So who is going to give up meat?

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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,405
19,783
146
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: DrPizza
:eek: *whew* Thankfully slightly over 50% still constitutes "the majority." :p
I saved you... just barely. :p

But remember, a large portion of the 5?% goes to pet food and feed for non-meat producing livestock.
Who said Fido wasn't meat for human consumption? And where does the 20% foreign stuff go. Probably a lot goes to animal feed. Still, DrPizza would be better off saying "plurality" than "majority".

If it isn't used for or consumed as meat, it doesn't count for this topic, silly. :p
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,026
2,879
136
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarian for 4 years now.
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: interchange
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarian for 4 years now.
It's not evolution you twit, it's stupidity. Look at your ****** teeth. Do you think you were meant to eat only vegetables? When nature decides that we should all eat veggies, it'll make meat taste bad, and will ensure that we no longer have the teeth for it. In the meanwhile, I'll be the omnivore that my genetics intended.

Don't try to force your holier-than-thou practices on everybody else.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe


Wow.. It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are. There is a big ol' heap of evidence that the current accelerated climate change is anthropogenic. Or is it coincidence that fossil fuel contributions to atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution has coincided perfectly with warming?

Speculation is not evidence. And correlation does not prove causation.

Tell me, did humans bring on all the rapid climate changes before the industrial revolution? How about the ones that occured before humans existed? Did we cause those too?

It was all those flatulent neanderthals.
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: DrPizza

2. It's 2006. If you don't believe in global warming, you're an idiot. It seems that there are only 2 realistic views on it anymore: One - the human impact is insignificant compared to normal cycles, and we don't know enough about global weather patterns to know how we're affecting the. Two - camp one is understating the problem. 99.9% of scientists believe in global warming; most of the other .1% are paid by industries directly affected by measures taken to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

Your point 2.1 IS the argument against the general consensus of global warming. But you lump it into the people that agree with the general consensus of global warming. The general consensus of global warming is the belief that CO2 from human use IS the cause of the climate change. I personally disagree with that bold claim; we really don't have enough evidence yet to state that as a fact. Thus, I disagree with the bolded statement above - I argue against people who believe in global warming (as commonly defined in the bolded sentence). Of course the earth's surface air is heating up. I don't deny that. I deny that we know for a fact what the cause is. So, please, don't call me an idiot.

Read again. You apparently *do* believe in global warming (I bolded that part), but you're among those who disagree that humans (ie CO2 emissions) are a significant cause of it. Thus, you'd fall into the first group who believes in global warming.

Like I said, you'd be an idiot to say the globe isn't heating up. There's FAR too much evidence supporting this conclusion. The only argument is the cause and the ability of humans to affect the process.

Wow.. It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are. There is a big ol' heap of evidence that the current accelerated climate change is anthropogenic. Or is it coincidence that fossil fuel contributions to atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution has coincided perfectly with warming? Maybe laypersons in denial should be getting grants since they obviously know more about geology than geologists, more about paleoclimate than paleoclimatologists, more about climatology than climatologists, and more about biology than biologists.
I guess it's not surprising considering we live in a country where science is demonized and non science is taught as fact in schools.

Not saying I'm a believer or not, but, saw this and had run across this article and several others as well as programs on Discovery channel and History channel which back this article and those like them.

Globaly Renowned Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe
"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
By Thomas Harris
Monday, June 12, 2006


"Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate experts actually think about the science of his movie?

Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his film, are commanding public attention."

But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast majority of scientists" Gore cites?

No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of them actually work in the climate field.

Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the causes of global climate change," explains former University of Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where they conduct their studies."

This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate change cause experts, only climate impact experts.

So we have a smaller fraction.

But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are actually making forecasts."

We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest.

Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never hear:

Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"

Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun.

Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is grounded, it has to break off in beautiful ice cascades. If the water is deep enough icebergs will form."

Dr. Wibjörn Karlén, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden, admits, "Some small areas in the Antarctic Peninsula have broken up recently, just like it has done back in time. The temperature in this part of Antarctica has increased recently, probably because of a small change in the position of the low pressure systems."

But Karlén clarifies that the 'mass balance' of Antarctica is positive - more snow is accumulating than melting off. As a result, Ball explains, there is an increase in the 'calving' of icebergs as the ice dome of Antarctica is growing and flowing to the oceans. When Greenland and Antarctica are assessed together, "their mass balance is considered to possibly increase the sea level by 0.03 mm/year - not much of an effect," Karlén concludes.

The Antarctica has survived warm and cold events over millions of years. A meltdown is simply not a realistic scenario in the foreseeable future.

Gore tells us in the film, "Starting in 1970, there was a precipitous drop-off in the amount and extent and thickness of the Arctic ice cap." This is misleading, according to Ball: "The survey that Gore cites was a single transect across one part of the Arctic basin in the month of October during the 1960s when we were in the middle of the cooling period. The 1990 runs were done in the warmer month of September, using a wholly different technology."

Karlén explains that a paper published in 2003 by University of Alaska professor Igor Polyakov shows that, the region of the Arctic where rising temperature is supposedly endangering polar bears showed fluctuations since 1940 but no overall temperature rise. "For several published records it is a decrease for the last 50 years," says Karlén

Dr. Dick Morgan, former advisor to the World Meteorological Organization and climatology researcher at University of Exeter, U.K. gives the details, "There has been some decrease in ice thickness in the Canadian Arctic over the past 30 years but no melt down. The Canadian Ice Service records show that from 1971-1981 there was average, to above average, ice thickness. From 1981-1982 there was a sharp decrease of 15% but there was a quick recovery to average, to slightly above average, values from 1983-1995. A sharp drop of 30% occurred again 1996-1998 and since then there has been a steady increase to reach near normal conditions since 2001."

Concerning Gore's beliefs about worldwide warming, Morgan points out that, in addition to the cooling in the NW Atlantic, massive areas of cooling are found in the North and South Pacific Ocean; the whole of the Amazon Valley; the north coast of South America and the Caribbean; the eastern Mediterranean, Black Sea, Caucasus and Red Sea; New Zealand and even the Ganges Valley in India. Morgan explains, "Had the IPCC used the standard parameter for climate change (the 30 year average) and used an equal area projection, instead of the Mercator (which doubled the area of warming in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Ocean) warming and cooling would have been almost in balance."

Gore's point that 200 cities and towns in the American West set all time high temperature records is also misleading according to Dr. Roy Spencer, Principal Research Scientist at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. "It is not unusual for some locations, out of the thousands of cities and towns in the U.S., to set all-time records," he says. "The actual data shows that overall, recent temperatures in the U.S. were not unusual."

Carter does not pull his punches about Gore's activism, "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science."

In April sixty of the world's leading experts in the field asked Prime Minister Harper to order a thorough public review of the science of climate change, something that has never happened in Canada. Considering what's at stake - either the end of civilization, if you believe Gore, or a waste of billions of dollars, if you believe his opponents - it seems like a reasonable request.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: interchange
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarian for 4 years now.


Assuming we do, what do we do with domesticated meat animals? Do we really put cows in the zoo or something??
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
Originally posted by: interchange
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarian for 4 years now.

Evolution? LOL! Show some facts that prove humans are evolutionizing into vegetarians....

 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
No worries, in a few years we can grow muscle cells like we grow plants in heatboxes. Would be the end of wasting all that energy on growing cows pigs and all that.
Untill then, screw the planet!
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,983
1,179
126
Um, Cows burps/farts are far worse for the Ozone then my car. The way I figure it, by eating Double Double's from In-N-Out I'm doing my small part to help combat global warming.

And while I've never seen any scientific proof that Chickens release any toxic gases that eat away at the Ozone, I'll consume a decent amount of Fried Chicken just incase.

in all seriousness, if I gave up meat I'd die. The way my body works, a 1/2 lb cheese burger + fries + a coke = I'll still hungry. I'd have to eat like 50 salads a day to maintain. I love Salads but I gotta have my meat.



 

Electric Amish

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
23,578
1
0
quote:
2. It seems that there are only 2 realistic views on it anymore: One - the human impact is insignificant compared to normal cycles, and we don't know enough about global weather patterns to know how we're affecting the.


Your point 2.1 IS the argument against the general consensus of global warming. But you lump it into the people that agree with the general consensus of global warming. The general consensus of global warming is the belief that CO2 from human use IS the cause of the climate change. I personally disagree with that bold claim; we really don't have enough evidence yet to state that as a fact. Thus, I disagree with the bolded statement above - I argue against people who believe in global warming (as commonly defined in the bolded sentence). Of course the earth's surface air is heating up. I don't deny that. I deny that we know for a fact what the cause is. So, please, don't call me an idiot.

I totally agree. That's my argument about Global Warming. We have no proof that anything we do makes any difference in the cycle of the Earth. My gut feeling says we don't.

 

mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe


Wow.. It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are. There is a big ol' heap of evidence that the current accelerated climate change is anthropogenic. Or is it coincidence that fossil fuel contributions to atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution has coincided perfectly with warming?

Speculation is not evidence. And correlation does not prove causation.

Tell me, did humans bring on all the rapid climate changes before the industrial revolution? How about the ones that occured before humans existed? Did we cause those too?

Going by your logic, since I had a car accident because my tire blew out, no subsequent accidents were my fault either.
Climate shifts caused by the Melankovich cycle is slow, and it takes a catastrophic event to cause a rapid change. Ice cores show perfect correlation between greenhouse gas spikes caused by volcanism and climate change. Just because all climate change isn't caused by humans doesn't mean that no climate change is caused by humans...
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: interchange
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarian for 4 years now.
It's not evolution you twit, it's stupidity. Look at your ****** teeth. Do you think you were meant to eat only vegetables? When nature decides that we should all eat veggies, it'll make meat taste bad, and will ensure that we no longer have the teeth for it. In the meanwhile, I'll be the omnivore that my genetics intended.

Don't try to force your holier-than-thou practices on everybody else.

We were designed to be plant eaters. Monkeys these days rarely eat meat, but they don't mind eating it when they find it. And you can clearly see that our teeth weren't designed for meat, because we have the teeth of a herbiwore.

But it's assumed that the fact that we switched to a diet consisting of meat helped our brain evolve. So eating meat is not a bad thing. Especialy when it tastes that good!

Btw, to produce one kilo of meat, you use 72 times the amount of energy in the meat itself. With plants it's like 2-10 times. Don't rememebr the details.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,983
1,179
126
Originally posted by: Electric Amish
quote:
2. It seems that there are only 2 realistic views on it anymore: One - the human impact is insignificant compared to normal cycles, and we don't know enough about global weather patterns to know how we're affecting the.


Your point 2.1 IS the argument against the general consensus of global warming. But you lump it into the people that agree with the general consensus of global warming. The general consensus of global warming is the belief that CO2 from human use IS the cause of the climate change. I personally disagree with that bold claim; we really don't have enough evidence yet to state that as a fact. Thus, I disagree with the bolded statement above - I argue against people who believe in global warming (as commonly defined in the bolded sentence). Of course the earth's surface air is heating up. I don't deny that. I deny that we know for a fact what the cause is. So, please, don't call me an idiot.

I totally agree. That's my argument about Global Warming. We have no proof that anything we do makes any difference in the cycle of the Earth. My gut feeling says we don't.


I tend to agree, but I will say this, if we are responsible (we are at least, partially if nothing else) that's fate. I believe in a higher power, and I believe regardless of what we do, when our time is up, our time is up. That's not to say we should all litter and be a$$holes to our envoirment. But we can't control nature and it's very wrong of us to think we can actually make enough of a difference to effect the outcome.



 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Who says liberalism isn't just as oppressive as the religious right?



You have a valid point! That is why I am a Centrist.


Ausm
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: EndGame
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: DrPizza



You can ALWAYS find a few scientists that dissent with everyone else. You can even find "scientists" who promote creationism as science/

I'm just guessing you missed this part......

But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast majority of scientists" Gore cites?

No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of them actually work in the climate field.

Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the causes of global climate change," explains former University of Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where they conduct their studies."

This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate change cause experts, only climate impact experts.

So we have a smaller fraction.

But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are actually making forecasts."

We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest.


Do some reading and check out Discovery/History channel......the number of Climatoligists and other scientists whom actually study the causes of climate change are growing quickly.

As the show on Discovery stated, how can these scientists (the ones from Gores movie and ones claiming man is completely causing climate change) explain the scientific proof of lush green meadows and animal life in Greeland and Siberia and the climate change/warming on Mars, Saturn, Jupitor which coincides with climate change/warming taking place here on Earth?
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe


Wow.. It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are. There is a big ol' heap of evidence that the current accelerated climate change is anthropogenic. Or is it coincidence that fossil fuel contributions to atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution has coincided perfectly with warming?

Speculation is not evidence. And correlation does not prove causation.

Tell me, did humans bring on all the rapid climate changes before the industrial revolution? How about the ones that occured before humans existed? Did we cause those too?

Going by your logic, since I had a car accident because my tire blew out, no subsequent accidents were my fault either.
Climate shifts caused by the Melankovich cycle is slow, and it takes a catastrophic event to cause a rapid change. Ice cores show perfect correlation between greenhouse gas spikes caused by volcanism and climate change. Just because all climate change isn't caused by humans doesn't mean that no climate change is caused by humans...

Well, according to most scientists, the earth has been "warming" and the climate has been "shifting" since the 1300's. In between there have been periods of drastic cooling (the mini ice age of the late 1800's that provided midwestern states with snow in June/July) as well as drastic warming periods.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Who says liberalism isn't just as oppressive as the religious right?

I love how people invent these stupid labels and apply them to whoever they like. WTF is "liberalism" anyway? Do you talk to a lot of people call themselves "liberals" or "liberalists", or whatever someone who "practices "liberalism" would be called?

The people trying to get you to give up eating meat to save the planet are called "environmentalists". You can disagree with them all you want, but I get sick of hearing people apply names with no significance or meaning to arbitrary groups of people.

The word "liberal" is typically used to mean "everyone with beleifs noticably different than my own", which a pretty damn useless description.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: EndGame
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe


Wow.. It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are. There is a big ol' heap of evidence that the current accelerated climate change is anthropogenic. Or is it coincidence that fossil fuel contributions to atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution has coincided perfectly with warming?

Speculation is not evidence. And correlation does not prove causation.

Tell me, did humans bring on all the rapid climate changes before the industrial revolution? How about the ones that occured before humans existed? Did we cause those too?

Going by your logic, since I had a car accident because my tire blew out, no subsequent accidents were my fault either.
Climate shifts caused by the Melankovich cycle is slow, and it takes a catastrophic event to cause a rapid change. Ice cores show perfect correlation between greenhouse gas spikes caused by volcanism and climate change. Just because all climate change isn't caused by humans doesn't mean that no climate change is caused by humans...

Well, according to most scientists, the earth has been "warming" and the climate has been "shifting" since the 1300's. In between there have been periods of drastic cooling (the mini ice age of the late 1800's that provided midwestern states with snow in June/July) as well as drastic warming periods.

Please note in your memory that none of the warming has been as extreme as since 1970. And by extreme, i do mean extreme!
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: EndGame
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe


Wow.. It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are. There is a big ol' heap of evidence that the current accelerated climate change is anthropogenic. Or is it coincidence that fossil fuel contributions to atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution has coincided perfectly with warming?

Speculation is not evidence. And correlation does not prove causation.

Tell me, did humans bring on all the rapid climate changes before the industrial revolution? How about the ones that occured before humans existed? Did we cause those too?

Going by your logic, since I had a car accident because my tire blew out, no subsequent accidents were my fault either.
Climate shifts caused by the Melankovich cycle is slow, and it takes a catastrophic event to cause a rapid change. Ice cores show perfect correlation between greenhouse gas spikes caused by volcanism and climate change. Just because all climate change isn't caused by humans doesn't mean that no climate change is caused by humans...

Well, according to most scientists, the earth has been "warming" and the climate has been "shifting" since the 1300's. In between there have been periods of drastic cooling (the mini ice age of the late 1800's that provided midwestern states with snow in June/July) as well as drastic warming periods.

Please note in your memory that none of the warming has been as extreme as since 1970. And by extreme, i do mean extreme!

And in yours, please research more of the "mini ice age" of the late 1800's......I mean don't you think snow and below freezing temps for weeks in June/July in states like Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio is just as exteme as the heat since the 1970's? Oh, and it lasted approx. 40 years and peaked in the late 1880's....
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: Amused
Who says liberalism isn't just as oppressive as the religious right?

I love how people invent these stupid labels and apply them to whoever they like. WTF is "liberalism" anyway? Do you talk to a lot of people call themselves "liberals" or "liberalists", or whatever someone who "practices "liberalism" would be called?

The people trying to get you to give up eating meat to save the planet are called "environmentalists". You can disagree with them all you want, but I get sick of hearing people apply names with no significance or meaning to arbitrary groups of people.

The word "liberal" is typically used to mean "everyone with beleifs noticably different than my own", which a pretty damn useless description.

The word is used by him because he hates anyone with liberal "logics". He's a bigot.
And also has little understanding of how politics works.
Left and righty doesn't really make sense, the scale is supoposed to look like this. Look under "International Chart.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: EndGame
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: EndGame
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe


Wow.. It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are. There is a big ol' heap of evidence that the current accelerated climate change is anthropogenic. Or is it coincidence that fossil fuel contributions to atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution has coincided perfectly with warming?

Speculation is not evidence. And correlation does not prove causation.

Tell me, did humans bring on all the rapid climate changes before the industrial revolution? How about the ones that occured before humans existed? Did we cause those too?

Going by your logic, since I had a car accident because my tire blew out, no subsequent accidents were my fault either.
Climate shifts caused by the Melankovich cycle is slow, and it takes a catastrophic event to cause a rapid change. Ice cores show perfect correlation between greenhouse gas spikes caused by volcanism and climate change. Just because all climate change isn't caused by humans doesn't mean that no climate change is caused by humans...

Well, according to most scientists, the earth has been "warming" and the climate has been "shifting" since the 1300's. In between there have been periods of drastic cooling (the mini ice age of the late 1800's that provided midwestern states with snow in June/July) as well as drastic warming periods.

Please note in your memory that none of the warming has been as extreme as since 1970. And by extreme, i do mean extreme!

And in yours, please research more of the "mini ice age" of the late 1800's......I mean don't you think snow and below freezing temps for weeks in June/July in states like Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio is just as exteme as the heat since the 1970's? Oh, and it lasted approx. 40 years and peaked in the late 1880's....

I know it, no worries. I'm not that much of an idiot :)
 

walrus

Golden Member
Dec 18, 2000
1,544
13
81
I've been a vegetarian for almost half my life, wouldn't eat meat if you paid me.
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: interchange
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarian for 4 years now.
It's not evolution you twit, it's stupidity. Look at your ****** teeth. Do you think you were meant to eat only vegetables? When nature decides that we should all eat veggies, it'll make meat taste bad, and will ensure that we no longer have the teeth for it. In the meanwhile, I'll be the omnivore that my genetics intended.

Don't try to force your holier-than-thou practices on everybody else.

We were designed to be plant eaters. Monkeys these days rarely eat meat, but they don't mind eating it when they find it. And you can clearly see that our teeth weren't designed for meat, because we have the teeth of a herbiwore.

But it's assumed that the fact that we switched to a diet consisting of meat helped our brain evolve. So eating meat is not a bad thing. Especialy when it tastes that good!

Btw, to produce one kilo of meat, you use 72 times the amount of energy in the meat itself. With plants it's like 2-10 times. Don't rememebr the details.
No we don't. We have both kinds of teeth. We have our canines in the front for cutting into meat... and molars for chewing.

Try proving it otherwise.

As far as "using up energy", I don't give a rat's ass. There are no Malthusian limits, so I am not worried.