So maybe the Sub-prime mortgage crisis isn?t that big of a deal after all

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Vic
Read the thread, Dave. I already posted that article.

Ok, I have to chime in there.

Vic, read the thread. I already posted that article 1 hour before you did. I was going to let it slide as it didn't matter. But your comment to Dave made me laugh.

Hey, you just posted the link, not the article! And it's hard to see all the little individual posts in this thread when mshan keeps posting 4 or 5 screen long articles.

I think it's time we keep a record of all of Dave's "predictions."

Doesn't he claim to have predicted Katrina too?

Yes, I did.

Hmmmm apparently your memory is not as selective as you would lead to believe.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Vic
Hey, you just posted the link, not the article! And it's hard to see all the little individual posts in this thread when mshan keeps posting 4 or 5 screen long articles.

I think it's time we keep a record of all of Dave's "predictions." Doesn't he claim to have predicted Katrina too?

I never post articles for that reason. Reading this particular thread is quite difficult with all the articles. I always try to highlight what I think is important (which basically was exactly what you highlighted). But of course, I leave the link there for people to read. So, I guess your rebuttal to my post is technically correct.

Dave actually predicted that I would make this post.

And he predicted I would laugh at your post! :laugh:

 

[theeedude]

Some people here predicted we'd find WMD's in Iraq... Often times they are the same people predicting housing bubble is not going to burst... How about you get one right before you start playing Nostradamus.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JD50

Dave, claiming that you predicted the real estate crash is ridiculous.

You just say that things are going to happen, obvious things, like the stock market going down after a long run, or the real estate market slowing down after a long run. The problem is, that you don't give any type of timeframe, and when you do, you are wrong, then change the timeframe that you originally predicted.

For example, you predicted that gas will be $5 per gallon, and most recently $6 per gallon. Neither of which have come true, but because you have revised your timeline for this so many times and you now refuse to give a timeframe for when this prediction will come true. Well duh, of course gas will eventually be $5 or even $6 per gallon, its just a matter of time.

Your "predictions" just prove that you are able to state the obvious, its just funny that you think thats such a big deal and you are so proud of that.

Not true.

You are selectively blocking out specific references I made to the Real Estate Market I brought up in the 2002-2004 timeframe.

Giving money away like candy to developers causing this massive oversupply of houses throughout the country that even you guys admit people cannot afford is not normal or "obvious".

I am not the one inside the corrupt Government or Industries such as the Banking and Mortgage like you guys are otherwise I would be dialed in even closer on the exact dates.

As an outsider looking at the forest through the trees I saw it as I see it and you hate it when I'm right calling your buddies the crooks that they are.

Speaking of crooks, what else can the Oil Industry be labeled as?

Why is it OK to admit shortcomings in your so called "maintenance" scheduling be a reward for incompetence?

What a racket.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Some people here predicted we'd find WMD's in Iraq... Often times they are the same people predicting housing bubble is not going to burst... How about you get one right before you start playing Nostradamus.

Hmm... I predicted that we wouldn't find WMD's in Iraq and that the housing bubble was a problem long before you ever joined here. What's that make me?

What is it with the partisan hacks here? Do you really think that being an elitist pessimistic finger-pointing your-way-or-the-highway tool is going to encourage people to see things your way next November? Here's a tip: you're hurting the cause, not helping it. You know that mad zoo called ATOT? Yeah, well, they think all the ATPN'ers are looney-bin nutcases. That should be your first clue.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JD50

Dave, claiming that you predicted the real estate crash is ridiculous.

You just say that things are going to happen, obvious things, like the stock market going down after a long run, or the real estate market slowing down after a long run. The problem is, that you don't give any type of timeframe, and when you do, you are wrong, then change the timeframe that you originally predicted.

For example, you predicted that gas will be $5 per gallon, and most recently $6 per gallon. Neither of which have come true, but because you have revised your timeline for this so many times and you now refuse to give a timeframe for when this prediction will come true. Well duh, of course gas will eventually be $5 or even $6 per gallon, its just a matter of time.

