So who is suprised to see the x1950's extra bandwidth not do so much?

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Ackmed


See a trend here? Lots of issues were addressed, and if not "fixed", at least made better. No the speed is not that much faster, when did they say it was supposed to? This was not supposed to be some overhaul, just a tweak of an already fast card. Just as has been done in the past. GF3, GF3Ti. 9700 Pro, 9800 Pro. 5900U, 5950U. Its been going on for years. I guess you just cant make everyone happy. In fact, you cant make some people happy at all.

Good point Ackmed! GF3 Ti - god I remember that card, it was such a beauty when it came out! I remember everyone I knew (including myself) got a GF3 Ti200 when they were released - the quintessential price/performance champ!

ATI's launch today is a bit reminiscent of that, with the X1950XTX at the top, and the X1900XT 256MB - looking to be a value champ - soon to follow.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Actually you might wanna read this one

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/378/1/

Nice gains there, and in case you're wondering why the XFX 7900 falls so much behind, its because they always use HQ mode with nvidia cards

Im starting to like Legitreviews more and more

legit review doesn't even do high res benchmarking with AA or AF :*( its useless

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Actually you might wanna read this one

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/378/1/

Nice gains there, and in case you're wondering why the XFX 7900 falls so much behind, its because they always use HQ mode with nvidia cards

Im starting to like Legitreviews more and more

legit review doesn't even do high res benchmarking with AA or AF :*( its useless

They use 4x AA/16x AF in everything but Q4

Also, Ati is faster at AA so the dif increases even more

 

[Munky]

Here's another review - Text

Use google to translate from German. Note that they used HQ driver settings, and whenever AA is enabled, they also enabled TRAA/AAA. The x1950 provides some nice gains in games like HL2, Quake 4, and Riddick, enough to put it ahead of the 7900gtx in games where the x1900xtx usually lagged behind.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not that you would buy a high end card, let alone two of them. You're on a budget PC...

Actually, my PC was high end when I put it together. I am looking to build a new high end system in the next few months, so a card like this would be something for me to look at. So I guess that would make you a liar.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: josh6079
The X1950XTX was originally projected to have an MSRP of $400 IIRC. Ever since the news of the September availability, the MSRP was increased to $450 to cover ATI's revenue.

that's still only $50 more than the MSRP of the X1900XTX. are you saying that the MSRP of the XTX should have dropped $50 as well?

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not that you would buy a high end card, let alone two of them. You're on a budget PC...

Actually, my PC was high end when I put it together. I am looking to build a new high end system in the next few months, so a card like this would be something for me to look at. So I guess that would make you a liar.

Heh, nice try. Your PC is low end, its ok. Dont get all upset about it.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Actually you might wanna read this one

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/378/1/

Nice gains there, and in case you're wondering why the XFX 7900 falls so much behind, its because they always use HQ mode with nvidia cards

Im starting to like Legitreviews more and more

Nice to see reviews actually use settings that we would as well. And settigns that put NV's IQ closer to ATi's. B3D had this to say about driver settings;

Lastly -- and it's something Beyond3D feels strongly about -- we urge all buyers thinking about a graphics SKU at the high-end of the market to consider changing away from the default image quality settings in the driver for their hardware, and especially for hardware with as plentiful memory bandwidth and raw performance as Radeon X1950 XTX. If the IHV won't do it for you in the driver on install, showing them conclusively that you'll do so regardless of what they set as a reasonable IQ default would go a long way to advancing the out-of-the-box and overall image quality experience going forward. It's about time final pixel quality took the top seat in consumer graphics, rather than performance, which we come to assume significant advances in by default, and expect the IHVs to deliver on without question.

(Bolded mine)

Disappointed? Not hardly. Would I have liked more performance? No dobut. Refreshes generally do not give a huge increase in performance. From the GF3/GF3Ti, 9700Pro/9800Pro/5900U/5950U, the list goes on and on.

Lets take a look at a few points.

