So odds of govt shutdown, Part II?

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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
eskimospy said:
If people can put aside their personal bias and look at the situation rationally it can't be more clear. As a condition for keeping the government running republicans demanded a policy concession that democrats would not make. That is the beginning and end of it.

It is not possible to make a logical argument that if you demand that I give you something and I refuse that we are both equally blameworthy of the outcome. You created the situation with your demand.
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"If we all put aside our personal biases, everyone must agree that I am correct."

Who ya crappin'?
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
eskimospy said:
That's not what my post said. If you want to say that democrats were responsible for a few extra hours of government shutdown due to their willingness to get the debt ceiling hiked the way they wanted it that's fine. The other 99.9% of it was indisputably on the republicans.

Attempting to assign equal blame to the party taking hostages and the party not giving in to the hostage demands is simply revisionist history. What is funny is that the republicans were PROUD to say they were shutting the government down until it turned into a catastrophe. Then they pretend it never happened and they expect to be able to fool gullible people.
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You're just like every other person in this country - you care more about the overall policies than you do about the temporary government shutdowns. You would gladly trade a few weeks of government shutdown if it meant a gigantic win for Obamacare, if it meant a gigantic win for increased government spending.

I would gladly trade a government shutdown to get out of this boondoggle of Obamacare and reduced government spending.

Be honest with yourself. Be honest with others. Your ego has grown far too large.

Your post said you fully acknowledge that the next round is the Dems demanding increased spending over the threat of a shut-down. We will see when the day comes, do the Dems cave on increased spending in order to avert a shut-down? If they do not, then you are proven wrong. If they do cave, at best it proves that the Dems felt that within the confines of this unique situation a shutdown was worse for their overall intentions with the future direction of this government, than fighting through a shutdown for increasing spending.


For you to be right, if the Democrats are so saintly and gracious and what-not - they would never shut down a government over a policy dispute... why then did you specifically say the Dems made sure this next fight was so close so they could get what they want. If they would never shut down the government, then they have zero bargaining power, Republicans will demand spending levels stay where they are and the Dems will be forced to agree.

But that is a contradiction to the scenario you acknowledged they purposefully created. And it also means they are capable of and willing to use a shut-down to enforce their agenda. You cannot separate out political gamesmanship from any of these situations.

Or to be put in simpler terms, you are a political hack. At least have the decency to acknowledge what we all know.





But in the spirit of making this a better world, how about this, would you agree with this statement?
The Democrats did not feel a shut-down was a threat to their control over government during the last round.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,016
55,465
136
cubby1223 said:
"If we all put aside our personal biases, everyone must agree that I am correct."

Who ya crappin'?
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The history of the shutdown is well documented history. If you can put aside your personal bias you will in fact see that I am right.

What is really strange is that you are so willing to allow conservatives to lie to you.
 
blankslate

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,797
572
126
Magic 8 ball says
Use_The_Magic_8_Ball_And_Have_Fun.jpg
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Jhhnn said:
Repubs prioritize handouts to military contractors for the unnecessary above handouts to the unfortunate to feed their kids.

Because Terrarists! Welfare Queens! The evil Obama! & Freedumb!

It's all coming into focus.
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cubby1223 said:
Do you even know what the word "troll" means? Here's a clue:
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I offered a point of view that the usual suspects haven't addressed in the slightest, and that includes you. You even clipped my quote so as to avoid it.

When we have to prioritize, the choice is clear, so we should really get honest about that & about each sides' reasons. I believe I already attributed all your reasons to your team. If you have other reasons for favoring military contractors over people caught in unfortunate circumstance beyond their control, please state them.
 
theeedude

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I think now that they are making some political hay out of Obamacare issues, GOP is less likely to try to crash the economy for political gain. But it's not out of the question.
 
Agent11

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
The shutdown was caused by both sides. It is the failure of communication, debate and compromise. It is true that the republicans wanted to delay Obamacare, they tried to get it defunded and repealed before hand as well. . .

Knowing what we know now was a delay an unreasonable request?
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Does this mean the end of the world again? Someone stop resurrecting us, please.
 
rudeguy

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Agent11 said:
The shutdown was caused by both sides. It is the failure of communication, debate and compromise. It is true that the republicans wanted to delay Obamacare, they tried to get it defunded and repealed before hand as well. . .

Knowing what we know now was a delay an unreasonable request?
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Completely unreasonable and no one should negotiate with terrorists like them.
 
Lithium381

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,452
2
0
Both the R & the D want more government spending, a larger more intrusive government. Neither one is interested in freedom and liberty. They want more control. And the farce is that they're opposing forces. They're working together providing us kabuki theater . . .
 
rudeguy

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Lithium381 said:
Both the R & the D want more government spending, a larger more intrusive government. Neither one is interested in freedom and liberty. They want more control. And the farce is that they're opposing forces. They're working together providing us kabuki theater . . .
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and they have tanks!
 
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shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
compuwiz1 said:
Dems will probably shut down the government again. Harry Reid and his will not negotiate squad will do it again. In the end all the Repubs wanted was a delay in the ACA individual mandate, which has been proven is not ready for the market yet. If these ass clowns would actually pass a budget, instead of these CRs, we wouldn't have to keep going through this bullshit. Sigh......that's what happens when you have an old ass leader and a senate controlled by the democrats.
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I want all of your money. Ok, let's compromise and I'll take half. What!? YOU ARE NOT COMPROMISING!
 
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shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Agent11 said:
The shutdown was caused by both sides. It is the failure of communication, debate and compromise. It is true that the republicans wanted to delay Obamacare, they tried to get it defunded and repealed before hand as well. . .

Knowing what we know now was a delay an unreasonable request?
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It wasn't even close to "both sides." The Republicans made demands and offered nothing in concession. Reducing insane demands is NOT compromise. They have to give something to get something in return. They offered nothing.

This is just a poor attempt at "they are both bad, so vote republican."
 
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shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
cubby1223 said:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35621386


You said yourself the Democrats are using these fights to enforce their vision of government. You acknowledge that Republicans wanted a greater increase between fights while the Dems wanted a shorter length of time.

So exactly how do you lay the blame? Both sides had plenty of opportunities to keep the government running, and both sides chose not to "cave in". You just happen to agree with the policies of the Democrats, so you believe the Republicans are the side to blame. That is called personal bias.

Both sides willingly let the government shut down in the attempt to gain greater control over government. The Democrats won the last round and believe they will win the next round. If the Democrats believe they gain greater control with a government shutdown, they will not compromise on their demands in the budget fight, even if it means a government shutdown.
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Umm, the Democrats were willing to vote for a clean bill and the Republicans wouldn't even allow such a vote... The Republicans made demands and offered nothing. It was not even CLOSE to "both sides."
 
Lithium381

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,452
2
0
shadow9d9 said:
It wasn't even close to "both sides." The Republicans made demands and offered nothing in concession. Reducing insane demands is NOT compromise. They have to give something to get something in return. They offered nothing.

This is just a poor attempt at "they are both bad, so vote republican."
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They're both TERRIBLE big-government statists!!!


Vote Libertarian! :whiste:
 
JEDI

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
at least there no extension of federal unemployment handouts.. er.. benefits
 
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