Your "predictions" just prove that you are able to state the obvious, its just funny that you think thats such a big deal and you are so proud of that.

Not true.

You are selectively blocking out specific references I made to the Real Estate Market I brought up in the 2002-2004 timeframe.

Giving money away like candy to developers causing this massive oversupply of houses throughout the country that even you guys admit people cannot afford is not normal or "obvious".

I am not the one inside the corrupt Government or Industries such as the Banking and Mortgage like you guys are otherwise I would be dialed in even closer on the exact dates.

As an outsider looking at the forest through the trees I saw it as I see it and you hate it when I'm right calling your buddies the crooks that they are.

Speaking of crooks, what else can the Oil Industry be labeled as?

Why is it OK to admit shortcomings in your so called "maintenance" scheduling be a reward for incompetence?

What a racket.

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously......

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Vic
Read the thread, Dave. I already posted that article.

Ok, I have to chime in there.

Vic, read the thread. I already posted that article 1 hour before you did. I was going to let it slide as it didn't matter. But your comment to Dave made me laugh.

Hey, you just posted the link, not the article! And it's hard to see all the little individual posts in this thread when mshan keeps posting 4 or 5 screen long articles.

I think it's time we keep a record of all of Dave's "predictions."

Doesn't he claim to have predicted Katrina too?

Yes, I did.

Hmmmm apparently your memory is not as selective as you would lead to believe.

Was the Space Shuttle up when Katrina happened?

:laugh:

 

[dmcowen674]

Speaking of lies, fraud and deception:

8-9-2007 Dow Plunges 387 on Subprime Concerns

The ECB's injection of money into the system is an unprecedented move, said Joseph V. Battipaglia, chief investment officer at Ryan Beck & Co., adding that it shows that problems in subprime lending are, in fact, spilling into the general economy.

"This is a mini-panic," he said.

"All the things that had been denied up until this point are unraveling.

On top of this, retail sales were mediocre, which shows that indeed, the housing collapse is affecting the consumer."
=====================================================

Every resident Republican that has consistently denied, denied and denied for years now when I said this was going to hit are now being called on the carpet by their fellow rich brethren in the stock market.

How cute, the rich whistling dixie on the rich. :laugh:

 

[theeedude]

BTW, timeframe is much harder to predict than the eventual outcome. If real estate is seriously overvalued relative to incomes, you can predict an eventual decline, which some of us have been predicting for a long time, but it's much harder to predict the timeframe because it has a lot to do with the market psychology of the moment.
That's one reason why I bought real estate short fund instead of buying puts on real estate companies, because puts have an expiration date, and it's entirely possible that the market would not have made the move down or even made a move up before the expiration date. For example, even in 2005-2006 timeframe you could predict the eventual decline of real estate based on valuation, but if you bought RE january 2007 puts based on that, you would have lost your shirt, because market psychology of a bubble still had to play out.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Some people here predicted we'd find WMD's in Iraq... Often times they are the same people predicting housing bubble is not going to burst... How about you get one right before you start playing Nostradamus.

Hmm... I predicted that we wouldn't find WMD's in Iraq and that the housing bubble was a problem long before you ever joined here. What's that make me?

What is it with the partisan hacks here?

Do you really think that being an elitist pessimistic finger-pointing your-way-or-the-highway tool is going to encourage people to see things your way next November?

Here's a tip: you're hurting the cause, not helping it.

You know that mad zoo called ATOT?

Yeah, well, they think all the ATPN'ers are looney-bin nutcases. That should be your first clue.

Just like you keep claiming to not support Republican here you go again with a post that says otherwise.

You're not even hiding your anti-Democrat agenda anymore.

If you predicted there would be no WMD in Iraq then why do you still support the liar in chief and his party?

May be a looney-bin nutcase but I don't talk out the side of my mouth.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Some people here predicted we'd find WMD's in Iraq... Often times they are the same people predicting housing bubble is not going to burst... How about you get one right before you start playing Nostradamus.

Hmm... I predicted that we wouldn't find WMD's in Iraq and that the housing bubble was a problem long before you ever joined here. What's that make me?

What is it with the partisan hacks here?