1. Performance is a little better, say a few percent, more in some cases. CF master cards, are now the same speed as the normal XTX. And the same price, of $449.
2. People complained that the X1900's were not HDCP compliant, the X1950 is.
3. People complained that the X1900's consumed a lot of wattage, the X1950 dropped usage, by about 20w. Not a huge amount, but some. In CF, that would be about 40w less.
4. People complained that the X1900's ran "hot". The X1950's run cooler now, about 10c less now under load.
5. People complained about the noise from the X1900's. The X1950's run much quieter now.
6. People complained that prices were going too high. The X1900XTX was a MSRP of $650, the X1950XTX has a MSRP of $450. Thats $200 less, for a little more performance, lower power consumption, cooler running, quieter running, etc.

Why would I be disappointed if the card costs $200 less than the last launch, and is better in every aspect.?

See a trend here? Lots of issues were addressed, and if not "fixed", at least made better. No the speed is not that much faster, when did they say it was supposed to? This was not supposed to be some overhaul, just a tweak of an already fast card. Just as has been done in the past. GF3, GF3Ti. 9700 Pro, 9800 Pro. 5900U, 5950U. Its been going on for years. I guess you just cant make everyone happy. In fact, you cant make some people happy at all.

While not totally on the X1950 subject, two other cards did launch. People complained about the lack of a true budget card, at the $100 price point. ATi now has a few cards that are pretty good performers at that price range.

NV still has some viable solutions. Not everyone cares are IQ, sadly. Or even look at minimum frames in reviews. The G80 is rumored to be out in about two months, Im sure they'll have a good card. Hopefully with better AF, HDR+AA, and less shimmering. Funny that a certain someone used to rag on ATi for their "2+ year old tech" with the X800's, and now NV is in the same spot. Heh.

All valid points. I am surprised by the X1950's answering to a lot of normal X1900 faults. It is a great refresh, perhaps I got too ahead of myself and imagined it performing better as I'm sure others did with the array leaked reviews. I shouldn't be so dissapointed when I consider everything else they fixed.

that's still only $50 more than the MSRP of the X1900XTX. are you saying that the MSRP of the XTX should have dropped $50 as well?

No. I'm saying that ATI originally planned an August release at an MSRP of $400. Since they decided to paper launch in August and supply in September they incorrectly predicted their revenue and as a result raised the MSRP to $450 to cover it. We are paying for their lateness.

While the MSRP is incredible for what it does, I would have rather them left it at $400 than raise it to $450. It is a better card than an X1900XT(X), but is also more expensive. ATI has three cards now that perform very closely to eachother and carry a price difference from $100~$120--from an X1900XT to an X1950XTX. If someone isn't so concerned about power consumption and quietness, an X1900XT will do great and is right next to this refresh.

I think ATI has handed us a great refresh in terms of design improvement over its older siblings. For someone who doesn't already have an X1900 this is a great choice. For those who may want to experience better AF, HDR+AA, but worse AA this also would serve as an exceptional choice for a high-end buyer.

Competition is great :thumbsup:

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: secretanchitman

Originally posted by: gersson

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Crusader
Dear Toolbag,

Everyone else is disappointed to.

You just want this to be some great victory cuz you support ATI endlessly, troll.

I was looking forward to this card to be my next ATI card to try out.

And BTW you got me wrong, what I'm saying is that I assumed ATI knew better than to bother going GDDR4 if it only gave these paltry gains.

The single fastest card is the GX2.
Most of us were looking for a GX2 match, or killer. But its not.

Single GPU, sure.. ? But who cares about single GPU vs dual GPU? :disgust: Big deal.
Its all price performance and this thing still loses.

You still have to go the GX2 to get outside the X1950XTX/X1900XTX/7900GTX realm of performance.

Love the eternal hatred in your sig for Rollo BTW. Get a life you simpleton. Time to move on.

Still shaking your fist at ATI in the hopes of taking Rollo's place on the AEG "Hardware Review" panel I see. Good luck with that one.

