Do we go back to life as it was before? Borrowing from the Chinese/Japanese to buy Chinese/Japanese products? What a great deal for them. One of our great exports, finance, is now damaged goods. That means our other great export, education, will hurt as well. This can't be good. I'm not saying we should be more protectionist going forward, but we need to have a more comprehensive approach to trade. Seeing how the Chinese are so hostile towards America, I don't think it's a good idea to keep giving them our hard earned money. Furthermore, the current system has benefited businesses more than consumers so I think we need to think long and hard about an alternative method. I think the European (continental, not Anglo-Saxon) approach to economics is smarter overall, even though it means more expensive products. Anyone else thinks this?
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So what happens if the recession ended tomorrow?
- Thread starter Dari
- Start date
Siddhartha
Lifer
I think the OP is asking how can the US recover its manufactoring base.
ProfJohn
Lifer
This is the first major recession most adults have experienced.
If we are lucky, and that is a big IF, then people will do a better job in preparing for the future. One good place to start would be with a higher personal savings rate.
But that has a draw back in that a higher savings rate would mean less spending and thus slower economic growth.
One thing that doesn't seem to have changed is our governments willingness to spend like crazy.
If we are lucky, and that is a big IF, then people will do a better job in preparing for the future. One good place to start would be with a higher personal savings rate.
But that has a draw back in that a higher savings rate would mean less spending and thus slower economic growth.
One thing that doesn't seem to have changed is our governments willingness to spend like crazy.
I agree. But it is hard to save when your own government doesn't. I mean I think people look at their government and see how it acts and say "fuck it, if they can do it so can I". Change has to start from the top and filter down. BTW, I noticed how Obama isn't telling Americans to save their hard-earned money. I think it's a national addiction.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
Our manufacturing sector is still very large relative to other countries. $14.26T GDP in 2008, 20.6% of which is industry, so $2.94T. Our industrial sector alone is larger than the entire economy of most countries. Just check out some of the data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Economy
For better or worse, globalism is here to stay. And looking at our exports, our country benefits tremendously from free trade. I think it would be kind of hypocritical to promote protectionist policies when we bring in well over $1T from exporting our products to other nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Economy
For better or worse, globalism is here to stay. And looking at our exports, our country benefits tremendously from free trade. I think it would be kind of hypocritical to promote protectionist policies when we bring in well over $1T from exporting our products to other nations.
One idea would be to lower our defense spending. We can do that by deepening our relationship with our allies, asking them to share more of the burden. That or we can "tax" them for protection. This would require a far more integrated military alliance not unlike nato, except for all our allies.
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
That's getting pretty old and tired.
With the partial exception of Clinton + Republicans for 6 years, no one has done anything other than spend like a drunken sailor at the National level for nearly 50 years (when Kennedy decided to go to the moon and damn the cost), maybe longer.
We have the same deal in Canada federally; there was an 8-10 year period of relative fiscal responsibility from 1993-2001, maybe a little later, but the last 5 years have been ridiculous again; I'd hate to see the books on either country if they were actually done with proper accounting.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
Bush's spending sucked, but I'd hope even Democrats can recognize that Obama has taken it to a whole new level. I'm not so much against increased spending if government increases taxes to pay for it, but no politician is willing to do that, so it looks like we're going to be posting some pretty high deficits over the next decade. It's an incredibly irresponsible policy IMO that is going to catch up with us eventually.
I guess the joke's on me, but I was hoping Obama would practice a little fiscal responsibility when he got into office. Doesn't look like that's going to happen.
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
But that's just the problem - Obama isn't taking it to another level, he's just following along.
This isn't supposed to be a 'Bush did it first' post, because when it comes to insane spending, he wasn't really a pioneer either. But the spending orgy began in the fall with the first bailout, not later with Obama in office.
The reality is, there is absolutely no one who is even trying to be fiscally responsible.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
I think the money will definitely be better spent domestically, but still, the spending is out of control.
miketheidiot
Lifer
savings gets spent on investment, thats why its called personal savings.
miketheidiot
Lifer
thats as much a problem of imploding tax base as increased spending.
Stoneburner
Diamond Member
Is that a gigabeat in your sig?
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
I'm not sure that would be true if you actually count W's deficits as 'how much the debt went up'. However, it still has nothing to do with my point, which is that the 'new normal' for fleecing the American public began the instant the credit crisis was truly apparent.
You don't get that many opportunities to throw trillions of dollars into the market, and have all the inflation hidden by the deflationary conditions of the market at large. And to be able to give ALL of it to your buddies with almost no meaningful resistance? Freakin orgasmic.
The good news is the spendfest will slow back to something more like the Bush years once the economy recovers enough to not be in a state of natural deflation.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
Supposed to be a Gameboy (even though it has the wrong number of buttons). I need to find a better version. 😛
edit: I don't so much have a problem with spending a lot to get us out of this recession, but the problem is that deficits are going to remain large for the next decade according to projections. Once the economy improves we need to start chipping away at the debt that we've racked up during the downturn.
edit: I don't so much have a problem with spending a lot to get us out of this recession, but the problem is that deficits are going to remain large for the next decade according to projections. Once the economy improves we need to start chipping away at the debt that we've racked up during the downturn.
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