so what is a "clean bulk"?

[BlahBlahYouToo]

is it just high protein, low fat and carbs?
can someone elaborate?

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

I would say bulking on "clean" foods instead of junk food. For example, fish oil, tuna, eggs, potatos, steak, oats, etc.. Junk food would be pizza, ice cream, donuts, soda, etc..

Google "a calorie is not a calorie".

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
is it just high protein, low fat and carbs?
can someone elaborate?

It's usually just not eating crappy garbage. It depends on what you eat, but it's usually higher something like 40/40/20 or 30/30/40 (fats, proteins, carbs). Or, it could be taking in only slightly more calories than you need and only gaining muscle, however slow it may be (meaning clean in the fact that you don't gain much fat).

 

[brikis98]

It's a pretty generic term that roughly refers to any method that lets you put on muscle mass while adding as little fat as possible. Standard bulking typically involves gaining some fat along with the muscle, so minimizing the fat gain is what makes a bulk "clean". There is no clear, guaranteed answer on how to do a clean bulk, but there are many different things you can try.

Obviously, the basic requirement is some form of resistance training to stimulate muscle growth. Also, various exercise methods are sometimes preferred for bulking, such as interval training (to minimize muscle loss during cardio) and very high intensity workouts in general (to boost metabolism, I guess). After that, it's pretty much all diet. Different people swear by various macro-nutrient (carbs, protein, fat) break downs, such as 40/30/30 ("the zone diet"), 40/40/20 ("bodybuilder diet") and many others. Caloric surplus is important as well, as you can't really add mass without it. To do a "clean" bulk, some people stick to a very tiny surplus (just a couple hundred calories per day), hoping to minimize fat gain in exchange for the bulk taking a lot longer overall. Particular food choices can also be part of a "clean" bulk - some people try very hard to avoid fats or greasy foods (low fat diet), some try to minimize carbs and maximize protein (low carb and atkins diets) and still others avoid any foods that are in any way processed/refined/unnatural (paleo diet). Finally, depending on who you ask, various supplements can supposedly help, from ephedrine & caffeine, to creatine and many others.

My personal recommendation is to keep it simple: eat a moderate caloric surplus (~500 calories/day), keep protein intake very high (~1g per pound of body weight), and lift heavy.

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: brikis98
It's a pretty generic term that roughly refers to any method that lets you put on muscle mass while adding as little fat as possible. Standard bulking typically involves gaining some fat along with the muscle, so minimizing the fat gain is what makes a bulk "clean". There is no clear, guaranteed answer on how to do a clean bulk, but there are many different things you can try.

Obviously, the basic requirement is some form of resistance training to stimulate muscle growth. Also, various exercise methods are sometimes preferred for bulking, such as interval training (to minimize muscle loss during cardio) and very high intensity workouts in general (to boost metabolism, I guess). After that, it's pretty much all diet. Different people swear by various macro-nutrient (carbs, protein, fat) break downs, such as 40/30/30 ("the zone diet"), 40/40/20 ("bodybuilder diet") and many others. Caloric surplus is important as well, as you can't really add mass without it. To do a "clean" bulk, some people stick to a very tiny surplus (just a couple hundred calories per day), hoping to minimize fat gain in exchange for the bulk taking a lot longer overall. Particular food choices can also be part of a "clean" bulk - some people try very hard to avoid fats or greasy foods (low fat diet), some try to minimize carbs and maximize protein (low carb and atkins diets) and still others avoid any foods that are in any way processed/refined/unnatural (paleo diet). Finally, depending on who you ask, various supplements can supposedly help, from ephedrine & caffeine, to creatine and many others.

My personal recommendation is to keep it simple: eat a moderate caloric surplus (~500 calories/day), keep protein intake very high (~1g per pound of body weight), and lift heavy.