Do you really think that being an elitist pessimistic finger-pointing your-way-or-the-highway tool is going to encourage people to see things your way next November?

Here's a tip: you're hurting the cause, not helping it.

You know that mad zoo called ATOT?

Yeah, well, they think all the ATPN'ers are looney-bin nutcases. That should be your first clue.

Just like you keep claiming to not support Republican here you go again with a post that says otherwise.

You're not even hiding your anti-Democrat agenda anymore.

If you predicted there would be no WMD in Iraq then why do you still support the liar in chief and his party?

May be a looney-bin nutcase but I don't talk out the side of my mouth.

I must have missed something, where in that post does he support Republicans?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Some people here predicted we'd find WMD's in Iraq... Often times they are the same people predicting housing bubble is not going to burst... How about you get one right before you start playing Nostradamus.

Hmm... I predicted that we wouldn't find WMD's in Iraq and that the housing bubble was a problem long before you ever joined here. What's that make me?

What is it with the partisan hacks here?

Do you really think that being an elitist pessimistic finger-pointing your-way-or-the-highway tool is going to encourage people to see things your way next November?

Here's a tip: you're hurting the cause, not helping it.

You know that mad zoo called ATOT?

Yeah, well, they think all the ATPN'ers are looney-bin nutcases. That should be your first clue.

Just like you keep claiming to not support Republican here you go again with a post that says otherwise.

You're not even hiding your anti-Democrat agenda anymore.

If you predicted there would be no WMD in Iraq then why do you still support the liar in chief and his party?

May be a looney-bin nutcase but I don't talk out the side of my mouth.

I must have missed something, where in that post does he support Republicans?

Wow, you better get your eyes checked. You can't see bolded words???

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Some people here predicted we'd find WMD's in Iraq... Often times they are the same people predicting housing bubble is not going to burst... How about you get one right before you start playing Nostradamus.

Hmm... I predicted that we wouldn't find WMD's in Iraq and that the housing bubble was a problem long before you ever joined here. What's that make me?

What is it with the partisan hacks here?

Do you really think that being an elitist pessimistic finger-pointing your-way-or-the-highway tool is going to encourage people to see things your way next November?

Here's a tip: you're hurting the cause, not helping it.

You know that mad zoo called ATOT?

Yeah, well, they think all the ATPN'ers are looney-bin nutcases. That should be your first clue.

Just like you keep claiming to not support Republican here you go again with a post that says otherwise.

You're not even hiding your anti-Democrat agenda anymore.

If you predicted there would be no WMD in Iraq then why do you still support the liar in chief and his party?

May be a looney-bin nutcase but I don't talk out the side of my mouth.

I must have missed something, where in that post does he support Republicans?

Wow, you better get your eyes checked. You can't see bolded words???

So let me get this straight... telling extremely vocal internet extremists that they make the Democratic moderates look bad is supporting Republicans?

 

[Phokus]

Well, if we've learned anything today, it's that:

Market response > Watergate/Nixon hack, Ben Stein

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

So let me get this straight... telling extremely vocal internet extremists that they make the Democratic moderates look bad is supporting Republicans?

That is your opinion and yes that makes it supporting Republicans.

"They make Democrat Moderates look bad" in your own words shows your bias against them.

You're so blinded by your support of Bush, Rush, Hannity et all you can't even hear yourself.

Sad

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Heh.

One conclusion is that there are people who got a mortgage that should not have one.

Another is that 87% of the people with sub prime mortgages have houses that otherwise would not have one. I guess that isn't a good thing in your book?

Flip that over-

One conclusion is that there are people who collected fees on mortgages that never should have been made.
...

Sorry, but I prefer to have these people paying on a home than throwing it down a rat hole at an apartment.

Another is that 87% of the people with sub prime mortgages now have mortgage obligations that they can't really afford, on over valued real estate. They don't have "Houses" any more than passengers had "cabins" when the Titanic went down...

Well that is just stupid to say, if 13% are having problems then how do you assume the other 87 are? Huh?????? How do you know they cannot really afford it? Are you one of these people who drives down the road and passes judgement on other drivers ... uh... she can't really afford that Mercedes - damn trophy?

