeah, I want an untrained driver or a drug addict driving 100,000 people out of the city in a time of great stress.



So you are saying that in a population of 100,000 you cant find 1% of the population who could drive a bus? You are getting desperate.
 
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