So what's up with PS3 installations?

[Queasy]

Link

Tired of mandatory hard drive installs on PlayStation 3? Blame Blu-ray and DVD.

Capcom took a public stoning last month when ?Devil May Cry 4? was released on PS3 with a mandatory 20-minute installation not necessary on Xbox 360.

Since then, Capcom VP of business development and strategic planning Christian Svennsson told me his company didn?t realize the issue would ?blow up.? He says the company will take the response into account for future releases.

Figuring out why some games require these installs has been like pulling teeth. Publishers don?t want to talk about it, and Sony won?t come clean for them. I contacted multiple parties ? chiefly Capcom, Sony, and Ubisoft ? while researching this story and hit stone walls at almost every turn.

Nonetheless, we?ve been getting close to an answer, and everything comes back to a developer spending enough time to understand the unique characteristics of Blu-ray. It?s Blu-ray?s ?fault,? but not because it?s slow tech. It?s just different tech.

This is what I?ve learned:

The PS3 version of ?Lost Planet? requires installs, too. As does ?Lost: Via Domus? and ?Hot Shots Golf? from Sony. But ?Dark Sector? and many other PS3 releases don?t.

The issue arises from differences in the reading techniques of DVD and Blu-ray. By nature, the outer and inner parts of a disc move at different speeds while a disc is spinning, regardless of format (CD, DVD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc.). While DVD drives can read data at those differing speeds, Blu-ray reads at one speed. Combine that with the extremely large size of Blu-ray discs, and simply dumping existing DVD data onto a Blu-ray disc will inevitably result in longer load times.

Installations are a way around this issue.

When a publisher asks you to install a game on PS3, it?s because they?re moving some of the disc data to an area of your console that has much faster read access: the hard drive. You get vastly reduced loading times, but have to sit through an installation.

There are other ways to combat this, as we can infer from ?Dark Sector,? ?Call of Duty 4,? ?Burnout Paradise? ? all multi-platform titles without installs. Based on conversations we?ve had with several developers, catering to Blu-ray is hardly impossible, but requires work. Some developers copy their game?s data on the disc multiple times, giving the drive more areas to seek the same exact data from. Others spent time optimizing streaming techniques.

Bethesda Softworks executive producer Todd Howard recently publicly confirmed the duplicated data technique as a strategy on his company?s ?Fallout 3.? ?Small things like this can make a huge difference over the course of a game,? he told PlayStation: The Official Magazine.

Some games, like ?Unreal Tournament III,? make the process optional. Epic Games recommends doing it, but if you want to save space, they won?t stop you. In my weeks playing ?UT3,? the reduced loading was worth the trouble. The seconds saved between firefights adds up over hundreds of matches.

 

[destrekor]

Makes sense. And I saw this coming from a mile away regarding duplicated data and whatnot (padding data in Resistance too)... because when BD was first being heralded for the PS3... read speeds and the mechanisms involved were carefully detailed in different comparisons between the 360's DVD drive and the PS3's BD drive. The BD drive, from day one, has been detailed as having a constant spin and read speed, so in effect the interior and exterior surfaces will stream slower since the read speed never compensates.

I wonder if this is a limitation of BD, or if it's merely a limitation of the PS3's drive, and if future, faster drives will either correct this issue or just be fast enough to prevent it from presenting itself as a problem.

+

 

[Modeps]

I'm amazed that the multiplayer blog is as good as it is... There are several worthwhile stories on there. It must not really be run by the people at MTV.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Modeps
I'm amazed that the multiplayer blog is as good as it is... There are several worthwhile stories on there. It must not really be run by the people at MTV.

Yeah, it's become required reading for me. And that's saying something for as much as I loathe MTV.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: destrekor
I wonder if this is a limitation of BD, or if it's merely a limitation of the PS3's drive, and if future, faster drives will either correct this issue or just be fast enough to prevent it from presenting itself as a problem.

+

I think it is a limitation of the drive in the PS3. I don't know if this will ever be solved for the PS3 though as don't they have to keep the specs locked for consistency for developers?

It probably won't be a limitation for the next generation of consoles.

 

[Thraxen]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'd rather have the installs and the quiet, albeit slower, drive versus the 360's generally faster streaming on a screaming banshee of a drive. Other than a few seek noises, there is no audible noise level difference between the PS3 idle and the PS3's BR drive spinning up. I REALLY like that. My 360 idle is actually louder than my PS3 running a disc game. My 360 running a disc based game is obscene.

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: Modeps
I'm amazed that the multiplayer blog is as good as it is... There are several worthwhile stories on there. It must not really be run by the people at MTV.

Yea, I enjoy Stephen Totilo work. He officially won me over when he stated that Desktop Tower Defense was his game of the year last year last year.

 

[mugs]

It?s Blu-ray?s ?fault,? but not because it?s slow tech. It?s just different tech.