What an arrogant little shit you are

Heh. Looks like I hit a nerve back on page 1.

I'm not the one saying that such folks can't afford the house they have now- it's the Lenders who seem to have changed their minds all of a sudden. By today's standards, subprime borrowers don't qualify, and if they did, they wouldn't have been getting subprime loans, right?

As for being better off buying than paying rent, that really doesn't apply in a lot of scenarios. Start out with just enough cash to close the deal, just enough credit to fudge the application, just enough real income to maybe swing the payments on one of those really creative financing deals. You have zero equity going in, and now prices are falling, so you can't get out gracefully, either, because you'd have to pay somebody to take it off your hands... just in time for your introductory loan to run out, and the monthly payment skyrockets...

And, uhh, don't forget that changes in the bankruptcy laws don't allow debtors to walk away any more- the courts will have you living on rice&beans in a hovel for several years while making partial payment to your creditors...

And I'm not trying to be arrogant, at all, but rather to encourage caution for anybody contemplating a first time home purchase today. In that position, I'd sit tight, save my money, wait for the situation to stabilize. For anybody getting caught in a corner, work with your lender, maybe the various credit counseling services, maybe a bankruptcy attorney. I suspect that things may get bad enough for lenders to be willing to work with debtors so as to maintain cashflow... half a loaf being better than nothing at all...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Well, if we've learned anything today, it's that:

Market response > Watergate/Nixon hack, Ben Stein

Best thing that could have happened for the mortgage market today. I don't expect someone not savvy to the market to understand this, nor am I gonna waste bandwidth trying to explain it to someone who insists on seeing an economic issue solely in partisan terms, so just take my word for it.

 

[OS]

CFC just announced the ongoing conditions are going to affect their earnings and "financial condition"

update, CFC falls over 12% in after hours trading

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

So let me get this straight... telling extremely vocal internet extremists that they make the Democratic moderates look bad is supporting Republicans?

That is your opinion and yes that makes it supporting Republicans.

"They make Democrat Moderates look bad" in your own words shows your bias against them.

You're so blinded by your support of Bush, Rush, Hannity et all you can't even hear yourself.

Sad

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I merely stick to business and finance, whereas you think your purview is everything.

This is how you participate in self-ownage, like I have done repeatedly in your "economy" thread and this thread.

bahahahahaha this coming from one of the people that claim the U.S. is doing best ever and booming under your hero :laugh:

yep, that's your business alright.

/my discussion in this thread with the sad conspiracy theorist nutjob with the "your hero" reply bot

 

[Trell]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: kedlav
While it is overstated, there are a number of things going on worth mentioning:
-It is having an effect on the market
-It probably isn't over yet
-It shows why big business should be trusted just as much as politicians
-It sure does suck if you were suckered into one of these loans

1. Yes. A big effect and about to get bigger
2. It's only just begun.
3. Kinda.
4. I really hate that attitude. Very few people were suckered. People were entering into business deals and thinking with their hearts instead of their heads. The banks were saying no but these other guys could get us in. "Please please please... we really want this house!"

Probably better to blame it on the "I want it now and I don't care about tomorrow" mentality of the US consumer in general.

I worked in the mortgage business for a little while and a friend of mine works as a loan closer for a few title companies. And at least in the New Jersey area alot of people are lied to about or don't understand the terms of the loans they are receiving (be it a 2/28 ARM or a Negative Am. loan).

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Phokus
Well, if we've learned anything today, it's that:

Market response > Watergate/Nixon hack, Ben Stein

Best thing that could have happened for the mortgage market today. I don't expect someone not savvy to the market to understand this, nor am I gonna waste bandwidth trying to explain it to someone who insists on seeing an economic issue solely in partisan terms, so just take my word for it.

