Indus
Lifer
- May 11, 2002
- 15,809
- 10,978
- 136
No they didn't.
Reform kicked the shit out of the Tories and Labor benefitted.
Look at vote share.. combine reform and tory, tories win just like last time while labor actually got less votes than corbyn got!
Sure you have a labor government but one that can very easily be voted out at the next election.
Indus
Lifer
- May 11, 2002
- 15,809
- 10,978
- 136
No you can't look at it like that. Look at past 5 elections whole.
Reform stole votes from Tories this time around but didn't in the last 4.
Labor just came in with the same % as always so they were LUCKY reform split the vote (Ross Perot style) and benefitted.
Except if you look at polls of second choice for reform voters they weren’t all going to the tories at all or even close to that.
So no, not at all. The conservatives got destroyed, and more to your point the exit polls showed immigration was far from everyone’s mind.
Go look at the actual results. This is nonsense.
Also, Ross Perot took more votes from Clinton than Bush so you have that one wrong too.
If Bidens age and frailty isn't "the" issue, then what is it? Joe is neck and neck with a complete fucking idiot and a CRIMINAL! a fucking raging mentally ill criminal!. If Biden was 10 - 15 years younger he would be double digits ahead of Trump, not a "toss up" and we wouldn't be in this dilemma or having these conversations. I can't imagine the stress of being POTUS in THIS day in age let alone being 81 - 86 through the term. The stress on (A younger person even) someone like Joe has got to be draining and possibly life threatening. Does Joe want to be incapacitated or even die in office? His family should be having these conversations. Is Harris the better choice, along with, say Shapiro of PA?. She has a Jewish husband and Shapiro is also Jewish. Not sure if this is good or bad in this day and age. However, having seen her husband interviewed and how he talks about her I personally like her more. Imo, he’s an asset if she runs. I'm still not sure how I want this to play out, I'd prefer Joe, but the optics he is showing sure don't look good.
As things are playing out, it seems like it’s getting more and more likely than not that Biden drops out. I just can’t see how it gets better for him. Scripted events and softball interviews aren’t going to assuage anybody. I will always support him and vote for him if he stays. I really like Joe Biden and respect him as a skilled politician, a good President and a man of integrity, but the more I see of him lately the more I question him as a viable candidate. He tried to make the case on that Stephanopoulos ABC interview that America faces great challenges in the next four years, and who is going to deal with them if not him? The problem was that I could barely hear him and frankly he looked again very low energy. He had some suspect answers to some of those questions. When he said he didn’t watch a tape of the debate (or didn’t remember?! wtf?). He either really didn't remember, or if he actually didn’t watch it then he’s abdicating his responsibility. His answers gave the impression that he is lying, or he really can't remember things that happened recently. That "Lord Almighty” comment gave me a huge fucking eyeroll. He seems to be in denial about what people are saying (Democratic congresspeople, regular people). This is not the Joe Biden who ran four years ago. Media pressure is unrelenting but so far there isn’t a cascade of powerful elected officials calling for him to resign. On the bright side, his polls are poor but not yet catastrophic. The Dems NEED to make this election about Trump and what a complete disaster he was and will be as President. Groups of party leader need to start calling him out on all his bullshit PUBLICLY and FORCEFULLY.
As things are playing out, it seems like it’s getting more and more likely than not that Biden drops out. I just can’t see how it gets better for him. Scripted events and softball interviews aren’t going to assuage anybody. I will always support him and vote for him if he stays. I really like Joe Biden and respect him as a skilled politician, a good President and a man of integrity, but the more I see of him lately the more I question him as a viable candidate. He tried to make the case on that Stephanopoulos ABC interview that America faces great challenges in the next four years, and who is going to deal with them if not him? The problem was that I could barely hear him and frankly he looked again very low energy. He had some suspect answers to some of those questions. When he said he didn’t watch a tape of the debate (or didn’t remember?! wtf?). He either really didn't remember, or if he actually didn’t watch it then he’s abdicating his responsibility. His answers gave the impression that he is lying, or he really can't remember things that happened recently. That "Lord Almighty” comment gave me a huge fucking eyeroll. He seems to be in denial about what people are saying (Democratic congresspeople, regular people). This is not the Joe Biden who ran four years ago. Media pressure is unrelenting but so far there isn’t a cascade of powerful elected officials calling for him to resign. On the bright side, his polls are poor but not yet catastrophic. The Dems NEED to make this election about Trump and what a complete disaster he was and will be as President. Groups of party leader need to start calling him out on all his bullshit PUBLICLY and FORCEFULLY.
Dropping out only when some fucking deity is going to whisper it to you personally to do so is the sort of insane garbage I expect from Republicans. Oh, but I forgot that half the country thinks this sort of crazy nonsense is normal.
That backs up what I already fear--that like Feinstein and many others who lose it, they also lose the perspective to deal with it. How many oldsters have to be forced to give up their driving license? They don't want to kill themselves or others--they refuse or can't see that their driving skills have eroded.
