So Trump doesn't want immigrants from "s***hole countries"

[soundforbjt]

Arguments from emotion mean absolutely nothing. Letting them move here en masse so they form their own tiny replica of the country they just fled only alienates them from the existing citizens, makes it harder to assimilate, and ultimately makes the immigration experience worse for all parties.

Like the ethnic areas in nearly every large city in this and many other countries? Travel much?

 

[feralkid]

Arguments from emotion mean absolutely nothing. Letting them move here en masse so they form their own tiny replica of the country they just fled only alienates them from the existing citizens, makes it harder to assimilate, and ultimately makes the immigration experience worse for all parties.

Arguments from emotion mean absolutely nothing. Letting them move here en masse so they form their own tiny replica of the country they just fled only alienates them from the existing citizens, makes it harder to assimilate, and ultimately makes the immigration experience worse for all parties.

How does it make the experience worse for the party that is about to fucking die?
Argument from emotion? Try a little human decency instead.

Ever read the inscription on the Statue of Liberty?
"Huddled Masses" = "En Masse", genius.
Which country did your immigrant ancestors come from?

Just another racist asshole in full-on denial.

 

[MajinCry]

How does it make the experience worse for the party that is about to fucking die?
Argument from emotion? Try a little human decency instead.

Ever read the inscription on the Statue of Liberty?
"Huddled Masses" = "En Masse", genius.
Which country did your immigrant ancestors come from?

Just another racist asshole in full-on denial.

That's a good point.

@child of wonder , What percentage of your ethnic background is Native American? If it's not 1/4, shut the fuck up, give your house to a Native from the res, and fuck off back to the Russo-European country of your ethnic origin.

Anyone want to guess what Child's response will be? I say he'll do the "we won they lost" shtick if he responds at all.

Also, how old are you? 60+?

 

[child of wonder]

Like the ethnic areas in nearly every large city in this and many other countries? Travel much?

Travel a ton. Been to Chinatown in San Francisco, Koreatown in Manhattan, little Mogadishu right here in Cedar-Riverside, etc. Most of the Somalian immigrants that live here are fantastic people who, like my ancestors, came to America for a better life. I applaud their bravery for making the move to a new, unfamiliar place to do what they felt was best for their family.

Why is it wrong to say "let's slow the rate of immigration to a level that allows immigrants to better blend in with their new home and, conversely, allow their new home to adapt to welcome them?"

I'm not talking about a drastic drop, stopping immigration, or any of the other stupid ideas the orange buffoon in the White House has pushed. Only that what we have today results in a predictable backlash of nationalism and xenophobia which are not good things.

How does it make the experience worse for the party that is about to fucking die?
Argument from emotion? Try a little human decency instead.

Ever read the inscription on the Statue of Liberty?
"Huddled Masses" = "En Masse", genius.
Which country did your immigrant ancestors come from?

Yes, I am a proponent of immigration. Have you even visited the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island? Do you know anything of immigration history or just argue because feels?

Just another racist asshole in full-on denial.

There it is. Any disagreement on this subject means someone is a racist. This is why polite discourse in our country is essentially dead -- children slinging insults.

You're obviously not worth wasting any further time on.

 

[ivwshane]

Travel a ton. Been to Chinatown in San Francisco, Koreatown in Manhattan, little Mogadishu right here in Cedar-Riverside, etc. Most of the Somalian immigrants that live here are fantastic people who, like my ancestors, came to America for a better life. I applaud their bravery for making the move to a new, unfamiliar place to do what they felt was best for their family.

Why is it wrong to say "let's slow the rate of immigration to a level that allows immigrants to better blend in with their new home and, conversely, allow their new home to adapt to welcome them?"

I'm not talking about a drastic drop, stopping immigration, or any of the other stupid ideas the orange buffoon in the White House has pushed. Only that what we have today results in a predictable backlash of nationalism and xenophobia which are not good things.



Yes, I am a proponent of immigration. Have you even visited the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island? Do you know anything of immigration history or just argue because feels?