Hmmm...I'll bite. Big market drop pushes bond prices down? More likelihood of an interest rate drop, less impact on variables?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Trell

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: kedlav
While it is overstated, there are a number of things going on worth mentioning:
-It is having an effect on the market
-It probably isn't over yet
-It shows why big business should be trusted just as much as politicians
-It sure does suck if you were suckered into one of these loans

1. Yes. A big effect and about to get bigger
2. It's only just begun.
3. Kinda.
4. I really hate that attitude. Very few people were suckered. People were entering into business deals and thinking with their hearts instead of their heads. The banks were saying no but these other guys could get us in. "Please please please... we really want this house!"

Probably better to blame it on the "I want it now and I don't care about tomorrow" mentality of the US consumer in general.

I worked in the mortgage business for a little while and a friend of mine works as a loan closer for a few title companies.

And at least in the New Jersey area alot of people are lied to about or don't understand the terms of the loans they are receiving (be it a 2/28 ARM or a Negative Am. loan).

No way.

The resident Republican supporting P&Ners swear there is no way their corporate heroes would lie, fraud or decieve.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Trell

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: kedlav
While it is overstated, there are a number of things going on worth mentioning:
-It is having an effect on the market
-It probably isn't over yet
-It shows why big business should be trusted just as much as politicians
-It sure does suck if you were suckered into one of these loans

1. Yes. A big effect and about to get bigger
2. It's only just begun.
3. Kinda.
4. I really hate that attitude. Very few people were suckered. People were entering into business deals and thinking with their hearts instead of their heads. The banks were saying no but these other guys could get us in. "Please please please... we really want this house!"

Probably better to blame it on the "I want it now and I don't care about tomorrow" mentality of the US consumer in general.

I worked in the mortgage business for a little while and a friend of mine works as a loan closer for a few title companies.

And at least in the New Jersey area alot of people are lied to about or don't understand the terms of the loans they are receiving (be it a 2/28 ARM or a Negative Am. loan).

No way.

The resident Republican supporting P&Ners swear there is no way their corporate heroes would lie, fraud or decieve.

Dave, really, could you just shut the hell up? You and your moronic "your hero bush" crap is really just fricking worn out. Almost nobody supports him but in your pathetically lame attempt at debate you lack any knowledge, any facts, and any logic and you can only resort to that idiotic line. I really wonder how you got Elite status if all you can do is flitter around the board like a dipsh!t spewing that in every post.

You know absolutely nothing about the housing issue yet you continue to make it look like you know everything. Go the hell away and do everybody a favor.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Dave, really, could you just shut the hell up? You and your moronic "your hero bush" crap is really just fricking worn out. Almost nobody supports him but in your pathetically lame attempt at debate you lack any knowledge, any facts, and any logic and you can only resort to that idiotic line. I really wonder how you got Elite status if all you can do is flitter around the board like a dipsh!t spewing that in every post.

You know absolutely nothing about the housing issue yet you continue to make it look like you know everything. Go the hell away and do everybody a favor.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

In your opinion I know nothing of this housing issue.

I however took pictures and posted years ago massive subdivisions (60,000 a pop) that banks were throwing at developers and now they are modern day ghost towns created by design and you and your fellow experts are calling this a "sub-prime" crisis.

That's a smokescreen to a huge lie by your industry and you don't like that I have exposed it. I can understand that but Americans are entitled to the truth.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Dave, really, could you just shut the hell up? You and your moronic "your hero bush" crap is really just fricking worn out. Almost nobody supports him but in your pathetically lame attempt at debate you lack any knowledge, any facts, and any logic and you can only resort to that idiotic line. I really wonder how you got Elite status if all you can do is flitter around the board like a dipsh!t spewing that in every post.

You know absolutely nothing about the housing issue yet you continue to make it look like you know everything. Go the hell away and do everybody a favor.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

In your opinion I know nothing of this housing issue.

I however took pictures and posted years ago massive subdivisions (60,000 a pop) that banks were throwing at developers and now they are modern day ghost towns created by design and you and your fellow experts are calling this a "sub-prime" crisis.

That's a smokescreen to a huge lie by your industry and you don't like that I have exposed it. I can understand that but Americans are entitled to the truth.

If opinions are like assholes, your "truth" is like one too and you can't find it with both hands, a flashlight, and Richard Simmons. Now shut up and let the adults discuss this stuff.