So, when will the US go bankrupt?

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,204
12,699
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I was reading the Washington Post and Times the other day and one of the articles was about Congress wanting to block the purchase of more F22 fighters for the Air Force, to the tune of 1/2 to 1 billion dollars, IIRC. Congress and Secretary of Defense Gates claimed that the fighters were not wanted nor needed (which I found a bit odd, but I digress).

At any rate, however, the next article I read was about the rising projected costs of the health care reform plan by Congress and Obama's intent to press the bill into law this year. And yet, the purchase of these aircraft would require skilled workers that (surprise!) will have to pay taxes that will fund initiatives like this one way or another. I sense a small bit of irony here.

Now, with debt currently at $11 T, I can only shudder at the fact that Congress is trying to expand the responsibilities of the federal government without having any solid way of paying for it (yes, let's tax the rich so they'll try and find even more tax deductions and take investments elsewhere where taxes aren't so high). At some point, our creditors are going to refuse loans, and what then? Do we just sell the entire US?

As someone who is about to enter the real world from college, and is very much a financial conservative (religiously tracking my spending and money available; ensuring I can pay my bills in full each month), I unfortunately see Congress running the entire country into the ground. A little bit of debt is a good thing - after all, that's how people buy houses and cars. Most of us simply can't afford to pay hundreds of thousands in cash. But that bit of debt people pay back over a period of time. Currently, we are only paying the interest on our national debt. The interest amounts to about $300B, which is ~10% of the yearly federal budget. What happens when interest rates rise? What happens when health care reform inevitably costs more than projected (and it's already at 1.5T), and our debt increases? Unless Congress makes some major shifts in spending behavior, I am honestly quite uncertain about the future of our country. Our debt will consume larger and larger portions of the national budget, and to combat this taxes will inevitably rise (because I don't see Congress cutting programs). We will be in roughly the same position now - but only with less money than before. What happens when we are bled dry?

Terrorism may be a threat to national security, but with every new spending bill, it seems to me that our national debt should be the greatest concern of all.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
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Do you need f22's to fight terrorism? or better foreign policies, so that other western countries shoulder their part of the burden of straightening out bent countries. They (terrorists) have no serious anti-air capabilities, they couldn't bring down a f14 even now, as has been stated in other posts about Afghanistan or is this about being the world's most superior overlord, if that's the case then maybe you should have a health system at lest as good as or even better then other major western countries before you worry about being the most militarily forceful nation in the world. Again, I believe it really about capitalist cronyism-definition supplied gratis-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
I would think free world unity is the greatest and most affective weapon against terrorism of any description, even financial engineering or authoritarianism.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
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This Congress is either suicidal or homicidal - I cant decide which. At least in Obama's case I know he wants to cut US down to size and pushes US over a cliff intentionally.. Other Dems seem gleeful about having China do better than US.

The US is basically bankrupt now and our loan shark (China) keeps us going and we may have major shocks in the near future. It's amazing that with articles like below many in Congress will still not "get it". Maybe they are on too much Prozac like Nancy Pelosi who is saturated in it.

The Debt Tsunami
The CBO's latest warning on the long-term deficit is scarier than ever.

"Now comes the CBO with yet more news of the sort that neither Capitol Hill nor the White House is likely to welcome: its freshly released report on the federal government's long-term financial situation. To put it bluntly, the fiscal policy of the United States is unsustainable. Debt is growing faster than gross domestic product. Under the CBO's most realistic scenario, the publicly held debt of the U.S. government will reach 82 percent of GDP by 2019 -- roughly double what it was in 2008. By 2026, spiraling interest payments would push the debt above its all-time peak (set just after World War II) of 113 percent of GDP. It would reach 200 percent of GDP in 2038."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...7/AR2009062701979.html

Of course cap and charade and Obamacare would be two more nuclear tipped harpoons into Americas economy - who Obama stalks with bad intent like Captain Ahab stalked Moby Dick.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
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Originally posted by: gingermeggs
Do you need f22's to fight terrorism? or better foreign policies, so that other western countries shoulder their part of the burden of straightening out bent countries. They (terrorists) have no serious anti-air capabilities, they couldn't bring down a f14 even now, as has been stated in other posts about Afghanistan or is this about being the world's most superior overlord, if that's the case then maybe you should have a health system at lest as good as or even better then other major western countries before you worry about being the most militarily forceful nation in the world. Again, I believe it really about capitalist cronyism-definition supplied gratis-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
I would think free world unity is the greatest and most affective weapon against terrorism of any description, even financial engineering or authoritarianism.



