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So who are you Canucks voting for on Monday?
- Thread starter Riprorin
- Start date
sandorski
No Lifer
There's anoher thread on this already, but...
Undecided.
Leaning towards the Liberal Party, which would be the first time I've ever voted for them. On the one hand they have been excellent Fiscally bringing the country back from the edge of disaster to a point where there have been 6ish years of Budgetary Surplus. OTOH, a few controversial Programs have been Moneypits. Overall though they have been Fiscally conservative.
I would usually vote Conservative(always have), but Harper and the current Conservative platform strikes me as anything but conservative. They're talking big tax cuts similar to Bush's and tried on the Provicial level in Ontario which has proven disasterous. Not only that, but they are also talking about huge spending increases, which I agree that where they want to spend money is a good idea(Military for eg, but they are making the same mistake Bush has made, assuming too much.
The Conservative Party claims that their Programs, Tax Cuts, etc can be acheived based upon their forecast of the Fiscal Surplus over the next 10 years, some $80Billion. In contrast, the Liberals' are forecasting some $30Billion and the NDP(New Democratic Party---Canada's closest thing to an all out Socialist Party) forecasts some $60billion. In short, even the damn Socialists are acting more conservative than the Conservatives!(though perhaps just for campaigning purposes)
Canada doesn't need to go wasting all the Blood, Sweat, and Tears it has taken to get back from the brink of the early 90's!
1) There is little need for a dramatic Tax Cut, Taxes have been cut every year for the last 2-3 based upon the Surplus. It may not be dramatic, but it is a Tax Cut based on sound reasoning and without threatening a return to Deficits.
2) Canada is currently the only G8 Nation paying down its' National Debt
3) Other than the Economic slowdown this year, Canada has been leading the G8 Nations in Economic Growth for some 6ish consecutive years
4) Spending on core Programs such as Universal Health Care are on the increase, again the result of Fiscal Surpluses and again the increases have been prudently managed as to avoid a return to Deficit Spending.
So my choice is between:
1) Proven Fiscal conservatives or
2) the Conservatives using the most polyanna estimates to justify their revolutionary change to the status quo
I'll post who I vote for tommorow, but right now I'm leaning heavily to the Liberal Party.
Undecided.
Leaning towards the Liberal Party, which would be the first time I've ever voted for them. On the one hand they have been excellent Fiscally bringing the country back from the edge of disaster to a point where there have been 6ish years of Budgetary Surplus. OTOH, a few controversial Programs have been Moneypits. Overall though they have been Fiscally conservative.
I would usually vote Conservative(always have), but Harper and the current Conservative platform strikes me as anything but conservative. They're talking big tax cuts similar to Bush's and tried on the Provicial level in Ontario which has proven disasterous. Not only that, but they are also talking about huge spending increases, which I agree that where they want to spend money is a good idea(Military for eg, but they are making the same mistake Bush has made, assuming too much.
The Conservative Party claims that their Programs, Tax Cuts, etc can be acheived based upon their forecast of the Fiscal Surplus over the next 10 years, some $80Billion. In contrast, the Liberals' are forecasting some $30Billion and the NDP(New Democratic Party---Canada's closest thing to an all out Socialist Party) forecasts some $60billion. In short, even the damn Socialists are acting more conservative than the Conservatives!(though perhaps just for campaigning purposes)
Canada doesn't need to go wasting all the Blood, Sweat, and Tears it has taken to get back from the brink of the early 90's!
1) There is little need for a dramatic Tax Cut, Taxes have been cut every year for the last 2-3 based upon the Surplus. It may not be dramatic, but it is a Tax Cut based on sound reasoning and without threatening a return to Deficits.
2) Canada is currently the only G8 Nation paying down its' National Debt
3) Other than the Economic slowdown this year, Canada has been leading the G8 Nations in Economic Growth for some 6ish consecutive years
4) Spending on core Programs such as Universal Health Care are on the increase, again the result of Fiscal Surpluses and again the increases have been prudently managed as to avoid a return to Deficit Spending.
