So who else here is pre-ordering Mass Effect 3?

[Via]

I'm going to throw out some more parameters:

Any game where you can't make moral choices is probably not a RPG.

Any game where your abilities (especially combat) do not improve over the time you play it is probably not a RPG.

 

[Dumac]

Role = A character assigned or assumed

Playing = to engage or take part in a game

Game = activity engaged in for diversion or amusement

Are you serious right now? Are you really being the type of pedantic person that uses the literal definition of an acronym rather than the accepted definition? You do realize how ridiculous that is, right? RPG is an established term; you can't just take it at the base meaning.

By your logic:

Doom is a shoot 'em up cause you shoot em up.
Final Fantasy is a beat 'em up cause you beat people up.
Half Life 2 is a fighting game cause you fight people.
Baldurs Gate is a hack and slash because your character hacks and slashes things.
Dragon Age Origins is a roguelike, if you play a rogue.

I'm not going to argue symantics.

Huh? That is exactly what you are doing.

It's quite a simple concept. You play the role of a particular characting living in an immersive world. Playing the protagonist isn't enough. Do some reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game

From your own sources:

"Players control one or several characters by issuing commands, which is performed by the character at an effectiveness determined by that character's numeric attributes."

"Role-playing video games also typically attempt to offer more complex and dynamic character interaction than what is found in other video game genres."

"Most of the actions in an RPG are performed indirectly, with the player selecting an action and the character performing it by their own accord. Success at that action depends on the character's numeric attributes"
"Exploring the world is an important aspect of all RPGs"

"Players can find loot throughout the game world and collect it, such as clothing, weapons, and armor."

"Unlike action games, RPGs seldom test a player's physical skill. Combat is typically a tactical challenge rather than a physical one, and games involve other non-action gameplay such as choosing dialog options, inventory management, or buying and selling items."

Sounds like more than just R=ROLE, P=PLAYING, G=GAME

 

[Anteaus]

Are you serious right now? Are you really being the type of pedantic person that uses the literal definition of an acronym rather than the accepted definition? You do realize how ridiculous that is, right? RPG is an established term; you can't just take it at the base meaning.

By your logic:

Doom is a shoot 'em up cause you shoot em up.
Final Fantasy is a beat 'em up cause you beat people up.
Half Life 2 is a fighting game cause you fight people.
Baldurs Gate is a hack and slash because your character hacks and slashes things.
Dragon Age Origins is a roguelike, if you play a rogue.



Huh? That is exactly what you are doing.



From your own sources:

"Players control one or several characters by issuing commands, which is performed by the character at an effectiveness determined by that character's numeric attributes."

"Role-playing video games also typically attempt to offer more complex and dynamic character interaction than what is found in other video game genres."

"Most of the actions in an RPG are performed indirectly, with the player selecting an action and the character performing it by their own accord. Success at that action depends on the character's numeric attributes"
"Exploring the world is an important aspect of all RPGs"

"Players can find loot throughout the game world and collect it, such as clothing, weapons, and armor."

"Unlike action games, RPGs seldom test a player's physical skill. Combat is typically a tactical challenge rather than a physical one, and games involve other non-action gameplay such as choosing dialog options, inventory management, or buying and selling items."

Sounds like more than just R=ROLE, P=PLAYING, G=GAME

All you did was validate my point. Mass Effect is an RPG. A more precise description would be an action-rpg, but the commonality is in the RPG elements. The original debate was that ME was less RPG and more shooter, and my arguement was that however you describe the gameplay, it is still an RPG.

I'm not sure what we are arguing about, as everything you quoted goes in favor of my earlier posts. All I'm saying is that RPGs focus on "Role Playing" versus just combat or any other singular aspect of gaming.

Half-life is a shooter because it is focused primarily on weapons. There is no other character development that isn't story driven in a passive way. The character doesn't change. The guns just get bigger/difference. Take the guns out of half-life and all you have is a movie. Doom is the same.

Baldur's Gate Final Fantasy are RPGs in the sense that you have character development outside of combat, with the player able to interact with the world in various ways. Your character has growth.

Dragon Age is an action RPG because it combines third person interactive combat with RPG elements, creating more diversity in the combat. However, the focus of the game is still on character development, not combat. Story line choices, as with ME, reliterate this. There is character development by virtue of morality choice.

The literal form of the acronym RPG is actually suitable. The base meaning is exactly what it says. A Role Playing Game is a game in which focus is placed on role playing your character, whereas a shooter is focused on the combat, so on and so forth. It's always been about focus.

 

[Dumac]

All you did was validate my point.

No, I didn't. I showed that your 'point' was in fact fundamentally flawed.

