So, looks like the ps3 is completely hacked.

[Corporate Thug]

he finds more meaning in intelectual persuits/challenges. what's bad about that?

means he has far more ability than 99% of people in this thread - me included

there is a difference between intellectual challenges and making the hacking of a console your life.

 

[Aikouka]

That is really sad.

I don't know if I'd necessarily call it sad... it just sounds like he rather enjoys what he does. I wish I enjoyed my job even half as much as he enjoys the kernel work .

 

[RaiderJ]

so keep the tools that are piracy related out of the thread?

they recently added ntfs support iirc. things like that, getting xbmc to it, getting mkv support on there. surely that would all be fine?

I really hope they get XBMC working. With the new Fusion mini-ITX boards coming out, I was looking forward to building a nice & small HTPC. Would happily use my PS3 instead as it would eliminate another device in my home theater.

 

[Sadaiyappan]

How safe is the PS3 browser? Is it okay to login to my Facebook account from my PS3 now that the security on the PS3 has been hacked? My PS3 is running OFW.

 

[BD2003]

I can't think of any reason how the ps3 browser could be somehow compromised on OFW. I wouldn't worry.

 

[ponyo]

I'm thinking about installing CFW on my fat ps3 but dont want to lose Netflix access. I could care less about online play but losing Netflix would suck.

 

[Dumac]

I'm thinking about installing CFW on my fat ps3 but dont want to lose Netflix access. I could care less about online play but losing Netflix would suck.

Uhuh...

 

[DaveSimmons]

How safe is the PS3 browser? Is it okay to login to my Facebook account from my PS3 now that the security on the PS3 has been hacked? My PS3 is running OFW.

Security of the PS3 has only been hacked if you install custom firmware that someone modified to include back doors / intentional security flaws / keyloggers in it.

The stock firmware from Sony is perfectly safe, and traffic between your PS3 (with stock firmware) and the net via HTTPS / SSL is just as safe as with a PC.

 

[magomago]

So you think pirates... people who are going out of their way to not pay for games... are going to buy another entire PS3? I don't know what to say about that.

easily dude. when you have a library of 70+ pirated games, 300 dollars is peanuts.

but you gotta have access to everything else, otherwise its not worth it.


imo pirates are two categories:

(a) kiddies who don't have $$ to buy and then get into piracy that way

(b) people who have $$, but simply don't want to pay for entertainment if they can get it for free. if others can access it for free, why shouldn't they as well? Seems unfair to make them pay for it

I'm not arguing if the logic is right (I think its wrong), i'm just saying this is what i see.

kiddies won't buy that second console, but the people with an income stream will. They'll sit down and do the math and decide if there are enough 'offline games only' that they like that it becomes worth getting a second console (300/(20->50) dollars = range of # of games needed to play to break even). that way they go the legitimate route when they have no choice, and then be a douchebag pirate when they do have a choice.

as weird as it is, its just economics

 

[velillen]

imo pirates are two categories:

(a) kiddies who don't have $$ to buy and then get into piracy that way

(b) people who have $$, but simply don't want to pay for entertainment if they can get it for free. if others can access it for free, why shouldn't they as well? Seems unfair to make them pay for it

I'm not arguing if the logic is right (I think its wrong), i'm just saying this is what i see.

i think there is a third version as well.

Those who want to demo a full version of a game instead of a heavily modified version. I know i'd often like to be able to see all the options and things and not just load up a game and pretty much only be able to see 1 level. Say Black ops, its nice to have the campaign and also try out the spec ops for instance. In the demo you get a single level.

Not saying i pirate games ( i dont) but thats a third logic i could easily see. Plenty of times i've tried a demo and gone meh, only to borrow the game from a friend and actually enjoy it

 

[magomago]

i think there is a third version as well.

Those who want to demo a full version of a game instead of a heavily modified version. I know i'd often like to be able to see all the options and things and not just load up a game and pretty much only be able to see 1 level. Say Black ops, its nice to have the campaign and also try out the spec ops for instance. In the demo you get a single level.

Not saying i pirate games ( i dont) but thats a third logic i could easily see. Plenty of times i've tried a demo and gone meh, only to borrow the game from a friend and actually enjoy it

meh i wouldn't cal that pirating

sampling the game isn't pirating at all from my view.