Why don't we just do a quick search and see how "disappointed" all the people who have actually REVIEWED the card are?

______________________________________
DriverHeaven - Heavenly Hardware Gold Award

Conclusion - For anyone who doesn't own an X1900XT or 7900GTX the X1950XTX is a card well worth considering. It delivers low noise with great performance and a very thorough set of features although it is by no means a massive performance jump over anything currently available in stores.


HardOCP - Editor's Choice Gold Award

The Bottom Line - ATI has proven they are a leader and not a follower with the X1950 XTX. ATI has released the world?s first consumer 3D graphics card with GDDR4 memory clocked at the highest ever stock speed that chews through games when it comes to high definition gaming. Memory bandwidth looks to one again be the defining factor in 3D performance. With a re-designed heatsink/fan unit, faster memory, and lowered price, the ATI Radeon X1950 XTX and CrossFire Edition are both serious 3D gaming video cards for the hardcore that offer some value over NVIDIA?s more expensive 7950 GX2. ATI?s CrossFire dual GPU gaming platform looks to have just grown up.


Bjorn3D

Conclusion - The X1950XTX might not be the most impressive or interesting product if you already got a X1900XTX. As a refresh product it is mean to appeal to those who do not buy the first card in a generation. As such it is a very nice card with an appealing price. The new cooler works very well and hopefully means quieter systems even when running the cards in Crossfire mode.


HardwareZone 4.5 out of 5

Conclusion - Just when we had thought that the battle for high-end graphics supremacy has reached an unofficial ceasefire with NVIDIA seemingly winning over the enthusiasts with both performance (the 'SLI-on-a-card' GeForce 7950 GX2) and mostly better value, ATI has revived its challenge with a late rally. While work continues from both sides on their respective next generation processors, the competition has intensified with ATI's plans to release new products aimed squarely at NVIDIA's best performers.


Hexus - Xtreme Editors Choice

With a quiet cooler, GDDR4 memory and reduced power consumption, the X1950 XTX makes a very appealing card. If you're already running high-end GeForce 7 or Radeon X1000 series hardware, then you're best staying put, but if you're in the market for a new high-end solution, the Radeon X1950 XTX is a clear winner on multiple fronts.


HotHardware

With a proposed MSRP of $449, the Radeon X1950 XTX's price should lands somewhere in between the GeForce 7900 GTX and GeForce 7950 GX2. Looking at our benchmark results and accounting for its 2GHz GDDR4 memory and redesigned cooler, that's a fair position to be in. The Radeon X1950 XTX out-muscled a 7900 GTX most of the time, and traded victories with the GX2. The Radeon X1950 XTX is a strong performer, and is arguably the fastest single-GPU card we've ever tested.


techPowerUP - Editor's Choice

First of all, the X1950 XTX is not such a big upgrade from an X1900 when it comes to performance. This is more of a product refresh where existing weak points have been addressed. Most important, the new cooling system which offers quieter operation and lower temperatures.
The other major change is the move to GDDR4 which runs cooler and faster. Being able to run 1000 MHz real memory clock gives a nice performance boost. About 8% in the benchmarks. While this is not huge it is still nice if you consider that the same generation GPU is used on the board.
NVIDIA will not be happy to see such a product out on the streets going for $449. I think this card will be very interesting to people who are using an older card like an X800, maybe with AGP. If you are considering an upgrade to Conroe, PCI-Express and DDR2 the Radeon X1950 XTX might be just the right video card for you with its excellent price/performance ratio.
______________________________________




But I suppose you'll go with the Inq since they weren't impressed with it.

Crusader and the Inquirer. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

This post is already the ownage of the month, and I will gladly add to it...