Mass Effect is an RPG.

I never said it wasn't. That isn't even what I was arguing. All I was arguing is that this:

Role = A character assigned or assumed

Playing = to engage or take part in a game

Game = activity engaged in for diversion or amusement

I'm not going to argue symantics. It's quite a simple concept. You play the role of a particular characting living in an immersive world. Playing the protagonist isn't enough. Do some reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game

Is complete nonsense. RPG means more than the words role playing game strung together.

The literal form of the acronym RPG is actually suitable. The base meaning is exactly what it says. A Role Playing Game is a game in which focus is placed on role playing your character, whereas a shooter is focused on the combat, so on and so forth. It's always been about focus.

No it isn't. It isn't suitable, at all. Why can't you understand that the genre of RPG, and all other genres for that matter, is more than the words that label it? RPGs are more than just role playing games, taken literally. Your misguided point about 'focus' has nothing to do with it. There is no less focus on your role in RPGs than many other games of other genres. Stop trying to define RPG literally, because it doesn't work. I gave you a bunch of reasons why and you just ignored them all, reiterating your invalid concept of genres.

Again, Doom is not a shoot 'em up, even though the entire focus of the game is shooting em up. Heavy Rain is not an RPG, even though the entire game is a story driven narrative about the role you play in the story. Same goes for point and click adventures, visual novels, Soul Reaver, and countless other games that aren't RPGs, yet the role of the main character that you play in the game is still at the forefront.

 

[sigurros81]

Role = A character assigned or assumed

Playing = to engage or take part in a game

Game = activity engaged in for diversion or amusement

I'm not going to argue symantics. It's quite a simple concept. You play the role of a particular characting living in an immersive world. Playing the protagonist isn't enough. Do some reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game

LOL. Wow. Either this guy is an obvious troll or just an obvious dumbass, or both. This thread is keeping me entertained and making the work day go by faster. I can't wait to get home and play that new Madden Football RPG game.

Edit: Oops, I meant to post something related to the post. I was a fan of ME1, enjoyed ME2 but thought it was completely overhyped. The game's RPG-lite elements were lame and the game was completely easy, all the missions were as narrow and linear as a COD mission. ME2 was pretty much a mediocre 3rd person shooter set in a pretty cool Scifi universe. I'm going to wait for ME3 to go on sale before I pick it up, which I'm sure will be pretty fast.

Now, Witcher 3 on the other hand...

 

[darkewaffle]

You are missing the point. If every genre can be an RPG, then what is the point of having an RPG genre descriptor? It is meaningless.

Also your example is flawed. If you took out the RPG elements from DA:O, you could be left with a good game, but it wouldn't be an RPG.

If you took out the quality of writing and characters and story, you would still have an RPG (depending on the degree of removal), it would just be a bad one, similar to the very beginnings of the genre.

Why can't it be, or even why isn't it already, meaningless? Genre lines in music, movies, books and other media mediums are already extremely muddled; I don't see why video games would be any different. Half the time genre is describing a setting (fantasy, sci-fi), half the time it's describing the gameplay (FPS, RTS), and half the time it's describing something more intangible [style?] (RPG, casual, hardcore).

See, the difference is, to me the "quality of writing and characters and story" are the RPG elements. Take those out and you no longer have an RPG, you have a "character progress game" or a "numbers building game" or however you wish to think of it. Something akin to, say, a Flash game that has loads of stats and figures but nothing beyond that. I wouldn't consider that an RPG, maybe it is to you.

yet the role of the main character that you play in the game is still at the forefront.

Sure even though you may play the role of keeper in FIFA, I'd be hard pressed to consider that an RPG. It lacks the emotional content, character development, story, plot, or any of that depth which, for my money, is what pulls a player in, makes him/her care and creates immersion.

As I said, if you're invested in a story or care about what happens or 'become' your character or think like him/her or just put yourself in their shoes; it's [becoming] an RPG. I don't think there's one particular style of gameplay or use of game mechanics that's required. I think an RPG is about the story, world and characters; not the nuts and bolts.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Well, then you're using the word differently then everyone in the industry does, and how everyone in gaming uses it, and how it has been used it for 30 years. This is not a new term, and it has meant a "character progress game" for it's entire life.

This isn't clever, helpful, or useful. It's equivalent to claiming that a "First Person Shooter" refers to light gun games, or that "Bacon" mean "A shade of blue".

 

[Beev]

This thread got stupid.

 

[Kev]

This thread got stupid.

It amazes me the amount of effort people will put into arguing an insignificant topic with a random stranger on an internet message board.