 

[novasatori]

there is also the people who have money to buy games and do buy games but want more and can't afford them all or don't want to wait for prices to drop

I upgraded my ps3 to 3.56 so I could buy and play fat princess, but I just read someone decrypted the 3.56 lv1 and lv2 and people are still playing on psn with 3.55 cfw after being banned by manipulating the ps3's ID

 

[velillen]

meh i wouldn't cal that pirating

sampling the game isn't pirating at all from my view.

it is in the eyes of Sony though. Your illegally downloading a game and playing on CFW. Even if you only play a bit then delete the game it is still piracy to many people.

 

[Corporate Thug]

meh i wouldn't cal that pirating

sampling the game isn't pirating at all from my view.

the law says otherwise

 

[Anteaus]

meh i wouldn't cal that pirating

sampling the game isn't pirating at all from my view.

Games, as well as movies and music, are licensed as all or nothing. It's up to them to decide if they want to release free content in the form of a demo, but the end user can't unilaterally give themselves the right to view/use all or a portion of a product prior to licensing. If you don't like the bone they give you for taste test, then its your prerogative as a consumer to walk away. It's like eating most of a steak before deciding it's undercooked and refusing to pay.

By your logic, it would be legal for anyone to watch the first 30 minutes (or all) of a movie, then decide not to pay for what you just saw. If you play 20% of a game in order to "test, not pirate", then you should be obligated to pay for that 20% of the content. Since licensing doesn't allow for partial payment, the only real option is to go all in or all out.

Anything else is just people trying to justify piracy. You might not have bad intentions, but in this case the law doesn't intention into consideration. Piracy is piracy, even if it happens behind locked doors.

The problem I have with pirates is not that they steal. It's that they never think there was anything wrong with it in the first place.

 

[tommo123]

the law says otherwise

the law says and has said a lot of things that were wrong.

if they supplied demos that were real indicators of the game then it wouldn't be necessary.

it's easy for them to tackle this. list all of peoples excuses and tackle them. provide a good demo for example.

once they eliminate this you'd have no choice but to admit that you're a pirate.

barr 1 thing though. faulty software. if it doesnt work as advertises then you should get a refund. that's something they wont fix

 

[Anteaus]

the law says and has said a lot of things that were wrong.

if they supplied demos that were real indicators of the game then it wouldn't be necessary.

it's easy for them to tackle this. list all of peoples excuses and tackle them. provide a good demo for example.

once they eliminate this you'd have no choice but to admit that you're a pirate.

barr 1 thing though. faulty software. if it doesnt work as advertises then you should get a refund. that's something they wont fix

I understand your point but I would like to counter with a couple more.

First, Demo's are optional and they should never be used as a scapegoat to justify piracy. Personally, I think they should limit it to trailers, but thats just an opinion. If the developer decides to release a buggy demo, then it's up to the consumer to call them out on it buy not buying their product. Saying your going to steal because the demo sucked makes no sense since you're still willing to use their product, but you just don't believe you should pay for it. The value of a product has no correlation with the need to compensate them for it. If you think Mcdonald's has crappy cheeseburgers, it doesn't mean you get to eat them for free. I realize that software isn't a tangeable item, but the metophor fits. I realize it is extremely easy to acquire something for nothing in regards to software, but that doesn't make it ok. It just makes you a douchebag, even if there isn't anyone to call you out on it.

Second, I agree about faulty software. However, calling something "faulty" is very subjective because if it works as expected on even one machine, the software is valid. It might be poorly written, but that doesn't make it faulty, and thus this is a touchy subject because anyone could walk in a store and demand their money back because of faulty software without requiring proof. There is a reason they don't accept software returns these days.

People have a tendancy to be habitually dishonest if there are no real incentives not to be, which is the crux of the whole matter. For those times when they are called out on it, they act like they are 12 year olds who just got caught in the cookie jar when they know its wrong...making all sorts of excuses and justifications. They know it's stealing, because if they didn't why would they have excuses? Usually we get some witty philosophical diatribe about how it's not stealing because of X, Y or Z. The funny part, there are people that will steal thousands of dollars worth of software in a heartbeat, but the same person would object to stealing $10 dollars from someone on the street. People are so confusing.

 

[BD2003]

I understand your point but I would like to counter with a couple more.