So my choice is between:
1) Proven Fiscal conservatives or
2) the Conservatives using the most polyanna estimates to justify their revolutionary change to the status quo
I'll post who I vote for tommorow, but right now I'm leaning heavily to the Liberal Party.
sandorski
No Lifer
All that said, what is even more interesting is that it looks like Canada is headed for a Minority government. Most Minority governments fail as it requires that 1 Party has to cooperate with another Party, which(in Canada) rarely have Philosophical similarities(other than the Liberals who are much more a Populist party and less a Philosophical Party). Due to the differences, most Minority Governments have short lives, the last one(formed by the Progressive Conservatives, a forerunner of the current Conservative Party, lasted only 6 months in the early 1980's.
Definition Minority Government: A Minority Government comes into being when no Party wins a Majority of the Seats in the House of Commons.
How a Minority Government is formed: If no Party wins a Majority of the Seats, the Governor General(Queens Representative in Parliament) Calls upon the Incumbent Party to attempt to form a Minority Government. If it fails to succeed, then the Governor General calls upon the Party with the Majority of Seats or the next most Seats(in the case that the Incumbent had the most). IOW, the first crack doesn't necessarily go to the Party with the most Seats.
In a cunning move, Paul Martin the Leader of the Liberals, has agreed to let the Party with the most Seats try to form the Government. Recent Polls show that the Conservatives will win the Most Seats, so to avoid a short lived government which usually results in the Party who formed the Minority government to lose the next election, Martin has declined his Parties Traditional Priviledge.
The big problem with the Conservatives and a Minority Government is that to avoid a Vote of No Confidence(lose this vote and your Government becomes Illegitimate) requires the Minority Government to have enough votes in the Opposition so as not to be outvoted. This is why an alliance with another Party is usually formed, in exchange for the other Parties support. In exchange, the Governing Party usually gives the other Party some goodies, such as a implementation of some part of the other Parties Election Platform. The problem for both the Liberals and Conservatives is who do you team up with? They have 2 choices(other than teaming up with each other) a) Bloc Quebecuios(sp), Quebec Separatists; b) NDP, too far Left for either Party, though at one time not too long ago the Liberals were close in Policy with them.
Should be interesting.
Definition Minority Government: A Minority Government comes into being when no Party wins a Majority of the Seats in the House of Commons.
How a Minority Government is formed: If no Party wins a Majority of the Seats, the Governor General(Queens Representative in Parliament) Calls upon the Incumbent Party to attempt to form a Minority Government. If it fails to succeed, then the Governor General calls upon the Party with the Majority of Seats or the next most Seats(in the case that the Incumbent had the most). IOW, the first crack doesn't necessarily go to the Party with the most Seats.
In a cunning move, Paul Martin the Leader of the Liberals, has agreed to let the Party with the most Seats try to form the Government. Recent Polls show that the Conservatives will win the Most Seats, so to avoid a short lived government which usually results in the Party who formed the Minority government to lose the next election, Martin has declined his Parties Traditional Priviledge.
The big problem with the Conservatives and a Minority Government is that to avoid a Vote of No Confidence(lose this vote and your Government becomes Illegitimate) requires the Minority Government to have enough votes in the Opposition so as not to be outvoted. This is why an alliance with another Party is usually formed, in exchange for the other Parties support. In exchange, the Governing Party usually gives the other Party some goodies, such as a implementation of some part of the other Parties Election Platform. The problem for both the Liberals and Conservatives is who do you team up with? They have 2 choices(other than teaming up with each other) a) Bloc Quebecuios(sp), Quebec Separatists; b) NDP, too far Left for either Party, though at one time not too long ago the Liberals were close in Policy with them.
Should be interesting.
I would vote conservative, but am not in currently in the country. Although they're unproven I think that a)the tories are smart enough to know that deficits and health cuts are political suicide, and will not attempt either of them, ie they will not put the country in economic or social danger b) good to have some change of goverment, especially after 11 years of one party rule.
sMiLeYz, don't worry, our conservative party resembles clinton's democratic party more than the republicans. Wouldn't think about voting for them otherwise 😉
sMiLeYz, don't worry, our conservative party resembles clinton's democratic party more than the republicans. Wouldn't think about voting for them otherwise 😉
DamnDirtyApe
Senior member
If only that were the case... have you been following the election? The religious right / moral majority types have increased their standing significantly since the PC / Alliance merger. Harper may be "campaigning towards the centre" just like Bush did in 2000 but his individual candidates have made statements on abortion, gay rights, etc. that reveal the true underlying ideology of those running the party today.