There it is. Any disagreement on this subject means someone is a racist. This is why polite discourse in our country is essentially dead -- children slinging insults.

You're obviously not worth wasting any further time on.

What's the current rate of immigration? How many are immigrating to your state yearly? What's the ideal rate?

 

[child of wonder]

That's a good point.

@child of wonder , What percentage of your ethnic background is Native American? If it's not 1/4, shut the fuck up, give your house to a Native from the res, and fuck off back to the Russo-European country of your ethnic origin.

Anyone want to guess what Child's response will be? I say he'll do the "we won they lost" shtick if he responds at all.

Also, how old are you? 60+?

Depends. Are you coming with me? We could get a place together. Do you prefer big spoon or little spoon?

I'm a 38 year old white male that's voted 100% Democrat my entire life. I hate racism, white nationalism, religious bigotry, and am on the board of directors and a significant financial supporter of a non-profit atheist organization that promotes equal rights for women, minorities, and the LGBT community.

But I mostly detest people who can't have a civil disagreement with well meaning people on sensitive topics without pulling the race/phobe card, senseless appeals to emotion, or endless logical fallacies.

 

[fskimospy]

Perdue is on TV claiming Trump didn't say that. After first claiming he "could not recall".

Really high probability that a sitting Senator is lying his ass off directly to America in order to cover another Trump mouth fart.

Other Republicans say Trump was making calls bragging about it that same night because he thought it would play well with his base.

It’s almost a certainty that these guys are lying in order to try and muddy the waters because it’s turned into a PR disaster. It is pretty shameful how they are following Trump down into the character abyss where they are willing to lie about everything, no matter how trivial.

 

[MajinCry]

Depends. Are you coming with me? We could get a place together. Do you prefer big spoon or little spoon?

I'm a 38 year old white male that's voted 100% Democrat my entire life. I hate racism, white nationalism, religious bigotry, and am on the board of directors and a significant financial supporter of a non-profit atheist organization that promotes equal rights for women, minorities, and the LGBT community.

But I mostly detest people who can't have a civil disagreement with well meaning people on sensitive topics without pulling the race/phobe card, senseless appeals to emotion, or endless logical fallacies.

Why would I come with you? I'm European, have an ethnic background of Scottish and German, and live in the UK. Work it out on your own bub, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and give up your house for a Native American.

Live by your beliefs man. You think it's bad that immigrants form their own societal enclaves. You're a member of the largest one in the West, so it's high time you walk the talk and high tail it out of the red man's land.

Edit: Oh, and that "I'm not a racist but" of yours. Quality.

 

[child of wonder]

What's the current rate of immigration? How many are immigrating to your state yearly? What's the ideal rate?

Excellent question.

Reliable figures are almost impossible to come by if we're talking about the rate of Somali immigration in Minnesota. Even the number of Somali living here already is unknown. It could be 40,000, it could be 100,000.

The short answer is "I don't know." What I do know are the affects it's had in the community -- demonization of Somali immigrants, a strain on Minnesota government services, a resistance to assimilation by immigrants as their culture is heavily insulated. All of which lead to resentment by "native Minnesotans" (a poor choice of words but I mean not only whites, but even other 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants already here who I've talked to first hand) and the Somalis themselves even more hesitant to integrate -- a vicious cycle.

There are experts far more knowledgeable and intelligent than myself that could pull from studies, human psychology, and so on that could make a determination. And hell, maybe they'll say I'm 100% wrong. Right now, as previous posters have demonstrated, any attempt to even mention a change to immigration policy results in hate, vitriol, and ad hominem attacks and that's why our country remains so stupidly polarized and unable to compromise to affect positive change.

 

[child of wonder]

Why would I come with you? I'm European, have an ethnic background of Scottish and German, and live in the UK. Work it out on your own bub, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and give up your house for a Native American.

Live by your beliefs man. You think it's bad that immigrants form their own societal enclaves. You're a member of the largest one in the West, so it's high time you walk the talk and high tail it out of the red man's land.