So Crusader, arent you gonna brag about how much less noise/power consumption/heat the new 1950 has? I thought it was a major selling point for 7900 GTX when every nv fan realized it couldnt even beat the x1900, nor match it IQ wise!! :roll:

Double standards rule

Total ownage. Nvidia trolls, you're losing your wit.

huh? all i see is that "its a good card if you dont have a 7900GT/GTX/GX2 already." "its not such a big upgrade from an X1900 when it comes to performance."

all ati did was address "issues" that plagued the X1800/X1900 cards.

well...that is what nvidia is doing with the 7950 series cards.

who cares if ati beats nvidia...its called competition people.

the extra memory bandwidth really helps with HDR with AA but i dought we could compare since Nvidia doesn't HDR with AA unless we do HL2 benchmarking. If you have a Crossfire x1900XTX + setup you can play games like BF2 , Days of defeat source and Half life 2 @ 1600x1200/1080p 14xApdative AA/16x AF on all high , i dare you to do with a SLI 7900GTX with 16x AA and see if you can the same playable frame rate. Many Review don't even do high Quality benchmarking or anything here than 4xAA. Why would you spend $400 + on a graphic to play at 720p res :?

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not that you would buy a high end card, let alone two of them. You're on a budget PC...

Actually, my PC was high end when I put it together. I am looking to build a new high end system in the next few months, so a card like this would be something for me to look at. So I guess that would make you a liar.

Heh, nice try. Your PC is low end, its ok. Dont get all upset about it.

Can you read? Some don't have the money (or maybe some just don't waste it) to spend on every high-end product when it comes out from every company that makes it. You sound like Rollo bashing others for not being able to have the same hardware benchmark sites have. (I wasn't hear to read it myself, but I've heard numerous stories) Many periodically build a rig--once a year or two. You just blow holes in your wallet everytime a new tech comes around (which is fine, it's your money) but it doesn't warrant bashing others for not being able to do what you can do (or not choosing to).

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not that you would buy a high end card, let alone two of them. You're on a budget PC...

Actually, my PC was high end when I put it together. I am looking to build a new high end system in the next few months, so a card like this would be something for me to look at. So I guess that would make you a liar.

Heh, nice try. Your PC is low end, its ok. Dont get all upset about it.

wow, that was one of the most idiotic comments you have ever made.

im sorry that everyone cant afford two $500 video cards :roll: Dont get all upset about it

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not that you would buy a high end card, let alone two of them. You're on a budget PC...

Actually, my PC was high end when I put it together. I am looking to build a new high end system in the next few months, so a card like this would be something for me to look at. So I guess that would make you a liar.

Wreckage is going red!! :Q

Personal harrassment aside, I think this is a nice fix up of ati's weaknesses. Still would have been happier with 80mm. But a nicer cooler and more speed with less power useage, so whats not to like? Except where are these dx 10 beasts?

 

[CKXP]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not that you would buy a high end card, let alone two of them. You're on a budget PC...

Actually, my PC was high end when I put it together. I am looking to build a new high end system in the next few months, so a card like this would be something for me to look at. So I guess that would make you a liar.

Heh, nice try. Your PC is low end, its ok. Dont get all upset about it.

ironically, that reminds me of something Rollo would say.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not that you would buy a high end card, let alone two of them. You're on a budget PC...

Actually, my PC was high end when I put it together. I am looking to build a new high end system in the next few months, so a card like this would be something for me to look at. So I guess that would make you a liar.

Wreckage is going red!! :Q

Personal harrassment aside, I think this is a nice fix up of ati's weaknesses. Still would have been happier with 80mm. But a nicer cooler and more speed with less power useage, so whats not to like? Except where are these dx 10 beasts?

It could happen. I like the card, I just don't like the price. In fact I almost bought a X800XL on another forum (I'm short an AGP card) but someone from this forum beat me to it.

Heck even Josh, 5150 and I are starting to agree! :shocked:

The end of the world is coming...

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
It could happen. I like the card, I just don't like the price. In fact I almost bought a X800XL on another forum (I'm short an AGP card) but someone from this forum beat me to it.

Heck even Josh, 5150 and I are starting to agree! :shocked:

The end of the world is coming...

