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So where are we at with the 470

X

Xarick

Golden Member
in relation to the 5850/5870. Originally it seemed everyone was saying not worth the money, runs hot, sucks power. Now things seems to have softened. Doesn't run quite as hot and has good performance. Still runs $40 more than the 5850, but I see more people recommending it over the 5850 these days. The 5870 still seems to win the vote when put in the mix though. Thoughts?
 
Xarick said:
in relation to the 5850/5870. Originally it seemed everyone was saying not worth the money, runs hot, sucks power. Now things seems to have softened. Doesn't run quite as hot and has good performance. Still runs $40 more than the 5850, but I see more people recommending it over the 5850 these days. The 5870 still seems to win the vote when put in the mix though. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
😵

(man I love that smiley 😀)

Anyway, I don't see anything would change really as far as the cards go, as neither the GTX 470 nor its 58xx competitors have changed much. Generally it's the same - 5850<470<5870, but they all trade blows at some point or another. In games that favor the Cypress architecture, the 470 is equal to 5850 performance (+/- 5&#37😉 and in games that favor the Fermi architecture, it nips at the heels of the 5870. The GTX 470 still consumes a good deal more power, but there are versions of the card with aftermarket cooling that cut down on the noise produced. I'd still recommend the 5850 over the GTX 470 or the 5870, but it all comes down to personal preference after weighing the benefits and drawbacks.
 
The 470 seems to be 5-10&#37; faster than the 5850, so you have to decide if that performance bump is worth the extra money to you. Yea, the 470 uses much more power and produces more heat than the 5850, depending on your setup and preferences that may or may not be a big deal to you.

If you don't mind tinkering and overclocking than I think the 5850 is the card to get in my opinion. It seems that every reference 5850 will hit 900MHz+ with a voltage bump, many will get to 1GHz. The 470's seem to be a bit more finicky from what I've seen on forums/reviews. Some will overclock to 480+ performance, some will barely budge.

I really, really like my 5870 (the only reason I got it instead of a 5850 was because of a better than expected tax return) but if I were buying today I'd probably go with the 5850 and overclock as far as I can. It's the best bang for the buck of the performance/enthusiast cards in my opinion.
 
SlowSpyder said:
The 470 seems to be 5-10&#37; faster than the 5850, so you have to decide if that performance bump is worth the extra money to you. Yea, the 470 uses much more power and produces more heat than the 5850, depending on your setup and preferences that may or may not be a big deal to you.

If you don't mind tinkering and overclocking than I think the 5850 is the card to get in my opinion. It seems that every reference 5850 will hit 900MHz+ with a voltage bump, many will get to 1GHz. The 470's seem to be a bit more finicky from what I've seen on forums/reviews. Some will overclock to 480+ performance, some will barely budge.

I really, really like my 5870 (the only reason I got it instead of a 5850 was because of a better than expected tax return) but if I were buying today I'd probably go with the 5850 and overclock as far as I can. It's the best bang for the buck of the performance/enthusiast cards in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree. If you can get a 5850 at its actual $300 price point, it's the better deal. I've seen them for $330 though, and at that price, I believe the 470 is the better choice. I've never been one to OC a video card, so maybe my opinion isn't that pointed here.

Nonetheless, the fermi's noise level is exaggerated. Like any high end card, you hear it when it's pumping out that 8x AA, but it makes basically light/no noise when you're surfing/doing general use. However, its power consumption and heat production are not exaggerated, but every video card I've ever had ran pretty hot. My 4890 certainly gets hot, but I've never had issues with it. Airflow really does make a difference.
 
LOL, the actual price point for the 5850 would be the MSRP of $259. If you can get THAT, it's a hell of a deal today. Which really ticks me off, cause I could have bought them at release those 6 months or so ago for that price but decided to wait for the price to "go down" and that was a mistake. It can still be picked up for about $259 but only after coupons and incentives like bing cashback.

Tigerdirect has some 5850's around $300 and typically has a 10&#37; to 15% cashback on any given day. Just make sure if you go that route you take screenshots with every step of the transaction just to make sure you get your bing cashback.



But basically, I think the general consensus is still this.

If you a considering a 5850, 470, or 5870 it all comes down to price. If you have the cash the 5870 is still the best although when max overclocks are taken it's performance lead is not really that much more than the other two cards at around 5% or so more performance.

Which means, if you want the best bang for the buck, the 5850 is the card to get. Especially if you overclock. If you get a nice lucky chip, it may damn near equal the performance of most overclocked 5870s.

The only reasons to go with the 470 is if you somehow found a phenomenal deal on one to make it the same price as a 5850, or you actually regularly play one of the few games with hard Physx accelerations and like Physx in the game, or if you are just a die nvidia fan.

Not saying the 470 is not a bad card, but when compared to the competition, the cons generally outweigh the pros.
 