Figures you totally leave out China. Too much bong for you maybe.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
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China could be dealt with a diplomatic stick in the form of environmental and humanitarian restrictions on imports from countries in breach of contract to all nations in a worldwide trade agreement, make a terms of conditions contract for free world trade, those that don't meet the set criteria aren't allow to export or import from the other countries signed to that contract. Have an international independent body that audits countries that are suspect of being breach and enforced by all signatories to that agreement.
How does that grab ya?
Maybe the USA would be in breach of the universal health provision standards that would be made, meaning in breath on humanitarian grounds.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
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Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Originally posted by: gingermeggs
Do you need f22's to fight terrorism? or better foreign policies, so that other western countries shoulder their part of the burden of straightening out bent countries. They (terrorists) have no serious anti-air capabilities, they couldn't bring down a f14 even now, as has been stated in other posts about Afghanistan or is this about being the world's most superior overlord, if that's the case then maybe you should have a health system at lest as good as or even better then other major western countries before you worry about being the most militarily forceful nation in the world. Again, I believe it really about capitalist cronyism-definition supplied gratis-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
I would think free world unity is the greatest and most affective weapon against terrorism of any description, even financial engineering or authoritarianism.



Figures you totally leave out China. Too much bong for you maybe.

Now you throw a drug accusation at me, your on drugs if you think china could come close to combined free world forces. China has tibet and you guys had Vietnam and Iraq's blood on your hands, and tell me it's for anything better then resource control and I'll think of you as an even greater idiot then myself.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Terrorism may be a threat to national security, but with every new spending bill, it seems to me that our national debt should be the greatest concern of all.
Osama knew that. Killing 3000 Americans on 9/11 was an afterthought; getting us involved in two very expensive wars was his real victory.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
If bankruptcy is your main concern, just move to China. I hear they are running surpluses.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,633
9,914
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Topic Title: So, when will the US go bankrupt?

Not soon enough.

The faster we go bankrupt the better so the rich and the Republicans get the fuck out of here.

Yes, Democrats don't have any money.... you partisan hack.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,664
6,726
126
F: I was reading the Washington Post and Times the other day and one of the articles was about Congress wanting to block the purchase of more F22 fighters for the Air Force, to the tune of 1/2 to 1 billion dollars, IIRC. Congress and Secretary of Defense Gates claimed that the fighters were not wanted nor needed (which I found a bit odd, but I digress).

M: Don't digress if you are just going to crap and leave it. Who cares what you think is odd if you have nothing else to say about it.

F: At any rate, however, the next article I read was about the rising projected costs of the health care reform plan by Congress and Obama's intent to press the bill into law this year. And yet, the purchase of these aircraft would require skilled workers that (surprise!) will have to pay taxes that will fund initiatives like this one way or another. I sense a small bit of irony here.

M: That's not irony you smell, You've wrapped your head in your colon. We can create jobs as easily making buggy whips, but instead we try to create jobs that have a ripple effect, that produce real value to the economy which jet plains do not.


F: Now, with debt currently at $11 T, I can only shudder......

M: You seem to attribute some significance to the fact that you shutter. That can happen biting on a Popsicle stick.

F: at the fact that Congress is trying to expand the responsibilities of the federal government without having any solid way of paying for it (yes, let's tax the rich so they'll try and find even more tax deductions and take investments elsewhere where taxes aren't so high).

M: No, lets throw our latest stereotypical talking point trained monkey response in here at the mention of the trigger worked, Congress.

F: At some point, our creditors are going to refuse loans, and what then? Do we just sell the entire US?

M: Sure, we are going live on the moon anyway, so why not. One nut case scenario, I am sure, deserves another, no?

F: As someone who is about to enter the real world from college,

M: And therefore has no real world experience but yet is still stuffed full of all kinds of trained opinions

F: and is very much a financial conservative (religiously tracking my spending and money available; ensuring I can pay my bills in full each month), I unfortunately see Congress running the entire country into the ground.

M: As if there were any real world correlation between you and the government regarding spending

F: A little bit of debt is a good thing - after all, that's how people buy houses and cars. Most of us simply can't afford to pay hundreds of thousands in cash. But that bit of debt people pay back over a period of time. Currently, we are only paying the interest on our national debt. The interest amounts to about $300B, which is ~10% of the yearly federal budget. What happens when interest rates rise? What happens when health care reform inevitably costs more than projected (and it's already at 1.5T), and our debt increases?

M: What happens if you pull your head out of your ass so fast your ears pop?

F: Unless Congress makes some major shifts in spending behavior, I am honestly quite uncertain about the future of our country.

M: There is nothing to be done for people who self induce a state of terror by walking around awake in their own self created nightmares.

F: Our debt will consume larger and larger portions of the national budget, and to combat this taxes will inevitably rise (because I don't see Congress cutting programs).

