So why did Hillary lose?

[OutHouse]

What do you think it was?

Personally I don't think its Trump getting the racists out.. they were out in force against Obama.

she lost because of people like you calling non-racist, racist and other bullshit. she lost because people like you pissed off the blue collars and rural voters enought to totally flip the charts. she didnt just lose she got her ass handed to her.

and no Bernie did not ever stand a change. the map of the US would be more red than it was this morning if that elderly socialist was the democratic front runner.

thank you for your contribution to the Trump campaign

 

[Kazukian]

I think this is a big factor on why the polling was so wrong. The political left doesn't seem to tolerate any different perspective without attaching denigrating labels, so most people that supported Trump did so without saying it to many people outside their immediate circle. The vitriol from many of the left denouncing and demonizing those who didn't like Hillary or supported Trump was a big factor helping drive support for him in my opinion.

Actually, the raw data was correct, they just kept tweaking it till it showed the results they wanted.

 

[Exterous]

Or pretend that a self-proclaimed billionaire who evades taxes

Not sure what 'evades taxes' has to do with this since both candidates do it. The Clinton's have at least 3 trusts that afford them lower tax rates and all of which circumvent estate taxes. If you read her tax plan trusts receive no additional scrutiny so she has no plans to kill the golden goose she's using. Thats one of the reasons I don't like her - lots of populist talk on subjects but little meaningful action.

 

[Double Trouble]

Reading your posts here, I think you should seriously consider re-enrolling back into 9th grade... you're in no position to hand out your ill-informed blanket statements judging by what you've commented in this subforum.

Also, I'm not from the States.... your typical Hilary voter is no different to me than your Trump voter: both easily fooled and exploited through emotional appeal. You slot perfectly into the same group, regardless.

Looks like you pretty much proved my point. For some reason there are a lot of people who think that if someone has a different view or political lean it must be because they are dumb, ill-informed, racist, bigoted, easily exploited and such. The idea that people might simply disagree on something doesn't enter their thought process. This type of thinking is polarizing, not constructive and brings us candidates like Trump.

 

[Paratus]

Just a quick point here about majorities.

No candidate received a majority of the vote. 52% of the country wanted someone other than President elect Trump

He also lost the popular vote to Hillary (or at best roughly tied once the counting is done)

Trump did receive enough votes from a coalition of voters dissatisfied with the status quo to take the electoral college. This is not a majority of the country nor is it a plurality of the country.

The deep division of the country as shown by this election continues. Which will be felt in the mid terms and 2020 if not addressed.

 

[Zstream]

she lost because of people like you calling non-racist, racist and other bullshit. she lost because people like you pissed off the blue collars and rural voters enought to totally flip the charts. she didnt just lose she got her ass handed to her.

and no Bernie did not ever stand a change. the map of the US would be more red than it was this morning if that elderly socialist was the democratic front runner.

thank you for your contribution to the Trump campaign

My Facebook is full of white guilt and how Trump supports are racist and want to destroy all blacks and the LGBT community.

All I can do is face palm.

Chris Matthews got it: http://www.mediaite.com/online/chri...heard-her-come-out-against-these-stupid-wars/

 

[realibrad]

Excuse me, but why can't the economy be an important thing for me if I make > $70k???

People like Agent are a big part of Trump winning. They say racial resentment, even though the surveys he is talking about asked "losing out because of preferences for whites” or “losing out because of preferences for blacks and Hispanics.”

I would agree that whites are losing out, because, racism being reduced means minorities are now able to compete for the positions that were formerly for whites only. They then take the answer and say its racial resentment rather than progress.

The Right voted for their party and take the majority of the blame. The Left telling people that they are all racist and bigots drove those in the middle to the Right. The Left got focused on calling him a racist, bigot ect, and never focused on arguments about his positions. People saw a payday in Trump, and the Left could not let go of attacking him as a person. He is an asshole and he wont make American rich, but just attacking him on a personal level tuned people out of the Left. Listening to NPR, they had a writer on who said that the reason Trump won is because whites are racist and hate Obama, and Men hate women can cant vote for a woman. There are more minorities in this country than whites. Not all whites voted Trump, so that does not seem like that is the issue. There are slightly more women than men in this country, and not all men voted for Trump.

The Left leaning writer could not find any other reason other than racism and sexism. This is why the Left lost.

 

[blankslate]

She lost because she was the proxy for the establishment, and most of the country thinks the country is going in the wrong direction.

The democrats need to really think about what they have done. No oval, no house, no senate. Why? Because they backed a fucking criminal. And they knew it. They knew she wasn't the person for the job but they thought their deceit and control of media would get them through.

Bernie was there. An honest guy who cared. But, no, they had to shut him down and cheat to do it. Now they are reaping what they have sown.

Well said...

or to be crass

Fick Dich DWS, Donna Brazile and the rest of the establishment DNC this is on your heads.... if only we were in old medieval japan.


_______________

 

[highland145]

You can afford your daily bread with 70k/yr. You're allowed to complain about the economy only if you're struggling to balance three part-time minimum wage jobs, or if you're a stock broker.