That 1g/lb body weight with a 500 calorie excess seems like a bad way to increase muscle mass. 1.5 to 2g/lb with a 500 excess sounds better. The 1g/lb from what I've read is a minimum maintenance requirement. You must consume more than 1g/lb in order to develop bigger muscles. Carbohydrates are the fuel for muscle activity but protein is the building block for muscle tissue.

 

[KoolDrew]

so what is a "clean bulk"?

A "clean" bulk, by definition, is bulking on "clean" or healthy foods. However, as long as macros are the same it doesn't really matter in the end where those calories came from.

Clean eating is very overrated. I've eaten pizzas on diets with no negative effects. It's only when the pizza I had got out of hand and I ate too much, thus either going over my calorie goal or getting so close to my calorie goal that I don't have enough room to fit my protein in for the day. For a bulk this is much less of a problem as 1) calories are going to be higher anyway and 2) protein is still important, but does not need to be set as high as it does on a cut.

My recommendation is the same as brikis98's. Set calories slightly higher than maintenence, lift heavy, and get at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

so what is a "clean bulk"?

A "clean" bulk, by definition, is bulking on "clean" or healthy foods. However, as long as macros are the same it doesn't really matter in the end where those calories came from.

Clean eating is very overrated. I've eaten pizzas on diets with no negative effects. It's only when the pizza I had got out of hand and I ate too much, thus either going over my calorie goal or getting so close to my calorie goal that I don't have enough room to fit my protein in for the day. For a bulk this is much less of a problem as 1) calories are going to be higher anyway and 2) protein is still important, but does not need to be set as high as it does on a cut.

My recommendation is the same as brikis98's. Set calories slightly higher than maintenence, lift heavy, and get at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Can you explain 'slightly' above maintenance?

i.e, slightly above BMR, or above the total number of calories burned in a day?

If it's the latter, how do you figure out the total number of calories burned in a day? guesstimate?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: brikis98
It's a pretty generic term that roughly refers to any method that lets you put on muscle mass while adding as little fat as possible. Standard bulking typically involves gaining some fat along with the muscle, so minimizing the fat gain is what makes a bulk "clean". There is no clear, guaranteed answer on how to do a clean bulk, but there are many different things you can try.

Obviously, the basic requirement is some form of resistance training to stimulate muscle growth. Also, various exercise methods are sometimes preferred for bulking, such as interval training (to minimize muscle loss during cardio) and very high intensity workouts in general (to boost metabolism, I guess). After that, it's pretty much all diet. Different people swear by various macro-nutrient (carbs, protein, fat) break downs, such as 40/30/30 ("the zone diet"), 40/40/20 ("bodybuilder diet") and many others. Caloric surplus is important as well, as you can't really add mass without it. To do a "clean" bulk, some people stick to a very tiny surplus (just a couple hundred calories per day), hoping to minimize fat gain in exchange for the bulk taking a lot longer overall. Particular food choices can also be part of a "clean" bulk - some people try very hard to avoid fats or greasy foods (low fat diet), some try to minimize carbs and maximize protein (low carb and atkins diets) and still others avoid any foods that are in any way processed/refined/unnatural (paleo diet). Finally, depending on who you ask, various supplements can supposedly help, from ephedrine & caffeine, to creatine and many others.

My personal recommendation is to keep it simple: eat a moderate caloric surplus (~500 calories/day), keep protein intake very high (~1g per pound of body weight), and lift heavy.

That 1g/lb body weight with a 500 calorie excess seems like a bad way to increase muscle mass. 1.5 to 2g/lb with a 500 excess sounds better. The 1g/lb from what I've read is a minimum maintenance requirement. You must consume more than 1g/lb in order to develop bigger muscles. Carbohydrates are the fuel for muscle activity but protein is the building block for muscle tissue.

Do you know what you're talking about? 1g/lb is perfectly fine. You will gain a very adequate amount of lean muscle mass in the process. A person, in no way, must consume more than 1g/lb. Have you ever tried bulking with that plan? No? So you're pretty much assuming what all bodybuilders say is true. They keep it extremely high because their goals are usually a bit more extreme. But, I just wanted to clear up, the bolded area has no fundamental basis.