First, Demo's are optional and they should never be used as a scapegoat to justify piracy. Personally, I think they should limit it to trailers, but thats just an opinion. If the developer decides to release a buggy demo, then it's up to the consumer to call them out on it buy not buying their product. Saying your going to steal because the demo sucked makes no sense since you're still willing to use their product, but you just don't believe you should pay for it. The value of a product has no correlation with the need to compensate them for it. If you think Mcdonald's has crappy cheeseburgers, it doesn't mean you get to eat them for free. I realize that software isn't a tangeable item, but the metophor fits. I realize it is extremely easy to acquire something for nothing in regards to software, but that doesn't make it ok. It just makes you a douchebag, even if there isn't anyone to call you out on it.

Second, I agree about faulty software. However, calling something "faulty" is very subjective because if it works as expected on even one machine, the software is valid. It might be poorly written, but that doesn't make it faulty, and thus this is a touchy subject because anyone could walk in a store and demand their money back because of faulty software without requiring proof. There is a reason they don't accept software returns these days.

People have a tendancy to be habitually dishonest if there are no real incentives not to be, which is the crux of the whole matter. For those times when they are called out on it, they act like they are 12 year olds who just got caught in the cookie jar when they know its wrong...making all sorts of excuses and justifications. They know it's stealing, because if they didn't why would they have excuses? Usually we get some witty philosophical diatribe about how it's not stealing because of X, Y or Z. The funny part, there are people that will steal thousands of dollars worth of software in a heartbeat, but the same person would object to stealing $10 dollars from someone on the street. People are so confusing.

Just to play devils advocate...there is one crucial difference here. You cant eat a cheesburger without getting a physical cheeseburger from mcdonalds. You can, however, sample a game illicitly without any *actual* loss to anyone. So one could theoretically sample the game without the dev being burdened by the cost of even distributing it.

The only reason a company would really want to withhold a demo is the chance that you wouldnt buy the game after actually trying it, because it aint worth buying it.

Note that this isnt an argument for piracy, this is an argument for demos and good games. On more than one occasion a really awesome demo has gotten me to instantly open my wallet for a game, and likewise close it for a shit game.

Its clear where the law stands on the issue. Its clear where sony and game devs stand on the issue. But OTOH I'm sure sony, activision and the whole bunch would love nothing more than to get you to pay as much money as possible for as little development as possible. Its hard for me to consider them innocent little angels here.

As a gamer and consumer, I'm of two minds about the situation. I really dont like paying for shit games, I absolutely despise DRM and any other similar raping of consumer rights, but piracy is a real problem and game companies deserve to get paid for their work. But the product should be able to sell itself and stand on its own as worthy of being bought.

My typical solution is to just wait a few months later till the games are used and cost only like $20, but that opens a whole new can of worms about the secondary market.

 

[Minjin]

Since everything is going to pay per use in the name of cost cutting and efficiency, how about a pay per play? You get the whole game and the first hour is free. Every hour after that is a certain amount, lets say a quarter. That would give video game developers incentive to make games that are good, that make you want to keep playing, to keep updating and enhancing them, and fixes the demo problem.

Let's tie achievements into cost as well. Every achievement you get gives you a discount on the next hour of play.

 

[Anteaus]

Just to play devils advocate...there is one crucial difference here. You cant eat a cheesburger without getting a physical cheeseburger from mcdonalds. You can, however, sample a game illicitly without any *actual* loss to anyone. So one could theoretically sample the game without the dev being burdened by the cost of even distributing it.

I specifically mentioned that I'm aware that software isn't a tangeable good, which is why this is a philosophical quandary. I'm going to assume on some level you agree with intellectual property. If someone writes and song or a book, you're likely willing to concede that they own that material. Now, there is a difference between morality and ethics. Many people wrong confuse this with a moral problem, when in fact it exists in the realm of ethics.

There is nothing immoral about taking what technically isn't there to take. Your not stealing anything that someone would miss. Therefore, from a moral standpoint there is no theft. However, ethics are derived by society in the form of rules and laws. Often times these laws operate completely outside the realm of morality....it is not immoral to talk on your cell for while driving, but its unethical (i.e. illegal) in some places. I agree with your "it's not really theft" premise, but this isn't bible school either. Society has determined that it is wrong to use other people's software without their permission, and thus it is unethical regardless of a persons view of morality.

Copyright laws were created for economic reasons. This is one of the few times where monopoly is preferred. This goes for any product, but if you are the one who owns the rights to it, you have the right to profit from it. Ironically enough, capitalism thrives on monopoly. It's not a dirty word when used this way.