But not at $100K...Must have missed the posts in the ACA thread. I could be out of pocket $30K before insurance pays anything.

 

[dphantom]

No. My spouse is from South East Asia. I've lived there before for many years. If things do really become bad, I may move if they don't welcome immigrants anymore but my spouse has a green card at the moment. So I'm not very worried but I am concerned..

Legal immigrants have never been an issue. It is the illegals who need to leave and if they want US citizenship, follow the established process - just like your wife did.

 

[Exterous]

Apparently this guy has called the elections correctly for 30 years, including this one.

The keys, which are explained in depth in Lichtman’s book “Predicting the Next President: The Keys to the White House 2016” are:

1. Party Mandate: After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections.
2. Contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination.
3. Incumbency: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president.
4. Third party: There is no significant third party or independent campaign.
5. Short-term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign.
6. Long-term economy: Real per-capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms.
7. Policy change: The incumbent administration effects major changes in national policy.
8. Social unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term.
9. Scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal.
10. Foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.
11. Foreign/military success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs.
12. Incumbent charisma: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero.
13. Challenger charisma: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ns-correctly-is-doubling-down-on-a-trump-win/
http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016/10/technical-indicators-point-to-a-trump-win/

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Sounds like you're backtracking.

"and the reasons are rational and emotional"

Where is the rational reasoning in this:
"Actually they vote in part because you think you are better than anyone else and that is not true. You and the far right have much in common, that is that anyone who is "not like us" is crap under your shoe."

"Rational and unenlightened scorn expressed in your pedantic way is not impressive."
Randomly quoting my comment without understanding its context and replying with the same crap as another poster shows me you have trouble comprehending how a forum works. If explaining context of my post that you blindly quoted is what you consider being pedantic and "unenlightened scorn" then perhaps next time read and process what's written before parroting exactly what another user has posted - that way I don't have to spoonfeed you the context behind a post.

Just a quick point here about majorities.

No candidate received a majority of the vote. 52% of the country wanted someone other than President elect Trump

He also lost the popular vote to Hillary (or at best roughly tied once the counting is done)

Trump did receive enough votes from a coalition of voters dissatisfied with the status quo to take the electoral college. This is not a majority of the country nor is it a plurality of the country.

The deep division of the country as shown by this election continues. Which will be felt in the mid terms and 2020 if not addressed.

What was Hillary's disapproval rating? It was the second highest since data has been collected. In truth more people wanted neither candidate than did. The thought that "well no matter what she's not Trump" wasn't a compelling argument and ignoring that she was a poor choice from the git-go and yelling "racist" at those who didn't like her proved to be the Dem's undoing.

People need to stop with this petty partisan shit and start thinking of our nation as a whole, not segments to be marketed to. Everyone deserves opportunity. Everyone deserves rights. Everyone has the right to be heard and not silenced if we disagree. Those principles are what gave America any greatness. Not our military or our "brand". Though we alway fell short we had progress, a move towards a greater inclusiveness but no longer. Lesser sons of greater sires. It has to stop.

 

[ivwshane]

Dude, keep calm and use Preparation H. Trump hasn't really aired out ANY sort of agenda, he's been too slick to be pinned down on most of what he wants to do, probably because he himself hadn't figured out exactly how much he could get Congress to agree to yet. I don't see how they could have voted for a rubber-stamp establishment when the "rubber stamp establishment" consists of a man who has never held office, has no track record in the office he never held, and was in fact ostracized by much of his own "establishment" party during the election.

Now, you want to now what "establishement" really means? In the dictionary, under "establishment," there's a family photo of the Clintons and Bushes. They're all grinning and giving the reader the finger.

Well clearly you haven't been paying attention. Trump doesn't care about policy, hence the lack of any detail or even an agenda as you admitted. Therefore, so long as repubs kiss his ring he will sign whatever they throw his way.
I wonder what your definition of McCain's reelection for the umpteenth time would be called, you certainly can't call it anti establishment.



I look forward to four years of utterly retarded, fact free comments from trump supporters.

 

[agent00f]

Excuse me, but why can't the economy be an important thing for me if I make > $70k???

The typical narrative is that these are people dispossessed of a good job by globalization or basically have little to lose so they're willing to roll the dice with trump. The data shows they already have the good jobs, and are terribly worried brown people are coming to take them.

 

[OutHouse]

Reading your posts here, I think you should seriously consider re-enrolling back into 9th grade... you're in no position to hand out your ill-informed blanket statements judging by what you've commented in this subforum.

Also, I'm not from the States.... your typical Hilary voter is no different to me than your Trump voter: both easily fooled and exploited through emotional appeal. You slot perfectly into the same group..

wow so you insult the guy then claim you are easily fooled. nice.

you totally proved his point.

 

[greatnoob]

Looks like you pretty much proved my point. For some reason there are a lot of people who think that if someone has a different view or political lean it must be because they are dumb, ill-informed, racist, bigoted, easily exploited and such. The idea that people might simply disagree on something doesn't enter their thought process. This type of thinking is polarizing, not constructive and brings us candidates like Trump.