 

[obidamnkenobi]

LOL. Wow. Either this guy is an obvious troll or just an obvious dumbass, or both. This thread is keeping me entertained and making the work day go by faster. I can't wait to get home and play that new Madden Football RPG game.

Edit: Oops, I meant to post something related to the post. I was a fan of ME1, enjoyed ME2 but thought it was completely overhyped. The game's RPG-lite elements were lame and the game was completely easy, all the missions were as narrow and linear as a COD mission. ME2 was pretty much a mediocre 3rd person shooter set in a pretty cool Scifi universe. I'm going to wait for ME3 to go on sale before I pick it up, which I'm sure will be pretty fast.

Now, Witcher 3 on the other hand...

That was pretty much the feeling I got reading about ME2 and playing the demo. Which is why I still haven't played it. I thought ME1 was ok. Story was pretty generic sci-fi. Predictable, but not too bad. I almost gave up 4 hrs from the end but did manage to finish it. Final part was pretty neat.

ME2 seems like an ok 3rd person shooter, where you also occasionally get to decide whether or not random strangers should have an abortion.. (still my favorite "wtf? for real?" quest from any Bioware game). I find it a bit hard to care about the story in these games, so not sure i'd even finish ME2 if I started it..

 

[Dumac]

Why can't it be, or even why isn't it already, meaningless?

It isn't meaningless currently, as the real meaning of the term RPG is clear to most in the industry (both producers and consumers). It can't be meaningless, because then there is no reason for the term to exist.

See, the difference is, to me the "quality of writing and characters and story" are the RPG elements. Take those out and you no longer have an RPG...As I said, if you're invested in a story or care about what happens or 'become' your character or think like him/her or just put yourself in their shoes; it's [becoming] an RPG. I don't think there's one particular style of gameplay or use of game mechanics that's required. I think an RPG is about the story, world and characters; not the nuts and bolts.

The problem with this definition is that it is extremely subjective and is a poor categorizer. With any type of game, you can get invested with the story.

Sure even though you may play the role of keeper in FIFA, I'd be hard pressed to consider that an RPG. It lacks the emotional content, character development, story, plot, or any of that depth which, for my money, is what pulls a player in, makes him/her care and creates immersion.

I didn't mention FIFA. I meantioned a ton of games with strong story elements and character immersion, yet that nobody would call RPGs. Say for the next FIFA game, they added a narrative mode where you play a specific player and the mode encapsulates his and the team's rise to success. Suddenly in an RPG, just because it has a narrative that you can become invested it? That doesn't make any sense, and isn't what RPG means at all.

you have a "character progress game" or a "numbers building game" or however you wish to think of it. Something akin to, say, a Flash game that has loads of stats and figures but nothing beyond that. I wouldn't consider that an RPG, maybe it is to you.

That is just a small part of what an RPG is, not the whole. A simple number cruncher would not be an RPG.

This thread got stupid.

It was stupid to being with. The premise of the thread is how many people preordered a game? Of course people would make up content to discuss in here.

It amazes me the amount of effort people will put into arguing an insignificant topic with a random stranger on an internet message board.

Not much effort really. 2 minutes to type up a quick reply every couple of days.

 

[stevty2889]

I'll have to wait and see. If it requires Origin, I won't be buying it. EA/Origin support is terrible. Scripted responses from their customer support, after 3 differant people, they finally admit they can't figure it out and tell me they will have a senior tech support person contact me. It's been over a week since the problem started, and 4 days with no response from anyone. I installed my roommates Steam version of the game for troubleshooting, and it launches fine. But with Origin, it will not launch.

 

[PrayForDeath]

This thread is stupid.

Fix't

 

[SLU Aequitas]

I'll have to wait and see. If it requires Origin, I won't be buying it. EA/Origin support is terrible. Scripted responses from their customer support, after 3 differant people, they finally admit they can't figure it out and tell me they will have a senior tech support person contact me. It's been over a week since the problem started, and 4 days with no response from anyone. I installed my roommates Steam version of the game for troubleshooting, and it launches fine. But with Origin, it will not launch.

Opposite experience. I recently had my BF3 cd-key stop working with my account, for whatever reason. EA/Origin tech support couldn't figure out the cause, so within ten minutes they just sent me a new CD-key and a promotional discount to apologize for the inconvenience.

Beats EVERY Steam support experience I've had.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Opposite experience. I recently had my BF3 cd-key stop working with my account, for whatever reason. EA/Origin tech support couldn't figure out the cause, so within ten minutes they just sent me a new CD-key and a promotional discount to apologize for the inconvenience.

Beats EVERY Steam support experience I've had.

I'm glad you love your masters at EA. Make sure not to let that love wane and verbalize it in public or your precious BF3 will be taken away FOREVER.

