so the US is out of troops

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Infidel
NTC was critical to see where your weaknesses were. We learned how difficult it was to operate in that environment. Busting through the desert at night looking through nods with no depth perception, you can run right off an embankment/cliff before you know whats hit you. You learn to appreciate the logistical nightmares you're going to encounter, how your communications are going to go to hell etc.

Sorry, but I think its pretty critical training.

OPFOR was soviet style when I was there, freaking gas attacks via mortar every morning. Sucked.

Like I said above, NTC offers fantastic training. However, it has never been mandatory for units who are heading downrange. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of units that have gone over without any time at NTC.

The OP here is suggesting that the surge units have somehow been short-changed or otherwise deprived of standard training. That is simply not the case. Most mobilization sites offer all the required training for units going over.

 

[Lemon law]

As this thread lurches from one point to another---and one personal attack to another---there is a tendency to miss the larger picture. Granted NTC is great training but military personnel who are familiar with conditions in Iraq can very much bring a new unit member up to speed---before their ignorance gets them killed.

But the real question is and remains---was and is our military properly trained to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people after our intervention effectively removed the only government most of them ever had. And they went from having a police state government where things were at least mostly predictable to complete anarchy in a matter of days.

And when the isolated incidents bad news of an Abu Ghrab or the rape of a few Iraqi women can more than cancel out countless good deeds. And after some four years of the katrina treatment, I can understand that the average Iraqi is none too happy. And is in a perpetual state of terror and uncertainty. Most of the acts of random violence are killing civilians. And even staying off the streets
and huddling in their own homes is scant protection against death squads that come at night and just drag people off.

At a certain point stay the course will run out of time. Not only because Rummy sent in a force that was too light, but because our army was unprepared and under trained to even start winning the peace. Start out with a strange culture and an alien religion, add in little cultural similarities or understanding of Iraqi cultural taboos, a huge dose of no native speaking translators, stir and let simmer for four years, and you have a recipe for street thugs taking over and becoming completely entrenched. With the free and democratically elected Iraqi government a do nothing irrelevancy that has zero impact on the daily life of the man or woman on the street.

At this point in time---who can the average Iraqi look to for protection?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Damn, that is just pathetic. I don't care what branch you are in, you need to know how to handle a weapon. I look at it like cops who do not train with their weapon more than the minimum twice-yearly excursion to the range. Sorry, but it is part of your job to be prepared, even if you have to do it on your own time.

I don't think I agree with that. Your job in the navy really isn't to shoot people with rifles/pistols. You recieve exactly 1 day of training for it in boot camp, and the training I mentioned earlier while attached to your ship. There are a lot of other things you have to train for while in the Navy (ie. ships are in effect floating bombs, and putting out fires in them is not easy), that simply put, your time is better spent on those other things. While people from the ship do stand security watches with weapons, their purpose is one of deterrance... not to fight. (hope the bad guy thinks twice about starting something if he sees a guy with a rifle... even if that guy can't shoot worth a damn. Hopefully he doesn't know that.). Mostly... weapons just aren't part of the job. Most places where ships dock there are base security forces that are there to actually do whatever needs to be done. Your purpose as the watch is mostly to call them.

I really don't think this is a problem either; it would be largely a waste of our government's money to spend a lot of time and ammo training people to use guns who whenever there is a war... sit 30 miles offshore watching TV.