Who said I was blindly biased in the first place? I (and Joker, nitro, Ackmed--I don't know why he's turning into Cockmed) have all experienced both recent feature sets from Nvidia/ATI and simply know the pitfalls of both. I know Nvidia fans may be inclined to try ATI parts no matter how sunk in their patriotism. Curiosity kills the wallet, and sometimes people just weigh what they want most. For some it's Nvidia, for others it's ATI.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: Wreckage
It could happen. I like the card, I just don't like the price. In fact I almost bought a X800XL on another forum (I'm short an AGP card) but someone from this forum beat me to it.

Heck even Josh, 5150 and I are starting to agree! :shocked:

The end of the world is coming...

Who said I was blindly biased in the first place? I (and Joker, nitro, Ackmed--I don't know why he's turning into Cockmed) have all experienced both recent feature sets from Nvidia/ATI and simply know the pitfalls of both. I know Nvidia fans may be inclined to try ATI parts no matter how sunk in their patriotism. Curiosity kills the wallet, and sometimes people just weigh what they want most. For some it's Nvidia, for others it's ATI.

Well, maybe I just did not realize how personal people like Akugami and Akmed take this. To me they are just parts like anything else. Soon they will be in the recycle bin. I make no mistake that either company owes me nothing, and probably does not know or care that I exist.

So if you truly think I'm biased, then send me a nice AGP ATI card.....please.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Actually you might wanna read this one

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/378/1/

Nice gains there, and in case you're wondering why the XFX 7900 falls so much behind, its because they always use HQ mode with nvidia cards

Im starting to like Legitreviews more and more

Nice

Where's the 7950GX2?

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Actually you might wanna read this one

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/378/1/

Nice gains there, and in case you're wondering why the XFX 7900 falls so much behind, its because they always use HQ mode with nvidia cards

Im starting to like Legitreviews more and more

Nice

Where's the 7950GX2?

They're comparing single cards

EDIT:

Well, maybe I just did not realize how personal people like Akugami and Akmed take this.

I don't think Ackmed is taking things personally, I just think that he enjoys arguing, even if he's wrong. (Everyone is sometimes and adults know when to admit it).
You argue as much as he does and, while I'm not a priest when it comes to these kinds of things at all, I think both of you just do it to piss eachother off.

Soon they will be in the recycle bin.

So will those who act similarly.

So if you truly think I'm biased, then send me a nice AGP ATI card.....please.

I've got a PCI-E ATI card you can have.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Without a doubt the main problem with this card is the x1900xt going for 280 msrp.. thats not only a better price/performance ratio than the x1950xtx, but it will leave any other card competing in the same price in the dust (7950GT comes to mind, and its at 299)

I think theres a big hole in current/upcoming pricing... as good as the x1950xtx may be, it just does not make up for a 450$ msrp when compared to the 280$ x1900xt, not to mention, who would buy a 450$ 7900 GTX now, which is slower and has less features? If the 7950 GX2 drops to about 450$ THEN that will be the high end card worth having, but at 550$ no thanks

Edit - It feels as if directx10 pricing is already upon us, but the cards arent..

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Without a doubt the main problem with this card is the x1900xt going for 280 msrp.. thats not only a better price/performance ratio than the x1950xtx, but it will leave any other card competing in the same price in the dust (7950GT comes to mind, and its at 299)

I think theres a big hole in current/upcoming pricing... as good as the x1950xtx may be, it just does not make up for a 450$ msrp when compared to the 280$ x1900xt, not to mention, who would buy a 450$ 7900 GTX now, which is slower and has less features? If the 7950 GX2 drops to about 450$ THEN that will be the high end card worth having, but at 550$ no thanks

Edit - It feels as if directx10 pricing is already upon us, but the cards arent..

QFT. That is exactly the kind of ATI vs. ATI I'm talking about. The X1900XT is a beast of a card and priced at a steal. Overclock her as much as you can and you are only behind a X1950XTX by a couple frames 99% of the time.