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: brikis98
It's a pretty generic term that roughly refers to any method that lets you put on muscle mass while adding as little fat as possible. Standard bulking typically involves gaining some fat along with the muscle, so minimizing the fat gain is what makes a bulk "clean". There is no clear, guaranteed answer on how to do a clean bulk, but there are many different things you can try.

Obviously, the basic requirement is some form of resistance training to stimulate muscle growth. Also, various exercise methods are sometimes preferred for bulking, such as interval training (to minimize muscle loss during cardio) and very high intensity workouts in general (to boost metabolism, I guess). After that, it's pretty much all diet. Different people swear by various macro-nutrient (carbs, protein, fat) break downs, such as 40/30/30 ("the zone diet"), 40/40/20 ("bodybuilder diet") and many others. Caloric surplus is important as well, as you can't really add mass without it. To do a "clean" bulk, some people stick to a very tiny surplus (just a couple hundred calories per day), hoping to minimize fat gain in exchange for the bulk taking a lot longer overall. Particular food choices can also be part of a "clean" bulk - some people try very hard to avoid fats or greasy foods (low fat diet), some try to minimize carbs and maximize protein (low carb and atkins diets) and still others avoid any foods that are in any way processed/refined/unnatural (paleo diet). Finally, depending on who you ask, various supplements can supposedly help, from ephedrine & caffeine, to creatine and many others.

My personal recommendation is to keep it simple: eat a moderate caloric surplus (~500 calories/day), keep protein intake very high (~1g per pound of body weight), and lift heavy.

That 1g/lb body weight with a 500 calorie excess seems like a bad way to increase muscle mass. 1.5 to 2g/lb with a 500 excess sounds better. The 1g/lb from what I've read is a minimum maintenance requirement. You must consume more than 1g/lb in order to develop bigger muscles. Carbohydrates are the fuel for muscle activity but protein is the building block for muscle tissue.

Do you know what you're talking about? 1g/lb is perfectly fine. You will gain a very adequate amount of lean muscle mass in the process. A person, in no way, must consume more than 1g/lb. Have you ever tried bulking with that plan? No? So you're pretty much assuming what all bodybuilders say is true. They keep it extremely high because their goals are usually a bit more extreme. But, I just wanted to clear up, the bolded area has no fundamental basis.

Yes I have tried it that way and no my goals are that extreme. It is not what just bodybuilders say it's what most say. Even endurance athletes need more than 1g/lb for maintenance. Research proves your methods incorrect:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414351
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/art...cdonald/protein-03.htm
http://journals.cambridge.org/...2420b75d1724b76fbc7feb

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: nixium

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

so what is a "clean bulk"?

A "clean" bulk, by definition, is bulking on "clean" or healthy foods. However, as long as macros are the same it doesn't really matter in the end where those calories came from.

Clean eating is very overrated. I've eaten pizzas on diets with no negative effects. It's only when the pizza I had got out of hand and I ate too much, thus either going over my calorie goal or getting so close to my calorie goal that I don't have enough room to fit my protein in for the day. For a bulk this is much less of a problem as 1) calories are going to be higher anyway and 2) protein is still important, but does not need to be set as high as it does on a cut.

My recommendation is the same as brikis98's. Set calories slightly higher than maintenence, lift heavy, and get at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Can you explain 'slightly' above maintenance?

i.e, slightly above BMR, or above the total number of calories burned in a day?

If it's the latter, how do you figure out the total number of calories burned in a day? guesstimate?

Track exactly what you eat each day on Fitday and weigh yourself first thing each morning. You can't really track how many calories you burn each day, but you can see trends in your weight and make adjustments from there.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: brikis98
It's a pretty generic term that roughly refers to any method that lets you put on muscle mass while adding as little fat as possible. Standard bulking typically involves gaining some fat along with the muscle, so minimizing the fat gain is what makes a bulk "clean". There is no clear, guaranteed answer on how to do a clean bulk, but there are many different things you can try.