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HumblePie said:
LOL, the actual price point for the 5850 would be the MSRP of $259. If you can get THAT, it's a hell of a deal today. Which really ticks me off, cause I could have bought them at release those 6 months or so ago for that price but decided to wait for the price to "go down" and that was a mistake. It can still be picked up for about $259 but only after coupons and incentives like bing cashback.
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Is that the actual MSRP? Christ have I been conditioned 😛
 
It also depends on which resolution you are playing. 470 at 1920x1080 or below is pretty competitive with the 5870.
 
HumblePie said:
LOL, the actual price point for the 5850 would be the MSRP of $259. If you can get THAT, it's a hell of a deal today. Which really ticks me off, cause I could have bought them at release those 6 months or so ago for that price but decided to wait for the price to "go down" and that was a mistake. It can still be picked up for about $259 but only after coupons and incentives like bing cashback.
Click to expand...

So if it was at MSRP, you should be able to get it at $200? :hmm:

Have we been really screwed.
 
1. 5850 is still the best bang for the buck. It is only 4&#37;-5% slower on average than the GTX470 at 1920x1200 (see link below), while running cooler, quieter and consuming a lot less power. You can often find it for $295 or less vs. $350+ for GTX470: http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=...ess-Video-Card

2. I would probably spend the extra $40 for the 5870 simply because it runs cooler and quieter and is also faster (on average) by 12% at 1920x1200 and by 18% at 2560x1600: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_470_Dual/29.html

3. I would grab a GTX470 if I intended to build a multi-gpu setup as I would prefer GTX470 SLI to 5870 CF.
 
All depends on what your needs and requirements are. Generally for 1920x1200 the 5870 is overpowered. So I would go with the 5850 over the 470 due to power/heat/noise/Eyefinity, unless you fold or must have PhysX for some reason.

But I agree, if you are going to have more than one video card then I prefer SLI to Crossfire as well.
 
Axon said:
Is that the actual MSRP? Christ have I been conditioned 😛
Click to expand...

5850 MSRP = $259
5870 MSRP = $359

Those were the original prices the day of release. By the next day, prices had jumped in some cases by $100 if you could find one still in stock.

Today you can get both cards for those prices after "deals" but it just seems strange to use coupons, rebates, or bing cashback to get an item at the MSRP.

Oh, at MSRP, the 5870 kills the GTX 470.
 
HumblePie said:
5850 MSRP = $259
5870 MSRP = $359

Those were the original prices the day of release. By the next day, prices had jumped in some cases by $100 if you could find one still in stock.

Today you can get both cards for those prices after "deals" but it just seems strange to use coupons, rebates, or bing cashback to get an item at the MSRP.

Oh, at MSRP, the 5870 kills the GTX 470.
Click to expand...

5850 MSRP at launch was $259, and the 5870 was $379.

The 5850 was never really available at that price though. ATI paper launched it at $259, got the press to declare it the best bang for the buck, kept stock non-existent, raised the MSRP, and then slowly allowed the stock to trickle into retail. This in turn resulted in massive price gouging by retailers.

The 5870 on the other hand, was actually available at the original MSRP for a few weeks, albeit supply was pretty limited. I actually got hold of one a few weeks after launch for MSRP, but they started to climb in price as we got closer to the holiday season with low stock.
 
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I think both the 5850 and 470 are priced appropriately for their performance in relation to prices and performances of other parts. The gtx470 performs better, but has higher noise levels (with reference designs) and power consumption. If you think $50 is worth the better performance and you can live with higher noise levels and can accommodate the increased power consumption, then go with the gtx470. Otherwise, get the 5850 and it'll still be a good purchase.
 
happy medium said:
The 5850 is now more then 5% slower then the gtx 470 with the newest driver. In fact it come dangerously close to the 5870 alot of times.

Newest review.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gigabyte-gf-gtx400_17.html

The gtx 480 is now more then 20% faster then the 5870 also, with the latest drivers.

I believe both these cards will get even faster with better drivers.
Click to expand...

I also believe that as (or, more appropriately IF) games are built for DX11 instead of it being tacked on in the middle or latter part of the game's development, Fermi will show an even bigger performance gap.

But that could be 12-18 months away, or longer, before we are getting games that recommend/require DX11 and so in all honesty in unless someone is absolutely not upgrading for the next 3 years, the better DX11 performance may be moot.
 
HumblePie said:
Today you can get both cards for those prices after "deals" but it just seems strange to use coupons, rebates, or bing cashback to get an item at the MSRP.
Click to expand...

It is shocking isn't it? Even disregarding MSRP pricing, it's common knowledge for us that 5800 series is now 8 months old but prices of the 5870 have not moved from $400 level (or so) at all. Usually we would see gradual decline until a new generation of cards is released. It may be that 5870 will still be $350+ until SI replaces them.

ATI is not going to lower prices when NV's GTX470 is hovering at $349 mark and GTX480 at $499. Unless the sales of 5850/70s are falling significantly, they are probably doing fine selling 5850s at $300-320 and 5870s at $390-$420. So at the end of the day, one can only point to NV for helping ATI maintain their price levels.
 