Edit: Oh, and that "I'm not a racist but" of yours. Quality.

As soon as you give up your home to anyone with high levels of Neanderthal DNA, the earliest settlers of the British Isles before Homo Sapiens, then I'll do the same here for Native Americans.

Societal enclaves of immigrants will obviously always occur. But I'd argue that there's a certain point of critical mass where the enclave becomes so insulated from the surrounding culture that even future generations will struggle to be anything but that which their parents tell them to without fear of being ostracized or worse.

Edit: Oh, and that "I'm a smug, ethically superior keyboard warrior" of yours. Quality. When have you ever put your money where your mouth is to combat racism? (hint: angry keyboard clacking at strangers on the internet doesn't count)

 

[feralkid]

Yes, I am a proponent of immigration. Have you even visited the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island? Do you know anything of immigration history or just argue because feels?



There it is. Any disagreement on this subject means someone is a racist. This is why polite discourse in our country is essentially dead -- children slinging insults.

.

You aren't a racist because I don't agree with you; you are a racist because you hold and promote racist views.

Look, if you don't want to be called a racist, then stop promoting racist ideals.

Or better yet, why not just own up to it?

In the long run, you're not going to fool anyone anyway.

 

[fskimospy]

As soon as you give up your home to anyone with high levels of Neanderthal DNA, the earliest settlers of the British Isles before Homo Sapiens, then I'll do the same here for Native Americans.

Societal enclaves of immigrants will obviously always occur. But I'd argue that there's a certain point of critical mass where the enclave becomes so insulated from the surrounding culture that even future generations will struggle to be anything but that which their parents tell them to without fear of being ostracized or worse.

Edit: Oh, and that "I'm a smug, ethically superior keyboard warrior" of yours. Quality. When have you ever put your money where your mouth is to combat racism? (hint: angry keyboard clacking at strangers on the internet doesn't count)

This is the same fear that was brought up with the Swedes, the Germans, the Italians, the Irish, and more when they came to the US. It is nearly always unfounded.

 

[feralkid]

I'd argue that there's a certain point of critical mass where the enclave becomes so insulated from the surrounding culture that even future generations will struggle to be anything but that which their parents tell them to without fear of being ostracized or worse.

"But I mostly detest people who can't have a civil disagreement with well meaning people on sensitive topics without pulling the race/phobe card, senseless appeals to emotion, or endless logical fallacies."


Whoa, Daddy...
Look who's talking.

Zero Self Awareness.
Full. On. Denial.

 

[MajinCry]

As soon as you give up your home to anyone with high levels of Neanderthal DNA, the earliest settlers of the British Isles before Homo Sapiens, then I'll do the same here for Native Americans.

Societal enclaves of immigrants will obviously always occur. But I'd argue that there's a certain point of critical mass where the enclave becomes so insulated from the surrounding culture that even future generations will struggle to be anything but that which their parents tell them to without fear of being ostracized or worse.

Edit: Oh, and that "I'm a smug, ethically superior keyboard warrior" of yours. Quality. When have you ever put your money where your mouth is to combat racism? (hint: angry keyboard clacking at strangers on the internet doesn't count)

So you want me to give up my home for a modern day proto human, in exchange for you having the wherewithall to actually follow what you want done unto others. You're a coward; you don't want immigrants to come into your country, yet aren't willing to chuck yourself out because you are an immigrant yourself.

Say it with me now children, "Fuck you, I've got mine".

Don't worry, you're a racist coward who can't even live by his own beliefs. You've made it abundantly clear. Now that we've got that down, go play with yourself in the corner gramps, as you're not saying anything of substance.

You want immigrants out, but not all immigrants, only the brown ones. Pretty damn rich, coming from a white immigrant in the red man's land. Fuck off.