Obviously, the basic requirement is some form of resistance training to stimulate muscle growth. Also, various exercise methods are sometimes preferred for bulking, such as interval training (to minimize muscle loss during cardio) and very high intensity workouts in general (to boost metabolism, I guess). After that, it's pretty much all diet. Different people swear by various macro-nutrient (carbs, protein, fat) break downs, such as 40/30/30 ("the zone diet"), 40/40/20 ("bodybuilder diet") and many others. Caloric surplus is important as well, as you can't really add mass without it. To do a "clean" bulk, some people stick to a very tiny surplus (just a couple hundred calories per day), hoping to minimize fat gain in exchange for the bulk taking a lot longer overall. Particular food choices can also be part of a "clean" bulk - some people try very hard to avoid fats or greasy foods (low fat diet), some try to minimize carbs and maximize protein (low carb and atkins diets) and still others avoid any foods that are in any way processed/refined/unnatural (paleo diet). Finally, depending on who you ask, various supplements can supposedly help, from ephedrine & caffeine, to creatine and many others.

My personal recommendation is to keep it simple: eat a moderate caloric surplus (~500 calories/day), keep protein intake very high (~1g per pound of body weight), and lift heavy.

That 1g/lb body weight with a 500 calorie excess seems like a bad way to increase muscle mass. 1.5 to 2g/lb with a 500 excess sounds better. The 1g/lb from what I've read is a minimum maintenance requirement. You must consume more than 1g/lb in order to develop bigger muscles. Carbohydrates are the fuel for muscle activity but protein is the building block for muscle tissue.

Do you know what you're talking about? 1g/lb is perfectly fine. You will gain a very adequate amount of lean muscle mass in the process. A person, in no way, must consume more than 1g/lb. Have you ever tried bulking with that plan? No? So you're pretty much assuming what all bodybuilders say is true. They keep it extremely high because their goals are usually a bit more extreme. But, I just wanted to clear up, the bolded area has no fundamental basis.

Yes I have tried it that way and no my goals are that extreme. It is not what just bodybuilders say it's what most say. Even endurance athletes need more than 1g/lb for maintenance. Research proves your methods incorrect:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414351
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/art...cdonald/protein-03.htm
http://journals.cambridge.org/...2420b75d1724b76fbc7feb

Huh? Your thinkmuscle site says under "Table 1: Protein and indispensable AA needs at different ages":

Age group Protein requirement (g/kg) Indispensable AAs (% of total)
Infant 1.8 43
Preschool child 1.2 32
School child 1.0 22
Adult (1) 0.6 11
Adult (2) 0.6 33
Strength athletes (3) 1.6-1.8 Undetermined
Endurance athletes (3) 1.2-1.4 Undetermined

Did you confuse g/kg? I don't have time right now to read the whole thing, but please get back to me. Also, the first article gave me a inaccessible glitch and the 3rd one requires a login so the thinkmuscle one was all I could access.

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: brikis98
It's a pretty generic term that roughly refers to any method that lets you put on muscle mass while adding as little fat as possible. Standard bulking typically involves gaining some fat along with the muscle, so minimizing the fat gain is what makes a bulk "clean". There is no clear, guaranteed answer on how to do a clean bulk, but there are many different things you can try.