 

[Raduque]

I'm glad you love your masters at EA. Make sure not to let that love wane and verbalize it in public or your precious BF3 will be taken away FOREVER.

Hyperbolic much?

 

[SLU Aequitas]

I'm glad you love your masters at EA. Make sure not to let that love wane and verbalize it in public or your precious BF3 will be taken away FOREVER.

LOL. Too funny.

 

[Aristotelian]

I just preordered it. In Germany it is 74.99 Euros from the Origin site (the N7 Digital Deluxe Edition), which seems a bit steep, but I thoroughly enjoyed ME2 (moreso than ME 1) so it didn't really bother me to pay that much.

It's not clear to me why the definition/genre discussion is so appealing to some posters - ME 1 and ME 2 were fun games. I hope ME 3 is also, and a fitting end to the series.

 

[Madia]

I've had the collector's edition pre-ordered since June. It's my most anticipated game this year (ME 2 might be my favorite game of all time.) I've avoided spoilers so here's hoping it's a great experience.

 

[Red Storm]

I've had the collector's edition pre-ordered since June. It's my most anticipated game this year (ME 2 might be my favorite game of all time.) I've avoided spoilers so here's hoping it's a great experience.

Shepard kills

Spoiler

Dumbledore.

 

[alent1234]

are the digital exclusives from gamestop like the armor worth it? or is it just a renamed item that will be in the game?

 

[Pantalaimon]

Strange. I pre-ordered it in Finland yesterday and it cost 69,90 euros.

 

[darkewaffle]

Well, then you're using the word differently then everyone in the industry does, and how everyone in gaming uses it, and how it has been used it for 30 years. This is not a new term, and it has meant a "character progress game" for it's entire life.

The problem with this definition is that it is extremely subjective and is a poor categorizer. With any type of game, you can get invested with the story.

I didn't mention FIFA. I meantioned a ton of games with strong story elements and character immersion, yet that nobody would call RPGs. Say for the next FIFA game, they added a narrative mode where you play a specific player and the mode encapsulates his and the team's rise to success. Suddenly in an RPG, just because it has a narrative that you can become invested it? That doesn't make any sense, and isn't what RPG means at all.

Of course it's subjective, there's no ESRB manual controlling game taxonomy. It is what you get out of it/what you find in it. In this very thread there's the "Mass Effect is an RPG" crowd and the "Mass Effect is a shooter" crowd; is one group right and one group wrong?

And just what makes those mechanical "RPG elements" not a poor categorizer? Any game can have a strong story, just as any game can incorporate a system of levels, skills, and character building. Is BFBC2 an RPG because you level up and gain new abilities, customizing how your character performs? Is Killing Floor an RPG for those same reasons? Sim City, Borderlands, Mafia Wars, Ragnarok Online? These defining characteristics are equally as broad and arbitrary and found in multitudes of games; they're simply personal reflections of what priorities you have.

RPG just means something different to me which is all I've expressed. In much the same way that 'rock music' means different things to different people, or ''fantasy" or "punk" or "action" or "drama" mean different things to different people. Everyone has their own personal criteria for what classifies a piece of work; it's hardly an industry standard.

But you mentioned Heavy Rain and Soul Reaver, neither of which I've played. Heavy Rain however is contentious; simply google "heavy rain rpg" and you'll find people asking whether it is or not, some people saying it absolutely is, and some people saying it's not because it doesn't have the alleged "RPG elements" of levels/skills/numbers. Not particularly clear cut.

Soul Reaver I can't speak on; to me it would depend if the story is of any substance whether it qualifies. At a glance it looks somewhat similar (third person, fighting based, fantasy setting) to God of War which I wouldn't go so far as to call an RPG because, while I enjoy the Greek fantasy setting and it's epic scale, it's clearly a secondary focus to the combat; it's cool but I didn't find it engrossing. I played GoW not because I wanted to see if Kratos triumphed over Ares but because it was fun to play.

Finding yourself drawn into a game is the crux of the experience for me, regardless of if your character is swinging a sword, shooting a gun, kicking a ball, casting a spell or driving a truck.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

And the historical context? RPG is a term that's been in use for decades, and it's referred specifically to the stat building elements since the genre name was first applied way back when the commodore 64 was high tech.

The fact that the genre name was in use before story existed in any appreciable fashion in games should clue you is that story is largely irrelevant to the classification.

It's still widely in use in that regard, as any basic stat building adding to a game that otherwise fits better into another genre is widely referred to as "RPG elements".

 

[ramj70]

Apparently some leaked scripts and videos are out that show some the endings. All hell is breaking loose at the bioware forums, many upset and angry fans at how the game might end.