 

[HomerJS]

As predicted. Child and others will see what Trump meant, and if all his opposition is doing is talking about "racism" and insisting that these places aren't shitholes, then they won't hear any arguments for why they should accept these people. It's one-sided attention/scrutiny, since there's nobody keeping it real on the left (they ain't representing), and then many will react with, "yeah, awful comments, but why not a 'common sense' approach to immigration..." Maybe Trump intended the statement to leak. It's turning out so well for him.

You keep on insisting that its all about the "shithole" comment while ignoring the broader context. Like I stated in a previous response New Orleans after Katrina could be called a "shithole" and not be racist. But saying that and at the same time expressing preferences for white cities easily can be racist.

With Trump's history it just it codifies the premise that he is a racist.


BTW - you never answered my other question. Just sayin'

 

[fskimospy]

So you want me to give up my home for a modern day proto human, in exchange for you having the wherewithall to actually follow what you want done unto others. You're a coward; you don't want immigrants to come into your country, yet aren't willing to chuck yourself out because you are an immigrant yourself.

Say it with me now children, "Fuck you, I've got mine".

Don't worry, you're a racist coward who can't even live by his own beliefs. You've made it abundantly clear. Now that we've got that down, go play with yourself in the corner gramps, as you're not saying anything of substance.

You want immigrants out, but not all immigrants, only the brown ones. Pretty damn rich, coming from a white immigrant in the red man's land. Fuck off.

There’s no magic right to land just because someone lived there first and there’s no right for anyone to go live anywhere they want unless they are willing and able to fight for it.

Immigration is a good thing because it makes America stronger and more competitive, not because we somehow lack the right to tell anyone they can’t live here.

 

[fskimospy]

You keep on insisting that its all about the "shithole" comment while ignoring the broader context. Like I stated in a previous response New Orleans after Katrina could be called a "shithole" and not be racist. But saying that and at the same time expressing preferences for white cities easily can be racist.

With Trump's history it just it codifies the premise that he is a racist.

BTW - you never answered my other question. Just sayin'

I love the constant claims that the least popular president in modern history who has been almost entirely unable to enact his agenda and who is facing potential prison time for a wide array of associates is secretly playing 15 dimensional chess by shrieking racial slurs at a closed meeting.

 

[MajinCry]

There’s no magic right to land just because someone lived there first and there’s no right for anyone to go live anywhere they want unless they are willing and able to fight for it.

Immigration is a good thing because it makes America stronger and more competitive, not because we somehow lack the right to tell anyone they can’t live here.

You're missing my point. He says that immigrants should stay out because they form enclaves, yet he's an immigrant that's part of a huge enclave. He's not going to leave, and live by the standards he sets for others, because that would be inconvenient for him.

 

[child of wonder]

So you want me to give up my home for a modern day proto human, in exchange for you having the wherewithall to actually follow what you want done unto others. You're a coward; you don't want immigrants to come into your country, yet aren't willing to chuck yourself out because you are an immigrant yourself.

Say it with me now children, "Fuck you, I've got mine".

Don't worry, you're a racist coward who can't even live by his own beliefs. You've made it abundantly clear. Now that we've got that down, go play with yourself in the corner gramps, as you're not saying anything of substance.

You want immigrants out, but not all immigrants, only the brown ones. Pretty damn rich, coming from a white immigrant in the red man's land. Fuck off.

Does the angry clicking sound it makes while you type that get you off? Does it give you a little hard on to scream and wail at this straw man of me you've constructed?

You're mentally masturbating all over yourself for all to see. It's embarrassing.

 

[MajinCry]

Does the angry clicking sound it makes while you type that get you off? Does it give you a little hard on to scream and wail at this straw man of me you've constructed?

You're mentally masturbating all over yourself for all to see. It's embarrassing.

Don't worry, I know that you're going to continue being the racist embodiment of rotten wank juice. I get it, you're annoyed that your hypocrisy is being pointed out. It's just a shame that you have the emotional competence of a young child, and are completely unwilling to reflect upon your, ehm, "moral" tenants.