 

[Extelleron]

In the end the X1950XTX is pretty disappointing performance wise IMO. For the price, it performs very well against nVidia's cards, including the 7950GX2, however it can't compete with ATI's own "lower-end" selections- the X1900XTX and the X1900XT. With X1900XT's going for under $300, and possibilities of the X1900XT 256MB hitting $250-275, there's not much real reason to spend $450 on an X1950XTX. Even an X1900XT is only 10% slower (AT BEST) and meanwhile it's $150~ cheaper.

Overall, people like me who already own X1900XT's or XTX's are not going to upgrade to X1950, either. No way is it justified to spend hundreds of dollars for a few percent increase in performance. So, ATI is not going to get people who already bought X1900's to upgrade. I know for sure that I'll be waiting until R600 to upgrade.

In the end the X1950XTX is disappointing, and I think it's clear that memory bandwidth was NOT the limiting factor on X1900XTX performance. I think If ATI had been able to raise the core clock AND the memory clock, they might have seen better performance. However, that clearly didn't happen.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
In the end the X1950XTX is pretty disappointing performance wise IMO. For the price, it performs very well against nVidia's cards, including the 7950GX2, however it can't compete with ATI's own "lower-end" selections- the X1900XTX and the X1900XT. With X1900XT's going for under $300, and possibilities of the X1900XT 256MB hitting $250-275, there's not much real reason to spend $450 on an X1950XTX. Even an X1900XT is only 10% slower (AT BEST) and meanwhile it's $150~ cheaper.

Overall, people like me who already own X1900XT's or XTX's are not going to upgrade to X1950, either. No way is it justified to spend hundreds of dollars for a few percent increase in performance. So, ATI is not going to get people who already bought X1900's to upgrade. I know for sure that I'll be waiting until R600 to upgrade.

In the end the X1950XTX is disappointing, and I think it's clear that memory bandwidth was NOT the limiting factor on X1900XTX performance. I think If ATI had been able to raise the core clock AND the memory clock, they might have seen better performance. However, that clearly didn't happen.

I thought so as well at first, but when you weigh in what this card really is, what problems/cons it fixed with the X1900 seires, what new technology it introduced, and the starting MSRP that incorporates all of that it isn't disappointing.

I'll probably pick one up so I can overclock the core AND the memory more. Overclocking is fun for me and I'm not hessitant to void warrantees (or not void them depending on the brand), burn $500 worth of video hardware, and spend hours optimizing performance in order to see what it has to offer. If or when I get one, I'll post some scores.

 

[tvdang7]

i thought they were shrinking the die to get high core speeds wtf happened? i was expecting like 700-750 core.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Without a doubt the main problem with this card is the x1900xt going for 280 msrp.. thats not only a better price/performance ratio than the x1950xtx, but it will leave any other card competing in the same price in the dust (7950GT comes to mind, and its at 299)

I think theres a big hole in current/upcoming pricing... as good as the x1950xtx may be, it just does not make up for a 450$ msrp when compared to the 280$ x1900xt, not to mention, who would buy a 450$ 7900 GTX now, which is slower and has less features? If the 7950 GX2 drops to about 450$ THEN that will be the high end card worth having, but at 550$ no thanks

Edit - It feels as if directx10 pricing is already upon us, but the cards arent..

QFT. That is exactly the kind of ATI vs. ATI I'm talking about. The X1900XT is a beast of a card and priced at a steal. Overclock her as much as you can and you are only behind a X1950XTX by a couple frames 99% of the time.

I guess Ati cant afford to sell GDDR4 equipped cards any cheaper without a loss..

Video card pricing at the moment looks alot like CPU... the benefit for paying premium on high end products just isnt there.. a slightly Oc'd midrange will do just the same and cost half while at it

 

[josh6079]

I guess Ati cant afford to sell GDDR4 equipped cards any cheaper without a loss..

Video card pricing at the moment looks alot like CPU... the benefit for paying premium on high end products just isnt there.. a slightly Oc'd midrange will do just the same and cost half while at it

:thumbsup: