So who here is buying a Scion tC? :)

[Pulsar]

Very true. The powertrain is basically tried and true - the quality is fit and form issues from what I understand (we do alot of competitive benchmarking where I work).

That said, it isn't typical Toyota - far from it.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: LsDPulsar
Very true. The powertrain is basically tried and true - the quality is fit and form issues from what I understand (we do alot of competitive benchmarking where I work).

That said, it isn't typical Toyota - far from it.

So do you drive a Pulsar or not?😛

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: LsDPulsar
The Scion has been released. Perhaps not the tC model, but I can assure you they run down the same assembly line and will have the same types of quality problems.

In fact, the lower volume vehicle will likely have more problems with the unique components it requires.

But just ignore me. I'm only an auto manufacturing engineer.

Edit: Changed "a" to "an". It's a proven fact engineers can't spell.

Point of information: they don't run down the same assembly line. The tC is not built in the same factory as the xA and xB.

Edit: also, I don't think the tC will be a "lower volume" vehicle. I remember reading that Toyota expects to sell 25,000 of them in the second half of 2004, which would make it the highest-volume Scion vehicle.

 

[nodoubts2k]

I wish!

 

[igowerf]

How roomy are they compared to say... a Corolla or Civic?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: LsDPulsar
Secondly, I hope no one in this thread who is considering buying this car is a programmer who has complained about jobs going to India.

Thirdly, the styling isn't bad. I like something a little more "edgy" which is why I'm going to enjoy the 2005 focus with the new higher horsepower engine.

Why not? If I wanted to support the American worker, I'd buy an American-built Toyota over a foreign-built GM any day.

 

[SoyBoy004]

very corolla-esque but a very nice car!

 

[unclebud]

nissan pulsar? the new ones are very different from what we had back in the day?
pulsar
what is the scion tc japanese counterpart? edit: is there one? hmm
i am playing auto modellista hoping that there's a mazda 3 to unlock...

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PCTweaker5
The spoiler for a WRX is far from pointless. Even on a fwd car the spoiler serves as somewhat of a purpose.

to push the rear wheels to the ground when the car is going >90mph. That's really useful for the average personal FWD vehicle...

Please explain to the masses why you need additional downforce on the rear wheels at 90mph. While you're at it, please explain why a FWD vehicle won't benefit from the same downforce.

Assuming of course the wing actually generates downforce, I'm curious to see why you think a spoiler/wing on a FWD vehicle is so unnecessary.

Putting downforce on the rear end without having additional downforce at the front would make for some pretty wretched handling since the FRONT wheels are the ones that need the most traction since that's where the power is being layed down AFAIK

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Putting downforce on the rear end without having additional downforce at the front would make for some pretty wretched handling since the FRONT wheels are the ones that need the most traction since that's where the power is being layed down AFAIK

The usefulness of a wing is going to depend entirely on the vehicle and situation. Too much rear downforce is going to cause understeer in virtually any vehicle. You (not you, specifically) can't blindly say that a wing on any FWD vehicle is unnecessary.

A suspension setup that tends to oversteer would benefit greatly from the added downforce from a wing. When taking sweeping turns around a course, the wing might keep the car more neutral and willing to play.

For the stop-light/interstate racers, downforce is necessary for high speed stability and handling. At 60+mph, traction shouldn't be an issue for either front or rear wheel drive vehicles as they won't be breaking the tires loose anyway. However, the added stability might keep them from losing control and plowing into some unspecting citizens.

 

[Dulanic]

Originally posted by: LsDPulsar
The Scion has been released. Perhaps not the tC model, but I can assure you they run down the same assembly line and will have the same types of quality problems.

In fact, the lower volume vehicle will likely have more problems with the unique components it requires.

But just ignore me. I'm only an auto manufacturing engineer.

Edit: Changed "a" to "an". It's a proven fact engineers can't spell.

Glad you have a clue what your talking about... the tC is made in their Tsutsumi plant along with the following cars...

Toyota Windom (ES 300)
Vista
Camry (JDM)
Corona
Caldina
Scepter
Prius

And lets not forget alot of the tC is built on proven parts... it is built on the Avensis platform... and uses the Camry engine.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: NFS4
Putting downforce on the rear end without having additional downforce at the front would make for some pretty wretched handling since the FRONT wheels are the ones that need the most traction since that's where the power is being layed down AFAIK

The usefulness of a wing is going to depend entirely on the vehicle and situation. Too much rear downforce is going to cause understeer in virtually any vehicle. You (not you, specifically) can't blindly say that a wing on any FWD vehicle is unnecessary.

A suspension setup that tends to oversteer would benefit greatly from the added downforce from a wing. When taking sweeping turns around a course, the wing might keep the car more neutral and willing to play.

For the stop-light/interstate racers, downforce is necessary for high speed stability and handling. At 60+mph, traction shouldn't be an issue for either front or rear wheel drive vehicles as they won't be breaking the tires loose anyway. However, the added stability might keep them from losing control and plowing into some unspecting citizens.

But don't typical FWD cars understeer?

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: NFS4
Putting downforce on the rear end without having additional downforce at the front would make for some pretty wretched handling since the FRONT wheels are the ones that need the most traction since that's where the power is being layed down AFAIK

The usefulness of a wing is going to depend entirely on the vehicle and situation. Too much rear downforce is going to cause understeer in virtually any vehicle. You (not you, specifically) can't blindly say that a wing on any FWD vehicle is unnecessary.

A suspension setup that tends to oversteer would benefit greatly from the added downforce from a wing. When taking sweeping turns around a course, the wing might keep the car more neutral and willing to play.

For the stop-light/interstate racers, downforce is necessary for high speed stability and handling. At 60+mph, traction shouldn't be an issue for either front or rear wheel drive vehicles as they won't be breaking the tires loose anyway. However, the added stability might keep them from losing control and plowing into some unspecting citizens.

But don't typical FWD cars understeer?

I think what he's saying is that a wing might help a FWD understeer less?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: NFS4
Putting downforce on the rear end without having additional downforce at the front would make for some pretty wretched handling since the FRONT wheels are the ones that need the most traction since that's where the power is being layed down AFAIK

The usefulness of a wing is going to depend entirely on the vehicle and situation. Too much rear downforce is going to cause understeer in virtually any vehicle. You (not you, specifically) can't blindly say that a wing on any FWD vehicle is unnecessary.

A suspension setup that tends to oversteer would benefit greatly from the added downforce from a wing. When taking sweeping turns around a course, the wing might keep the car more neutral and willing to play.

For the stop-light/interstate racers, downforce is necessary for high speed stability and handling. At 60+mph, traction shouldn't be an issue for either front or rear wheel drive vehicles as they won't be breaking the tires loose anyway. However, the added stability might keep them from losing control and plowing into some unspecting citizens.

But don't typical FWD cars understeer?

I think what he's saying is that a wing might help a FWD understeer less?

But wouldn't putting a wing (on a FWD car) add more rear downforce making understeer even MORE pronounced?

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: NFS4
But don't typical FWD cars understeer?

I think what he's saying is that a wing might help a FWD understeer less?

But wouldn't putting a wing (on a FWD car) add more downforce rear downforce making understeer even MORE pronounced?

You are correct, AFAIK. If understeer is a characteristic of the vehicle, then more rear downforce will only make it worse. Under or oversteer is a function of suspension and tire setup, weight distribution, drivetrain, and most importantly driver input.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: NFS4
But don't typical FWD cars understeer?

I think what he's saying is that a wing might help a FWD understeer less?

But wouldn't putting a wing (on a FWD car) add more downforce rear downforce making understeer even MORE pronounced?

You are correct, AFAIK. If understeer is a characteristic of the vehicle, then more rear downforce will only make it worse. Under or oversteer is a function of suspension and tire setup, weight distribution, drivetrain, and most importantly driver input.

Very true, but understeer is just an inherent trait with most FWD cars.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
You are correct, AFAIK. If understeer is a characteristic of the vehicle, then more rear downforce will only make it worse. Under or oversteer is a function of suspension and tire setup, weight distribution, drivetrain, and most importantly driver input.

Very true, but understeer is just an inherent trait with most FWD cars.

Yep, most, but not all, which was kinda my point.🙂

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
The usefulness of a wing is going to depend entirely on the vehicle and situation. Too much rear downforce is going to cause understeer in virtually any vehicle. You (not you, specifically) can't blindly say that a wing on any FWD vehicle is unnecessary.

 

[Rankor]

Was just at Longo Scion here in El Monte, CA. They had their test drive car available and I took it for a spin.

It wasn't bad.

I already test drove a Mazda 3s and I'm waiting for the Corolla XRS to come out also so I can test drive that.

The web pictures don't give it justice though. It was a flint mica auto with 6 disk cd and the exhaust option. They even had it lowered.

If you're in the area and are interested, try it out.

 

[CtK]

first thing i would do is remove this radio

and try to fit this in IN DASH LCD
😀

 

[NFS4]

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16808&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0