 

[child of wonder]

You're missing my point. He says that immigrants should stay out because they form enclaves, yet he's an immigrant that's part of a huge enclave. He's not going to leave, and live by the standards he sets for others, because that would be inconvenient for him.

Never said that. Only said too rapid immigration could form enclaves of a critical mass that would make integration extremely difficult. And by integration, I mean it as a two way street. One of the strengths of immigration and why it makes the United States better is that immigrants take on some of the values and culture of the melting pot that is the USA and the USA simultaneously takes on some of the traits and culture of the immigrants. We all benefit.

Oops.... I mean "I hate all brown people! No more immigration ever!!! Send em all back to Mexico!!!" Sorry everyone, got out of character there saying I feel immigration is a positive thing when you've all so clearly pointed out that I'm actually a racist.

 

[fskimospy]

You're missing my point. He says that immigrants should stay out because they form enclaves, yet he's an immigrant that's part of a huge enclave. He's not going to leave, and live by the standards he sets for others, because that would be inconvenient for him.

He doesn’t have to live by those standards though because he’s part of the group that runs things. Also, the idea that the dominant culture is somehow just a large enclave kind of destroys the meaning of the word.

I just think the argument that people somehow lack the moral authority or whatever to restrict immigration is ridiculous. We should be increasing immigration because of the merits, not for any other reason.

 

[MajinCry]

Never said that. Only said too rapid immigration could form enclaves of a critical mass that would make integration extremely difficult. And by integration, I mean it as a two way street. One of the strengths of immigration and why it makes the United States better is that immigrants take on some of the values and culture of the melting pot that is the USA and the USA simultaneously takes on some of the traits and culture of the immigrants. We all benefit.

Oops.... I mean "I hate all brown people! No more immigration ever!!! Send em all back to Mexico!!!" Sorry everyone, got out of character there saying I feel immigration is a positive thing when you've all so clearly pointed out that I'm actually a racist.

Yes yes, it's all fake news and alt facts. You are the victim.

 

[fskimospy]

Never said that. Only said too rapid immigration could form enclaves of a critical mass that would make integration extremely difficult. And by integration, I mean it as a two way street. One of the strengths of immigration and why it makes the United States better is that immigrants take on some of the values and culture of the melting pot that is the USA and the USA simultaneously takes on some of the traits and culture of the immigrants. We all benefit.

Oops.... I mean "I hate all brown people! No more immigration ever!!! Send em all back to Mexico!!!" Sorry everyone, got out of character there saying I feel immigration is a positive thing when you've all so clearly pointed out that I'm actually a racist.

We have taken on immigrants at a MUCH faster pace in the past than we have now and it all worked out fine. Why are things special now?

If anything we should be increasing our rate of accepting immigrants. It would do wonders for our looming aging population crisis.

 

[feralkid]

Never said that. Only said too rapid immigration could form enclaves of a critical mass that would make integration extremely difficult. And by integration, I mean it as a two way street. One of the strengths of immigration and why it makes the United States better is that immigrants take on some of the values and culture of the melting pot that is the USA and the USA simultaneously takes on some of the traits and culture of the immigrants. We all benefit.

Oops.... I mean "I hate all brown people! No more immigration ever!!! Send em all back to Mexico!!!" Sorry everyone, got out of character there saying I feel immigration is a positive thing when you've all so clearly pointed out that I'm actually a racist.

Keep on denying, frightened whitey.

 

[MajinCry]

He doesn’t have to live by those standards though because he’s part of the group that runs things. Also, the idea that the dominant culture is somehow just a large enclave kind of destroys the meaning of the word.

I just think the argument that people somehow lack the moral authority or whatever to restrict immigration is ridiculous. We should be increasing immigration because of the merits, not for any other reason.

It's the reasons he's giving for restricting them that are complete bullshit. He doesn't want immigrants to bring any facets of their culture to America, as that's different, brown, and scary. They'll form up their own communities where they engage with each other, rather than slapping on bleach and acting like a proper WASP.