"Looks like you pretty much proved my point."

Really? You somehow inferred I was apart of the 'political left' supporting Hilary. Both your candidates are as bad as eachother and I've been saying this throughout the entire thread.
I'll repeat this again: both Hilary and Trump voters are equally as stupid as each other in my eyes. If the US' economy is negatively affected by Trump and - from what little I've looked up - his contractionary policies (save for small consumer and larger business tax cuts) then I and other Australians also have to share part of the economic burden (albeit a smaller load than the American people)..

wow so you insult the guy then claim you are easily fooled. nice.

"then claim you are easily fooled"
Try reading that again, champ. (Maybe also take the advice I gave your friend too!)

 

[agent00f]

Most people I know who voted for Trump aren't worried about minorities taking good jobs, but that good jobs are becoming fewer to begin with. Certainly an incoming crowd from abroad might be a concern to some, but if I said blacks worried that their spawn might not do as well under Trump I'd be labeled a condescending racist. These are parents worried about their children's future being shipped overseas.

So why are they overwhelming replying in the affirmative to questions like "minority X is getting ahead at the expense of whites"? Particularly for trump even within the GOP field? Seems rather obvious that even the conservative establishment greatly underestimate the sheer level of these sentiments; had Romney or McCain gone full bore with birtherism and such as their successor had they might well have won like he did. Despite what many here like to think, Trump is not stupid and in fact rather cunning as a politician; evidently more so than people who believe he's dumb.

Even as someone incredibly cynical about the amount of racism under the surface in this country, the predictive power of these question on political leaning surprised me.

The disdain for their concerns cost the Democrats dearly. Trump is a fraud of course but doesn't give the sense that the children of the majority are something to be put down. Frankly both sides are alike in too many ways. It's merely who they pander to that is different.

Well we were bound to get the President we deserved and we did. How sad.

The democrat aren't exactly going to pander to white nationalist ideals.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well clearly you haven't been paying attention. Trump doesn't care about policy, hence the lack of any detail or even an agenda as you admitted. Therefore, so long as repubs kiss his ring he will sign whatever they throw his way.
I wonder what your definition of McCain's reelection for the umpteenth time would be called, you certainly can't call it anti establishment.



I look forward to four years of utterly retarded, fact free comments from trump supporters.

I hope you look forward to being called out for helping Trump with the "it doesn't matter about Clinton as long as she wins" attitude, which in the aggregate helped him to win.

Clinton supporters had to have her and not everyone who didn't support Trump agreed. That is a fatal lack of vision.

Well, it's going to be interesting seeing the whining and finger pointing. Maybe enough of us will not really care about those types and can use this as an opportunity in spite of the party hacks. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Double Trouble]

The typical narrative is that these are people dispossessed of a good job by globalization or basically have little to lose so they're willing to roll the dice with trump. The data shows they already have the good jobs, and are terribly worried brown people are coming to take them.

Sounds like pure bullshit to me. I make more than $70k, but I'm extremely concerned about the economy. The economy affects us all. I don't live hand to mouth or paycheck to paycheck, but the economy is high on my list of important issues. In this election I don't know if I gave any big preference on economy to either candidate though, so it didn't sway me.

 

[Exterous]

RBG is going to die on the bench so Scalia's slot may be the limit of the damage.

Hopefully

Lastly, she was too honest.

I can think of a lot of faults but that isn't one

A minority of Australian bogans -> low socioeconomic, uneducated and low skilled workers. Your average Ameritard is our minority.

And a minority voted for Trump. Apparently you don't understand basic words like 'average'.

 

[Zstream]

The typical narrative is that these are people dispossessed of a good job by globalization or basically have little to lose so they're willing to roll the dice with trump. The data shows they already have the good jobs, and are terribly worried brown people are coming to take them.

Take your white guilt and shove it!

 

[greatnoob]

And a minority voted for Trump. Apparently you don't understand basic words like 'average'.

Well I haven't looked into the numbers myself but if it was truly a minority (can you provide a percentage or source just so I can fact check?) then I'll admit my fault and retract my use of the term "average Ameritard" to "minority of looney Americans"

 

[Kazukian]

greatnoob, as much as I respect your views, I took micro and macro economics, pulled an A+ and voted for Trump.

 

[agent00f]

Sounds like pure bullshit to me. I make more than $70k, but I'm extremely concerned about the economy. The economy affects us all. I don't live hand to mouth or paycheck to paycheck, but the economy is high on my list of important issues. In this election I don't know if I gave any big preference on economy to either candidate though, so it didn't sway me.

You're correct that the typical narrative of the downtrodden white guy is bullshit; they're people like you, who overwhelmingly answer in the affirmative to questions like "are minority x getting ahead at the expense of whites".

Take your white guilt and shove it!

No great surprise facts make you angry.

 

[Exterous]

(can you provide a percentage or source just so I can fact check?)

It strikes me as incredibly intellectually lazy that you can't be bothered to google something you already have a position on.

Edit: I guess I should say that this is baring any recounts that may or may not happen and or some very unlikely last minute swings