Obviously, the basic requirement is some form of resistance training to stimulate muscle growth. Also, various exercise methods are sometimes preferred for bulking, such as interval training (to minimize muscle loss during cardio) and very high intensity workouts in general (to boost metabolism, I guess). After that, it's pretty much all diet. Different people swear by various macro-nutrient (carbs, protein, fat) break downs, such as 40/30/30 ("the zone diet"), 40/40/20 ("bodybuilder diet") and many others. Caloric surplus is important as well, as you can't really add mass without it. To do a "clean" bulk, some people stick to a very tiny surplus (just a couple hundred calories per day), hoping to minimize fat gain in exchange for the bulk taking a lot longer overall. Particular food choices can also be part of a "clean" bulk - some people try very hard to avoid fats or greasy foods (low fat diet), some try to minimize carbs and maximize protein (low carb and atkins diets) and still others avoid any foods that are in any way processed/refined/unnatural (paleo diet). Finally, depending on who you ask, various supplements can supposedly help, from ephedrine & caffeine, to creatine and many others.

My personal recommendation is to keep it simple: eat a moderate caloric surplus (~500 calories/day), keep protein intake very high (~1g per pound of body weight), and lift heavy.

That 1g/lb body weight with a 500 calorie excess seems like a bad way to increase muscle mass. 1.5 to 2g/lb with a 500 excess sounds better. The 1g/lb from what I've read is a minimum maintenance requirement. You must consume more than 1g/lb in order to develop bigger muscles. Carbohydrates are the fuel for muscle activity but protein is the building block for muscle tissue.

Do you know what you're talking about? 1g/lb is perfectly fine. You will gain a very adequate amount of lean muscle mass in the process. A person, in no way, must consume more than 1g/lb. Have you ever tried bulking with that plan? No? So you're pretty much assuming what all bodybuilders say is true. They keep it extremely high because their goals are usually a bit more extreme. But, I just wanted to clear up, the bolded area has no fundamental basis.

Yes I have tried it that way and no my goals are that extreme. It is not what just bodybuilders say it's what most say. Even endurance athletes need more than 1g/lb for maintenance. Research proves your methods incorrect:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414351
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/art...cdonald/protein-03.htm
http://journals.cambridge.org/...2420b75d1724b76fbc7feb

Two of the links you posted do not work and the article by Lyle McDonald specifically says grams of protein per kilogram of bofyweight NOT pounds. And since you seem to trust Lyles advice, he specifically reccomends 1.1-1.4 grams per pound for habitual (bulking or maintenence) and 1.4-1.5 for dieting. A bit higher than 1.0 grams, however that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with 1g per pound. There's actually not much research as far protein goes. There's many looking at nitrogen balance and stuff like that, but none as far as protien levels and performance. This is why Lyle uses a bit higher of a higher protein suggestion. He'd rather have athletes having more protein rather than too little, as there is no negative impact and may very well have a positive effect on things that have not been studied.

If you'd like to know more, read Lyles protein book. As for this discussion - there is no need to go above 1.5 grams. Even while dieting (when higher protein is even more important) Lyle only recommends 1.4-1.5. The only people who may need more than that are bodybuilders who are using steroids. None of us fall under this category.

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: nixium

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

so what is a "clean bulk"?

A "clean" bulk, by definition, is bulking on "clean" or healthy foods. However, as long as macros are the same it doesn't really matter in the end where those calories came from.

Clean eating is very overrated. I've eaten pizzas on diets with no negative effects. It's only when the pizza I had got out of hand and I ate too much, thus either going over my calorie goal or getting so close to my calorie goal that I don't have enough room to fit my protein in for the day. For a bulk this is much less of a problem as 1) calories are going to be higher anyway and 2) protein is still important, but does not need to be set as high as it does on a cut.

My recommendation is the same as brikis98's. Set calories slightly higher than maintenence, lift heavy, and get at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Can you explain 'slightly' above maintenance?

i.e, slightly above BMR, or above the total number of calories burned in a day?

If it's the latter, how do you figure out the total number of calories burned in a day? guesstimate?

Maintenance = how many calories it takes to maintain your current weight. This is usually around 14-16 cals per pound of bw, but that's just an estimate. To gain weight you would want to eat more than this. For example, say I'm 200lbs and my maintenance is 15 cals per pound (it will be lower or higher depending on metabolism), my maintenance would be about 3000 calories. To bulk I may start with just 3300.