HumblePie said:
But basically, I think the general consensus is still this.

If you a considering a 5850, 470, or 5870 it all comes down to price. If you have the cash the 5870 is still the best although when max overclocks are taken it's performance lead is not really that much more than the other two cards at around 5% or so more performance.

Which means, if you want the best bang for the buck, the 5850 is the card to get. Especially if you overclock. If you get a nice lucky chip, it may damn near equal the performance of most overclocked 5870s.
Click to expand...

Eh? A lucky overclocked 5850 can match an overclocked 5870? How's that possible? Doesn't the 5870 have an automatic advantage from having more cores and whatnot?

I'm personally deciding between the three cards myself but given the 5870 is US$20 cheaper than the 470 around here... not terribly hard decision on ATI vs Nvidia. But how can the 5850 compare to the 5870?
 
A_Dying_Wren said:
But how can the 5850 compare to the 5870?
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If 5870 is cheaper than GTX470, then it's a no brainer decision.

5850 is 725mhz, 1440 shaders
5870 is 850mhz, 1600 shaders

The 2 cards have the same ROPs and only 8 difference in texture units. Therefore at about 950mhz on the GPU, 5850 will become similar in speed.

5850s also overclock extremely well: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010_4.html#sect0

The only problem is beyond 975mhz and 1.20V on the GPU, the power consumption is unreasonable.

But if you aren't going to overclock, get the 5870.
 
I think the whole MSRP thing this generation, especially with the 58xx cards, is sort of a joke. This may sound sort of wrong, but in a way they were priced too low for the market. If you look at the prices of the 48xx and 2xx cards from ATI and NV at the time the 58xx cards were launched, they were just a much better bang for the buck. Nothing wrong with that, except that it wasn't remotely possible to keep them in stock at their original pricing.

It leads me to believe that the intention was never to really sell many cards at the original MSRP, and that the 5850 and 5870 cards were launched with the idea that they would sell for $300-325 and $400-450 respectively. However, it was good to get the deflated MSRP listed in all the launch reviews.

That being said, I think all the cards right now between ATI's 5xxx series and NV's GTX 4xx are priced appropriately for their performance rackets.
 
I don't know why there is so much complaining. Usually the top card is $600 or more, and now people can get great performance for $400 or less. And TSMC has low yields on top of it. I think you all should keep things in perspective. I believe the MSRP went up on the 5850/70 after a couple of months because of the yield issues. Why would people complain about a $259 card that was second fastest at launch anyway? LOL You should have been all over it if you were ready to upgrade.
 
Usualy? No, the $600+ pricepoint for reference top end cards is a very recent development. Everyone has now been conditioned to expect it, and $300 and under are now "reasonable" prices for a mainstream performance card.

Yes, I made the mistake of not upgrading in September. I had no idea how terrible the yields on 40nm were or how late NV would be with their part. If I knew then what I know now, hell yeah, I'd have bought the first 5850s out of the gate. Or, more likely, a 4890 for $130ish.

In contrast to that I believe NV's parts will get less expensive over time. There are already rebates on the 470s bringing them within a few $ of current 5850 street prices. Not sure what the difference is but NV is making at least as many cards as people are demanding. In other words, I think Charlie was full of crap with his prediction of 8000 fermis world wide.
 
SlowSpyder said:
The 470 seems to be 5-10&#37; faster than the 5850, so you have to decide if that performance bump is worth the extra money to you. Yea, the 470 uses much more power and produces more heat than the 5850, depending on your setup and preferences that may or may not be a big deal to you.

If you don't mind tinkering and overclocking than I think the 5850 is the card to get in my opinion. It seems that every reference 5850 will hit 900MHz+ with a voltage bump, many will get to 1GHz. The 470's seem to be a bit more finicky from what I've seen on forums/reviews. Some will overclock to 480+ performance, some will barely budge.

I really, really like my 5870 (the only reason I got it instead of a 5850 was because of a better than expected tax return) but if I were buying today I'd probably go with the 5850 and overclock as far as I can. It's the best bang for the buck of the performance/enthusiast cards in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Are there any tests comparing 470 GTX overclocked performance to HD5850 overclocked performance?
 
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happy medium said:
The 5850 is now more then 5&#37; slower then the gtx 470 with the newest driver. In fact it come dangerously close to the 5870 alot of times.

Newest review.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gigabyte-gf-gtx400_17.html

The gtx 480 is now more then 20% faster then the 5870 also, with the latest drivers.

I believe both these cards will get even faster with better drivers.
Click to expand...
Although I've struggled to find a thread here that doesn't have you in it pimping NVidia cards I thought I'd remind you that your beloved GTX470 has already been canceled.....so good luck holding out for"driver improvements".^_^

The ice is thin, Will. One more inflammatory post that can only be for inciting a war, you're gone.
Anandtech Moderator - Keysplayr
 
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