Well yeah, it is because it's slow (slower - for now). The whole rest of the article deals with ways developers try to work around the slowness.

Originally posted by: Thraxen
I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'd rather have the installs and the quiet, albeit slower, drive versus the 360's generally faster streaming on a screaming banshee of a drive. Other than a few seek noises, there is no audible noise level difference between the PS3 idle and the PS3's BR drive spinning up. I REALLY like that. My 360 idle is actually louder than my PS3 running a disc game. My 360 running a disc based game is obscene.

I don't particularly care about the noise from the system, because I have the volume loud enough and I'm focused on the game so I don't even notice it.

But I wouldn't complain about a mandatory install either. It's a one-time thing so I don't really care if it takes a half hour, and the PS3 has enough disk space to handle plenty of installs.

 

[purbeast0]

i must say these installations are pretty annoying but once its done you dont care.

it was frustrating when iw ent to play hot shots for the first time and was going to hop online and play my friend.

but i put it in and had to install which was like 15 mins.

then i go to conect to PSn and had to download an update.

needless to say it was about 40 minutes from when i was going to play until i actually did play.

it also sucks that this install is mandatory to get the ps3 to have "normal" read speeds.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'd rather have the installs and the quiet, albeit slower, drive versus the 360's generally faster streaming on a screaming banshee of a drive. Other than a few seek noises, there is no audible noise level difference between the PS3 idle and the PS3's BR drive spinning up. I REALLY like that. My 360 idle is actually louder than my PS3 running a disc game. My 360 running a disc based game is obscene.

Link

The 360 idle is actually the quietest console of the bunch. Agreements on the DVD drive though.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian

Originally posted by: Thraxen
I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'd rather have the installs and the quiet, albeit slower, drive versus the 360's generally faster streaming on a screaming banshee of a drive. Other than a few seek noises, there is no audible noise level difference between the PS3 idle and the PS3's BR drive spinning up. I REALLY like that. My 360 idle is actually louder than my PS3 running a disc game. My 360 running a disc based game is obscene.

Link

The 360 idle is actually the quietest console of the bunch. Agreements on the DVD drive though.

we're not asserting that this decibel test is entirely accurate, as the methodology was far from scientific, but the results were interesting -- and a bit unexpected -- to say the least

it doesnt even say anything about idle either? also the original link seems to be dead.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i must say these installations are pretty annoying but once its done you dont care.

it was frustrating when iw ent to play hot shots for the first time and was going to hop online and play my friend.

but i put it in and had to install which was like 15 mins.

then i go to conect to PSn and had to download an update.

needless to say it was about 40 minutes from when i was going to play until i actually did play.

it also sucks that this install is mandatory to get the ps3 to have "normal" read speeds.

to me the installs are a minor inconvenience, but having to update a brand new game is stupid. unfortunately its fast becoming the standard now, why cant developers stick to releasing complete games ffs?

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i must say these installations are pretty annoying but once its done you dont care.

it was frustrating when iw ent to play hot shots for the first time and was going to hop online and play my friend.

but i put it in and had to install which was like 15 mins.

then i go to conect to PSn and had to download an update.

needless to say it was about 40 minutes from when i was going to play until i actually did play.

it also sucks that this install is mandatory to get the ps3 to have "normal" read speeds.

to me the installs are a minor inconvenience, but having to update a brand new game is stupid. unfortunately its fast becoming the standard now, why cant developers stick to releasing complete games ffs?

it was the PSN update not a game update, i guess i shoulda clarified that. i just get crap speeds from the PSN, and being on DSL doesn't seem to help.

 

[Schadenfroh]

It would be nice if more games offered the install feature. FEAR has a lengthy load time on my PS3, if it had an install option for portions of the game, I am sure that it would help.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian
Link

The 360 idle is actually the quietest console of the bunch. Agreements on the DVD drive though.

Total and utter bullshit. Just look at the comments, people with both system are saying those results are wrong. The same thing ocurred when the results were posted on Joystiq. I actually got into a debate over this very issue just a couple of days ago on Joystiq. So, since I happen to own both systems and one of those popular Radio Shack decibel meters I tested it out myself. Unfortunately, the meter is more deisgned for speakers and such, so it doesn't go low enough to pick up the PS3 and barely low enough for the 360 at idle. BUT it DID pick up the 360, while idle, at the lowest setting (range 60). I couldn't even get the needle to twitch when putting it next on my PS3 WHILE running a game. And I have arguably the loudest PS3 model, a 60 GB version (40s are said to be quieter), and one of the "quieter" 360 models... a Falcon based Elite. My Elite is marginally quieter than my old Premium, but it's still far and away louder than my PS3. It's not even remotely close. Anyone with both systems can tell you the same.

But just look at that chart again. It actually shows that the 360 is the quietest with the DVD drive (media) running and the Wii as the loudest?? If you agree that with the DVD drive running the 360 is the loudest, surely you can see that the results are completely wrong in pretty much every single area.