This whole damn thing was likely to happen and preventable, and everyone just said la-la-la it's ok, let's elect a fucking 78 year old person to a position where normally you try (and succeed) to stay in it for eight years. That is lunacy. Name a position where you'd expect an 86-year-old to do well in--and extra points if its more stressful than the POTUS. What percentage of 80-somethings are still working, or still high-functioning? If the plan had been all along to not run for a 2nd term, I could accept that I little better, but it obviously wasn't. Even an 82 year old president is fricking nuts.
All that said, while this situation pisses me off I'll still vote Democrat. "Being done" with the party would leave me exactly nowhere. There's only one chance to beat Trump and all that goes with it.
That backs up what I already fear--that like Feinstein and many others who lose it, they also lose the perspective to deal with it. How many oldsters have to be forced to give up their driving license? They don't want to kill themselves or others--they refuse or can't see that their driving skills have eroded.
This whole damn thing was likely to happen and preventable, and everyone just said la-la-la it's ok, let's elect a fucking 78 year old person to a position where normally you try (and succeed) to stay in it for eight years. That is lunacy. Name a position where you'd expect an 86-year-old to do well in--and extra points if its more stressful than the POTUS. What percentage of 80-somethings are still working, or still high-functioning? If the plan had been all along to not run for a 2nd term, I could accept that I little better, but it obviously wasn't. Even an 82 year old president is fricking nuts.
All that said, while this situation pisses me off I'll still vote Democrat. "Being done" with the party would leave me exactly nowhere. There's only one chance to beat Trump and all that goes with it.
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Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 28,333
- 13,173
- 136
"I want a candidate who has conviction that he can win".
Candidate: "Only god could keep me from staying in and winning"
"Not like that"
I'm not worried about Joe's "conviction", I'm not worried about his ability to govern if he wins. I'm not worried about Joe becoming incapacitated while in office. There will be the right people in place if he becomes unable to govern or if he passes. The worry is his electability
I'd imagine most people on Anandtech P&N board are in the "I will vote for a wet napkin before I vote for Trump" camp. BUT, if we are counting on this then we have lost the vote. I’m not sure people are considering whether Joe can motivate enough of the unengaged voters to push him over the top.
The result of the election will be Biden or Trump, yes, but people’s choices aren’t Biden or Trump. They are Biden, Trump, third party, or not voting at all. Saying Biden is better than Trump is overwhelmingly true for every measure the man possesses, but that’s really not the issue. The issue is that we need enough voters to actively vote for Biden come November. If we are explaining and scolding them about the perceptions these people have of Biden, we are losing. Because their perceptions are their perceptions and telling them they haven’t seen or heard what they’ve seen and heard is NOT going to either convince them or get them get off the couch to make the effort to vote. Scolding them as to what they should see and hear and believe ... they will simply turn off and go back to paying attention to whatever they enjoy or need to pay attention to and won't pay attention at all. And they won’t vote for Biden. And it's likely they won’t vote at all.
The disengaged voters are still seeing mainstream media talking about how bad he was at the debate. Nothing so far has done anything to change that perception. Biden needs the disengaged voters from swing states to win. Biden’s team has done nothing in the week since the debate to counter the perceptions people took away from the debate. No live, unscripted performances from Biden. Nothing to change the conversation. Nothing but scolding people worried about Trump’s now better chances of winning.
In every election, every politician says that their opponent represents evil incarnate and that they will bring about the apocalypse if they win. This is one of the few times that it’s actually true, but the voters won’t pay attention. The voters have heard those claims in every election and just ignore them. The Dems need to come up with a strategy which actually gets that last % of people who casually believe that if Trump is elected again, nothing in my daily life will change to go to the polls to vote for them.
Most people who claim they are not voting for Trump but won't say who they are voting for will likely vote 3rd party, write someone in or not vote at all. So, then they can say if Trump wins "it's not my fault! I didn't vote for the guy". But we all know what doing any of those options mean - Not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. Usually, these people's mindset is Trump isn't really as bad as these "liberals" make him out to be, and me not voting for Biden doesn't matter.
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zzyzxroad
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2017
- 3,264
- 2,287
- 136
It looks like France is staving off LePen and company for now.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,237
- 32,772
- 136
Yet another election that skewed left compared to the polling?
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 72,621
- 33,407
- 136
Hopefully the left parties can abstain from eating their own long enough to get something positive accomplished. They are going to have to work with the Macron block if they want to get anything done.
hal2kilo
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2009
- 25,905
- 12,190
- 136
- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,848
- 10,619
- 147
Pens1566
Lifer
- Oct 11, 2005
- 13,613
- 11,129
- 136
Parkinson's legislation that was in the works
Common sense says the visits would have continued if they were for medical reasons. Since they stopped just before the legislation was signed, it's kind of telling.
Looks like shoddy journalism looking to capitalize on a trendy narrative.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 40,696
- 10,128
- 136
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