However, all the above is just estimates. Maintenance can vary a lot depending on the individual and maintenance can even change from day to day. The key is to track your weight and make sure you are heading in the right direction. If somebody is trying to keep fat gain to a minimum, I'd try to keep weight gain at a pound a week or even lower. If you're gaining quite a bit more than this, you need to lower calories. If you're not even gaining half a pound, calories need to be increased.

Track exactly what you eat each day on Fitday and weigh yourself first thing each morning. You can't really track how many calories you burn each day, but you can see trends in your weight and make adjustments from there.

Due to the fact that weight can fluctuate a bit on a day to day basis, I would not track weight everyday. Weekly or even bi-weekly would probably be your best bet. The most important thing is to definitely be consistent though. Don't take your weight one week in the morning with just your underwear on and then the following week take your weight in the evening with a full belly and jeans on.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

Track exactly what you eat each day on Fitday and weigh yourself first thing each morning. You can't really track how many calories you burn each day, but you can see trends in your weight and make adjustments from there.

Due to the fact that weight can fluctuate a bit on a day to day basis, I would not track weight everyday. Weekly or even bi-weekly would probably be your best bet. The most important thing is to definitely be consistent though. Don't take your weight one week in the morning with just your underwear on and then the following week take your weight in the evening with a full belly and jeans on.

I like weighing myself each morning and then basing my decisions off of a 7-day moving average. It helps smooth out the day-to-day fluctuations that always occur.

 

[thetechman]

Some people really don't need a clean bulk. I don't put on much fat at all when I eat a lot of not so clean foods. It just depends. When clean bulking it's going to be harder to get the calories you need to gain mass, but it could be worth it. Everyone is different.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: thetechman
Some people really don't need a clean bulk. I don't put on much fat at all when I eat a lot of not so clean foods. It just depends. When clean bulking it's going to be harder to get the calories you need to gain mass, but it could be worth it. Everyone is different.

when i take in excess calories during bulk, it all goes to my gut.

i plan to take in most of my calories through a high protein diet, and cut the junk foods and carbs.

 

[KoolDrew]

i plan to take in most of my calories through a high protein diet, and cut the junk foods and carbs.

If you think lowered carbs will keep fat gain at bay, it won't. In fact lowering carbs is not something you'd want to do on a bulk anyway. Weight training can only be fueled by muscle glycogen, therefore carbohydrates are essential for maintaining performance in the weight room. Considering how you perform in the weight room will definitely have an effect on bulking, carbs should not be cut out.

Also, it's not completely necessary to cut the junk food. Again, as long as protein and calories are adequate, where they came from isn't going to matter. Also, eating clean may make bulking much more a chore than it should be. Obviously don't down a triple whopper, large fries, large coke and then go home and eat a box of oreos and claim it's OK because you're bulking, because it's not.

Assuming adequate protein intake, the most important thing while bulking to limit fat gain is the amount of surplus itself, not the macros, despite what you have heard about carbs making you fat. brikis98's recommendation was perfect, so I'll repeat it:

My personal recommendation is to keep it simple: eat a moderate caloric surplus (~500 calories/day), keep protein intake very high (~1g per pound of body weight), and lift heavy.

The only thing I might add if fat gain is a concern is timing extra calories around your workout. Some people will actually eat at maintenance on rest days and eat in a surplus on workout days, making sure to time the extra calories around the workout, which is definitely an option. Besides that definitely make sure you are getting sufficient carbs for peak performance and just let the rest fall where it may. Most people find moderate fat intake and moderate carb intake to work best. Too many carbs means low fat which just makes bulking not as enjoyable and low carbs makes it just as hard while hurting performance. Moderate carbs, moderate fat, high protein. Following that advice, just adjust calories up or down depending on how much weight you are gaining. If you really want to minimize fat gains I'd suggest aiming for 0.5-1 pound gained a week. All this advice is assuming you're actually tracking calories. If you're not, you should be.