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So NK launches another ICBM....and Trump blathers on

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SlowSpyder said:
You guys are so overly critical of Trump. You are aware that NK detonated nukes during GW's and Obama's presidency, right? They launched missiles before too. But, Trump called him a name, pisspants time by the left!
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So we should send them food implanted with tape worms?
 
Puffnstuff said:
This is why I advocate intercepting of the next one to be certain that we can actually do it before he straps a live warhead on the end of one and sends it to someplace important.
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I think that is seen as unwise. If we intercept that won't bother Kim, he'll just learn that multiple ICBMs are necessary. If we miss then we embolden anyone who has thoughts of nuclear missiles, especially Kim.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
I think that is seen as unwise. If we intercept that won't bother Kim, he'll just learn that multiple ICBMs are necessary. If we miss then we embolden anyone who has thoughts of nuclear missiles, especially Kim.
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But, doing nothing hasn't worked. Tough talk hasn't worked. Sanctions haven't worked. Is it time to add more risk to the equation? I'll be the first to admit i don't have a good answer, any and all answers that I can think of have their cons, and can be significant. But, we've seen what staying hands off has done. Are we ok living with that, or not?
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
I think that is seen as unwise. If we intercept that won't bother Kim, he'll just learn that multiple ICBMs are necessary. If we miss then we embolden anyone who has thoughts of nuclear missiles, especially Kim.
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All we have to do is review previous power hungry dictators who were building up their military and then see what doing nothing earned the people who were affected by them.
 
SlowSpyder said:
But, doing nothing hasn't worked. Tough talk hasn't worked. Sanctions haven't worked. Is it time to add more risk to the equation? I'll be the first to admit i don't have a good answer, any and all answers that I can think of have their cons, and can be significant. But, we've seen what staying hands off has done. Are we ok living with that, or not?
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I'm afraid this is an intractable problem at least for the moment. Starting a war on the Korean peninsula is not a good idea and neither is Kim with a nuclear force. There are no good options here IMO. If I were in the hot seat I think I'd likely park a sub off the coast and make sure Kim knew it. Put antimissile systems in place and develop whatever weapons necessary to penetrate hardened artillery up to and including tactical nuclear bunker busters. Use whatever time which exists to develop systems to pull Kim's fangs.
 
SlowSpyder said:
How has anything Trump done changed this situation for better or worse? Its exactly the same game that's been being play for about the last 10 years, if not longer.
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"North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won't happen!" djt 1/2/17

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/816057920223846400?lang=en

guess what, not only is it happening, but faster than anyone predicted. no president has ever threatened NK like trump has and none's words have ever been more hollow.
 
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Hayabusa Rider said:
I'm afraid this is an intractable problem at least for the moment. Starting a war on the Korean peninsula is not a good idea and neither is Kim with a nuclear force. There are no good options here IMO. If I were in the hot seat I think I'd likely park a sub off the coast and make sure Kim knew it. Put antimissile systems in place and develop whatever weapons necessary to penetrate hardened artillery up to and including tactical nuclear bunker busters. Use whatever time which exists to develop systems to pull Kim's fangs.
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I'm sure Kim is under no illusion that there are strategic assets in place.

He'll probably come to the table after demonstrating full ICBM capability. There is nothing the US can do at this point to dislodge him or denuclearize the Korean peninsula without killing millions of people. The US is not a trustworthy negotiating partner for the latter since every dictator that's given up WMD or the pursuit of it has ended up toppled except Iran and Trump is trying to do that in too. They will never give up the nukes unless the entire regime collapses somehow, I sure wouldn't were I in their place.
 
Puffnstuff said:
All we have to do is review previous power hungry dictators who were building up their military and then see what doing nothing earned the people who were affected by them.
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Every situation is different. We could have stood up to the USSR in Cuba but we probably wouldn't be here. There is no magic formula to apply. Ears and eyes open and develop and implement strategies.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
We could have stood up to the USSR in Cuba but we probably wouldn't be here.
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If you think that we did nothing about Cuba then I'd suggest that you find a new source of history to draw from. We were on the edge of WW3, the Soviets sent 4 nuclear armed subs into the gulf with orders to do whatever it takes to stop the U.S. from intervening and the diligence of the fleet forced them to surface one by one while the blockage played out on the surface while they installed ICBM's in our backyard.

The pentagon had multiple plans on the table to remove the weapons and was preparing to execute them when Khrushchev capitulated and removed them. If we'd have done nothing then it would've given them the green light to do even more.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/north-korea-and-the-cuban-missile-crisis
 
Puffnstuff said:
If you think that we did nothing about Cuba then I'd suggest that you find a new source of history to draw from. We were on the edge of WW3, the Soviets sent 4 nuclear armed subs into the gulf with orders to do whatever it takes to stop the U.S. from intervening and the diligence of the fleet forced them to surface one by one while the blockage played out on the surface while they installed ICBM's in our backyard.

The pentagon had multiple plans on the table to remove the weapons and was preparing to execute them when Khrushchev capitulated and removed them. If we'd have done nothing then it would've given them the green light to do even more.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/north-korea-and-the-cuban-missile-crisis
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Both sides were sweating. Why do you think Robert Kennedy was engaging in back door diplomacy. You do know about the quid pro quo, with the USSR, right?
 
Gawd. DPRK instincts for self preservation have to be very strong for that govt to exist at all. They know full well that they'd be annihilated after a nuclear attack on anybody. Just because they've decided that nuclear weapons are their only credible deterrent to US aggression doesn't mean they'd use them in any other circumstances. It would be suicidal.

That doesn't mean our own Presidente Deluxe won't do something stupid, sad to say.
 
alien42 said:
"North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won't happen!" djt 1/2/17

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/816057920223846400?lang=en

guess what, not only is it happening, but faster than anyone predicted. no president has ever threatened NK like trump has and none's words have ever been more hollow.
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Oh, yea... they weren't going to do that if Trump hadn't said that. Drats, that Trump!
 
Why would NK believe the word of the US after what HRC and Obama did in Libya? That turned out well, right?

Did you know NK offered peace to Obama. Alll the had to do was stop flying bombers up and down their coast. He refused.
 
unseenmorbidity said:
On Jan. 16, Pyongyang had demanded the conclusion of a peace treaty with the United States and a halt to U.S. military exercises with South Korea to end its nuclear tests.

But U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken said then that Pyongyang needed to demonstrate by its actions that it was serious about denuclearization before any dialogues could start.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...t-nuclear-test-state-department-idUSKCN0VU0XE
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It in no way addressed the actual concern with NK. Denuclearization. There was no reason to discuss anything with NK. It was a hollow meaningless gesture.
 
unseenmorbidity said:
On Jan. 16, Pyongyang had demanded the conclusion of a peace treaty with the United States and a halt to U.S. military exercises with South Korea to end its nuclear tests.

But U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken said then that Pyongyang needed to demonstrate by its actions that it was serious about denuclearization before any dialogues could start.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...t-nuclear-test-state-department-idUSKCN0VU0XE
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Give us your guns & then we can talk... Right-O. You betcha.

Such statements are not intended to be constructive.
 
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