M: There are two reasons we don't see things. It can be they are not there or it can be that we are blind.

F: We will be in roughly the same position now - but only with less money than before. What happens when we are bled dry?

M: What happens if you get a job and have kids and life goes on happily for you?

F: Terrorism may be a threat to national security, but with every new spending bill, it seems to me that our national debt should be the greatest concern of all.

M: Good to hear that "it seems to me". I know nothing and have no opinion. I'm also not wound up like a top.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Topic Title: So, when will the US go bankrupt?

Not soon enough.

The faster we go bankrupt the better so the rich and the Republicans get the fuck out of here.

When we go BK we might as well be an oligarchy or whatever that government structure is with nobles and stuff.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Topic Title: So, when will the US go bankrupt?

Not soon enough.

The faster we go bankrupt the better so the rich and the Republicans get the fuck out of here.

Pithy summation of part of Obama's plan
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Topic Title: So, when will the US go bankrupt?

Not soon enough.

The faster we go bankrupt the better so the rich and the Republicans get the fuck out of here.

Nice troll, I see 1 person has already taken the bait. Serious business here, no joking allowed.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,877
55,103
136
Guys, go look up 'intergovernmental debt', 'internal debt', and 'external debt'. After that, realize that it is literally impossible for the US government to go bankrupt.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Wow, Fenixgoon, you really tripped on Moonbeam's toes! Moonbeam must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed!

And dmcowen674, are you really an anarchist or another Robespierre just waiting for the revolution?

Fenixgoon, I found your post and concern very typical of a lot of young adults that are leaving the liberal cocoon found in American academia and confronting the reality of surviving and, hopefully, prospering. Your worry on burgeoning national debt is spot on.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,633
9,914
136
Originally posted by: jpeyton
If bankruptcy is your main concern, just move to China. I hear they are running surpluses.

The problem is the United States government will not go broke. It'll merely inflate the currency to pay off its debts. It is the American people whose money will be made worthless, whose cost of living will skyrocket. It is the people who go broke in this scenario.

You can start caring for their plight at some point.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Guys, go look up 'intergovernmental debt', 'internal debt', and 'external debt'. After that, realize that it is literally impossible for the US government to go bankrupt.

Maybe going bankrupt is the wrong term, but our money can be devalued so that it is worth very little on the world market. And that would spell trouble.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Now, with debt currently at $11 T, I can only shudder at the fact that Congress is trying to expand the responsibilities of the federal government without having any solid way of paying for it (yes, let's tax the rich so they'll try and find even more tax deductions and take investments elsewhere where taxes aren't so high). At some point, our creditors are going to refuse loans, and what then? Do we just sell the entire US?

we still have a relatively low debt-gdp ratio. Most countries already have much higher tax rates (western europe) and there is absolutely no evidence that they are falling behind or have a dearth of investment.

What happens when interest rates rise? What happens when health care reform inevitably costs more than projected (and it's already at 1.5T), and our debt increases?
iirc, that 1.5 trillion figure is over 10 years, making it cheaper than say, bushes tax cuts in 200(?)

Our debt will consume larger and larger portions of the national budget, and to combat this taxes will inevitably rise (because I don't see Congress cutting programs).
taxes should be increased now

 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
Democrats want slaves, not guns.

lololol


Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: jpeyton
If bankruptcy is your main concern, just move to China. I hear they are running surpluses.

The problem is the United States government will not go broke. It'll merely inflate the currency to pay off its debts. It is the American people whose money will be made worthless, whose cost of living will skyrocket. It is the people who go broke in this scenario.

You can start caring for their plight at some point.

inflation doesn't hurt workers very much, at least relative to owners. Wages adjust, bond values don't. Inflation would theoretically benefit everyone with a fixed mortgage for instance.

 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,633
9,914
136
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Our debt will consume larger and larger portions of the national budget, and to combat this taxes will inevitably rise (because I don't see Congress cutting programs).
taxes should be increased now

Or cut spending. Taxes will still take money out of the people's pockets.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,633
9,914
136
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
inflation doesn't hurt workers very much, at least relative to owners. Wages adjust, bond values don't. Inflation would theoretically benefit everyone with a fixed mortgage for instance.

You seem prone to engaging in class warfare, with no regard for the employee whose employer you are attacking.

Careful what you wish for.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Our debt will consume larger and larger portions of the national budget, and to combat this taxes will inevitably rise (because I don't see Congress cutting programs).
taxes should be increased now

Or cut spending. Taxes will still take money out of the people's pockets.

cutting spending is a moronic idea when basic national infrastructure is crumbling, although that does appear to to be a libertopian policy.