For my two cents' worth, I'm voting NDP because my riding is Liberal vs. NDP. My personal beliefs match up quite well with the Liberal party, but I'm sick of all the cronyism & pork-barreling that is rampant within all levels of the party. (I was formerly involved with the University of Toronto young liberals).
Sandorski is semi correct about a minority government.
The party with the most seats forms the government, but it is a minority government if the combined opposition has more seats. This results in the ruling party having to make concessions to the opposition in order to pass any legislation. As in the case of the Joe Clark government of 1979, he lost a non-confidence vote when he brought his budget down. This in turn forces a new election.
If this happens with Paul Martin, we will have to go through this same crap all over again.
The party with the most seats forms the government, but it is a minority government if the combined opposition has more seats. This results in the ruling party having to make concessions to the opposition in order to pass any legislation. As in the case of the Joe Clark government of 1979, he lost a non-confidence vote when he brought his budget down. This in turn forces a new election.
If this happens with Paul Martin, we will have to go through this same crap all over again.
sandorski
No Lifer
BQ--Bloc Quebecoius(sp)---Quebec Separatists or Nationalists
NDP-New Democratic Party----started out as a Socialist Party 50-60 years ago, but have settled as a Left wing Party that is much tamer than a true Socialist party. Probably the most influential party that has never formed a Federal Government. Universal Healthcare, CPP(Canada Pension Plan), and other socially progressive programs were originally instituted by them on a Provincial level.
NDP-New Democratic Party----started out as a Socialist Party 50-60 years ago, but have settled as a Left wing Party that is much tamer than a true Socialist party. Probably the most influential party that has never formed a Federal Government. Universal Healthcare, CPP(Canada Pension Plan), and other socially progressive programs were originally instituted by them on a Provincial level.
imported_Aelius
Golden Member
Looks very much like a Liberal minority.
I suppose it is for the best.
If Harper was to have been elected civil rights in this country, as well as foreign policy, would have gona to the dogs, much like in the US.
Also with a minority government the Libs can no longer rule with an iron fist, which is good. They have had far too much power and abused it too much.
Hopefully this is a wakeup call for Paul Martin to get his act togeather.
Remains to be seen.
I suppose it is for the best.
If Harper was to have been elected civil rights in this country, as well as foreign policy, would have gona to the dogs, much like in the US.
Also with a minority government the Libs can no longer rule with an iron fist, which is good. They have had far too much power and abused it too much.
Hopefully this is a wakeup call for Paul Martin to get his act togeather.
Remains to be seen.
sandorski
No Lifer
😀
Well, it's not like we want them, they just seem to not go away! 😉
There are many who think they are just a way to exert more power and if that's all they exist for they have been fairly successful.
According to some Demographic studies(y), by 2020 Quebec should be diluted too much for a Separation to take place, but that depends on whether Immigration levels are maintained and also assumes that the Immigrants won't join the "True" Quebecois, as Parizaue(eek sp) denoted.
imported_Aelius
Golden Member
That depends on what you mean by "viable". If you are hoping that another party will somehow spring from the ground and will suddenly become the 3rd option in the US you are sadly dreaming.
Both Reps and Dems control the board that creates policies for elections and who gets on the card. They have also made sure to keep others out of debates as much as possible. Especially the Libertarian party.
They have always faught to keep others off the political radar. Not unlike a couple of lions fighting to keep others off a dead carcass.
replicator
Senior member
Voted liberal as well..
Better the evil you know
Better the evil you know
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
Yeah I held my nose and voted Grit too. I can't go for the Conservative party's social regression platform, and I agree with the above opinion that the Liberals are Canada's real 'fiscal conservatives'.
So did I. First time I've ever, voted for the Liberals. I don't know how the Conservatives could view this election other than a failure. They didn't make the huge gains that were expected in Ontario and their popular vote was down by almost 8%. Heck, after all the controversy the Liberals popular vote only decrased by 3%.
The next year(s) will certainly be interesting.
Michael
Elite member
I has been a while since my party (Conservatives) won so many seats. Very discouraging that the BQ did so well. It might give hope to the separtists and hurt Quebec's economy some more. I was back in Montreal for the first time in 8 years over Memorial Day weekend (wedding of an old friend from University) and it was great to see new office buildings going up and what looked like an economy that had been doing decent for a while.
Michael
ps - yes, I'm Canadian, and a Concordia and McGill graduate
Michael
ps - yes, I'm Canadian, and a Concordia and McGill graduate
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