Basically, I'm getting down to this. The reason it is illegal to copy software is because licensing is the only way where the developer can maintain legal authority over it while profiting from its use. Since developers literally make all their money from software, every unit counts. I'll concede that not every pirated copy would have been a sold unit. That's impossible to calculate. However, like everything else, it doesn't take much to make a big difference.

At the end of the day, it is illegal. I'm not an angel. I've done it time and again, but I'm not delusional to think I have a right to do it. I'm try to take a step back and look at the big picture and try to realize that I need to support my hobby, which means supporting the developers that support it.

Anyways, I apologize for the soap box. People are going to do what they will do. Sometimes it isn't enough for people to know that it is wrong to do something. Sometimes they need to know WHY it is wrong in the first place.

As far as Sony, I think they go to far. Chasing offenders is one thing, but blatantly removing features from their console as a reactionary measure is just stupid.

 

[Corporate Thug]

the law says and has said a lot of things that were wrong.

if they supplied demos that were real indicators of the game then it wouldn't be necessary.

it's easy for them to tackle this. list all of peoples excuses and tackle them. provide a good demo for example.

once they eliminate this you'd have no choice but to admit that you're a pirate.

barr 1 thing though. faulty software. if it doesnt work as advertises then you should get a refund. that's something they wont fix

you're right but it doesn't change the fact that you have to follow it or prepare to deal with the repercussions.

 

[gorcorps]

Since everything is going to pay per use in the name of cost cutting and efficiency, how about a pay per play? You get the whole game and the first hour is free. Every hour after that is a certain amount, lets say a quarter. That would give video game developers incentive to make games that are good, that make you want to keep playing, to keep updating and enhancing them, and fixes the demo problem.

Let's tie achievements into cost as well. Every achievement you get gives you a discount on the next hour of play.

So... You want to bring back the arcade? Why?

 

[tommo123]

I understand your point but I would like to counter with a couple more.

First, Demo's are optional and they should never be used as a scapegoat to justify piracy. Personally, I think they should limit it to trailers, but thats just an opinion. If the developer decides to release a buggy demo, then it's up to the consumer to call them out on it buy not buying their product. Saying your going to steal because the demo sucked makes no sense since you're still willing to use their product, but you just don't believe you should pay for it. The value of a product has no correlation with the need to compensate them for it. If you think Mcdonald's has crappy cheeseburgers, it doesn't mean you get to eat them for free. I realize that software isn't a tangeable item, but the metophor fits. I realize it is extremely easy to acquire something for nothing in regards to software, but that doesn't make it ok. It just makes you a douchebag, even if there isn't anyone to call you out on it.

Second, I agree about faulty software. However, calling something "faulty" is very subjective because if it works as expected on even one machine, the software is valid. It might be poorly written, but that doesn't make it faulty, and thus this is a touchy subject because anyone could walk in a store and demand their money back because of faulty software without requiring proof. There is a reason they don't accept software returns these days.

People have a tendancy to be habitually dishonest if there are no real incentives not to be, which is the crux of the whole matter. For those times when they are called out on it, they act like they are 12 year olds who just got caught in the cookie jar when they know its wrong...making all sorts of excuses and justifications. They know it's stealing, because if they didn't why would they have excuses? Usually we get some witty philosophical diatribe about how it's not stealing because of X, Y or Z. The funny part, there are people that will steal thousands of dollars worth of software in a heartbeat, but the same person would object to stealing $10 dollars from someone on the street. People are so confusing.

look at games like black ops with major online problems from the get go. that's faulty software.

if i wanted to i should be able to take it back for a refund as it's not fit for purpose (UK law).

 

[Minjin]

So... You want to bring back the arcade? Why?

I gave the reasons. Why did you ignore them?

 

[purbeast0]

Since everything is going to pay per use in the name of cost cutting and efficiency, how about a pay per play? You get the whole game and the first hour is free. Every hour after that is a certain amount, lets say a quarter. That would give video game developers incentive to make games that are good, that make you want to keep playing, to keep updating and enhancing them, and fixes the demo problem.

Let's tie achievements into cost as well. Every achievement you get gives you a discount on the next hour of play.

yea, i'm sure the devs getting $2.00 to $2.50 per copy for god of war 3 would jump all over this plan...

sorry but this is one of the dumbest ideas.