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So WHEN is the next big thing for the high end happening?

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
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Seems like AMD will have something for the lower end to compete with NVIDIA soon but how about at the top end? My understanding is that the 2080 Ti is roughly 30% faster than a 1080 Ti. When is the next product cycle that will drive something at least 2X faster than a 1080 Ti? Any ruminations are appreciated.
 

ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
1,028
419
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Seems like AMD will have something for the lower end to compete with NVIDIA soon but how about at the top end? My understanding is that the 2080 Ti is roughly 30% faster than a 1080 Ti. When is the next product cycle that will drive something at least 2X faster than a 1080 Ti? Any ruminations are appreciated.
2X a 1080TI? you'll be waiting awhile, likely 2021-2022 for NVIDIA. 1.5-1.75x will be the 3000 series in 2020.

AMD/Intel, 2023-2025?
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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AMD/Intel, 2023-2025?
Intel seems to think they'll challenge the 2080Ti by 2020 (or come within 10% of it). No telling how far or fast they will go.

AMD, on the other hand, flirted with complete abandonment of the high-end. Radeon VII was a stopgap that prevented that from happening on a temporary or permanent basis. It is still possible that AMD will bow out from the high-end graphics market if they can't get Navi (or their next product) to scale up well.
 

Guru

Senior member
May 5, 2017
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Why is everyone assuming that Navi is purely low end cards? From the hints we've gotten from Lisa Su and people at AMD it seems like it is a full range of GPU's. Will there be a RTX 2080ti competitor? Maybe not, but from all of the info and hints it seems to me that Navi is a full product range, from low end to high end, with MAYBE the exception of a 2080ti type performance. Maybe we'll see Navi scale to RTX 2080 only, but even that seems strange since Radeon 7 is already competing with the 2080, so I think they will have a GPU that is going to compete with the RTX 2080ti.

Everyone needs to understand that Navi is a new architecture and its been in development for 3 years and it is on the latest 7nm process, I expect a huge jump in performance, much the same way Polaris was going from 28nm to 14nm.

Yeah AMD are late to the party, but if they are able to utilize 7nm properly and in their sweet time really optimized their architecture, they are going to come out very strong. In fact I expect every single GPU they release to be about 10% faster than their Nvidia alternative for the same price.
 

Yotsugi

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2017
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Why is everyone assuming that Navi is purely low end cards
People just don't believe in anything but the allmighty leather jacket.
but from all of the info and hints it seems to me that Navi is a full product range, from low end to high end
Because it is.
Everyone needs to understand that Navi is a new architecture and its been in development for 3 years
Some bits were gestating even longer.
much the same way Polaris was going from 28nm to 14nm.
Polaris wasn't that much of a uArch change, but on the opposite side, the jump to FinFETs was way bigger than jump to 7FF.
In fact I expect every single GPU they release to be about 10% faster than their Nvidia alternative for the same price.
You're in for a surprise.
 
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Yotsugi

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Oct 16, 2017
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exquisitechar

Senior member
Apr 18, 2017
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<2Q away and that's if AMD doesn't feel the itch to pull it in.
Yeah, that would be good, especially since Nvidia seems to be in no rush to release 7nm GeForce. I was thinking of the early 2020 rumor(s).
As if anything would change.
Sadly, probably true.
It's cheap and fast.
No one will buy it, because it's Radeon, but the thing would be a cool statement.
We have similar expectations, then. I'll buy it if it meets them.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Why is everyone assuming that Navi is purely low end cards?
My assumption is that we'll have Navi10 at the midrange and Navi12 as low/mid and low-end. They'll do a good job of replacing Polaris. Where AMD goes with Navi from there is anyone's guess. But I would not expect Navi to hit Radeon VII levels anytime soon.
 

Yotsugi

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2017
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exquisitechar

Senior member
Apr 18, 2017
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N7 cost@xtor isn't exactly favourable right now, plus they've already launched Turing.
AMD instead bet everything on their N7 products, both CPUs and GPUs.
Yep, hope that bet pays off on the GPU side. Not worried about the CPU side.
That's what most people expect anyway.
Seems like a lot of people don't, after Vega and the RX 590. For example, unlike the poster you originally replied to, when I think "cheap and fast" I don't think of being 10% faster than Turing at each tier...months later.
 

Yotsugi

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2017
1,029
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Guess we'll have to wait and see if you're right then. Pardon my skepticism.
Well you have every right to be skeptical about any 2019 AMD product besides Rome because they don't talk about them.
They just don't.
We on twitter are still busy throwing feces around over whether or not Rome will in fact go 4p.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,588
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I expect a huge jump in performance, much the same way Polaris was going from 28nm to 14nm.
Polaris was in fact underwhelming. It's even now barley faster than Hawaii. Yeah it uses less power but the the jump NV did form 28 to 14 was far bigger. Thing is with polaris you could buy a hawaii card for <$250 already in 2013 so 6 years ago. The performance/$ increase is marginal at best.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,085
1,613
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When is the next product cycle that will drive something at least 2X faster than a 1080 Ti? Any ruminations are appreciated.
Probably take 2 generations, if not 3 from that. So early as the next RTX series, but it could need a generation after that to reach it. 2020 early, 2021-2022 is also possible.

14/12 to 7 is basically 28 to 14, so the "two node jump" is really one full node equivalent historically. Gains with ray tracing will likely quite big, but traditional rasterization performance? Expect less not more. Imagine the 30% gain every 1-1.5 year becoming 20%, or the same 30% every 3 years.

For AMD/Intel it depends on whether they are aiming to be serious competitors and if they meet their goals. The Xe reveal for Intel shows an enthusiast tag, but that can just as well mean x80 non-Ti level card in a super compact format a la Kaby-G rather than x80 Ti level performance in a discrete card.
 
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TypoFairy©

Member
Jul 29, 2003
77
36
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Seems like AMD will have something for the lower end to compete with NVIDIA soon but how about at the top end? My understanding is that the 2080 Ti is roughly 30% faster than a 1080 Ti. When is the next product cycle that will drive something at least 2X faster than a 1080 Ti? Any ruminations are appreciated.
Hard to say. It feels like these days we get such mediocre upgrades over previous generations. It will probably come down to whether or not Navi is good enough to coax some competition back into the market.
 

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,430
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Well, with the VR market really heating up this year (Reverb, Index, Varjo, etc...) it would seem that both NV and AMD have a free ride on the wave of mfg prosperity that will move their way if they have a superior offering to drive the new gen of HMDs... Of course if foveated rendering is figured out, the need for brute pixel pushing power just wont be there... But, maybe another year or so before that happens... After the Ryzen good "surprise" to the market, I'm expecting/hoping for something similar in the GPU realm.
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,778
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It's cheap and fast.
No one will buy it, because it's Radeon, but the thing would be a cool statement.
I really dont belive this based on last 4years of AMD launches.
Vega64:1.5year later than GTX1080 with same performance and for same money.
RX590:Overclocked rx480/580 for 50usd more for no reason.Worst performance/price of all midrange GPU.
Radeon7:2years later than 1080TI for same performance and same money.
AMD pretty much dont compete with nvida at all.All they do is matching NV performance 1-2years later with same MSRP.That is not competition.
I bet navi will be once again same performance for same money.So if its 2070 level it will cost 500usd.If its 1660TI level it will cost 280usd.
 
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Dribble

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2005
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Navi is still very much wait and see - I'd be very wary building it up too much right now given AMD's past history. Imo the next big thing is likely to be the Nvidia 7nm cards whenever they come. I expect AMD's next big thing to be later then that and based off the work done for consoles, which I suspect have been the main focus for GPU development in 2018/19.
 

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