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So is the Iraq escapade worth the money?

halik

halik

Lifer
I'm just kind of curious about the attitude of the war supporters ... is it worth the money?
I can't say that i supported any of this from the start (one reason being the fact that I saw a documentary on Saddam and how much of a fake muslim he was), but there were a lot of people all about it. How much is it really worth to you?
 
I think of it this way. Suppose Bush was right that the Iraq war prevented terrorism. Lets go really big and pretend it prevented one incident the massive size of 9/11. In this case, would I rather :
(A) have the lost American lives and lost money from another 9/11, or
(B) have the lost American lives and lost money from the Iraq war.

Clearly the American lives lost is about the same either way (so far). So that is a wash. However the Iraq war cost more money (so far). And this is the best case scenerio. Worst case scenerio is that the Iraq war does not prevent another 9/11 so we get both (A) and (B).

Thus, I choose to go back in history, and have another 9/11 instead of the Iraq war.


Note: I realize I'll get flamed for this post for using thought instead of emotion. Flame on. If you can prove that an American soldier's life is worth a different amount that an American civilian, then good for you - I won't agree though.
 
I think that if another 9/11 would have ocurred, the sheeple would be for just about any war that would have any kind of chance of taking down any amount of terrorists. This in turn would lead to bush enacting even more radical "patriot-act like" laws. Even more money and lives would probably be lost due to the war. Just my opinion though, wut does everyone else think?
 
Originally posted by: dullard
I think of it this way. Suppose Bush was right that the Iraq war prevented terrorism. Lets go really big and pretend it prevented one incident the massive size of 9/11. In this case, would I rather :
(A) have the lost American lives and lost money from another 9/11, or
(B) have the lost American lives and lost money from the Iraq war.

Clearly the American lives lost is about the same either way (so far). So that is a wash. However the Iraq war cost more money (so far). And this is the best case scenerio. Worst case scenerio is that the Iraq war does not prevent another 9/11 so we get both (A) and (B).

Thus, I choose to go back in history, and have another 9/11 instead of the Iraq war.


Note: I realize I'll get flamed for this post for using thought instead of emotion. Flame on. If you can prove that an American soldier's life is worth a different amount that an American civilian, then good for you - I won't agree though.
Click to expand...

Your theory has one fatal flaw, in that you are assuming there would be only one massive attack like that on 9/11. If you choose to follow your theory, you have to take into account that there would most likely be many more attacks... not necessarily all of the same magnitude, but still, you see my point.
 
Originally posted by: moomoo40moo
I think that if another 9/11 would have ocurred, the sheeple would be for just about any war that would have any kind of chance of taking down any amount of terrorists. This in turn would lead to bush enacting even more radical "patriot-act like" laws. Even more money and lives would probably be lost due to the war. Just my opinion though, wut does everyone else think?
Click to expand...

While the anti-war crowd would cry even louder that the president didn't do enough to protect us.
 
9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq... Going into Iraq has created a haven for recruiting new terrorists.. and now Hamas is in control of Iran.. how are we safer? It did nothing...
 
Originally posted by: jrenz
Your theory has one fatal flaw, in that you are assuming there would be only one massive attack like that on 9/11. If you choose to follow your theory, you have to take into account that there would most likely be many more attacks... not necessarily all of the same magnitude, but still, you see my point.
Click to expand...
There could be several smaller attacks. Heck, there could be several 9/11 sized attacks. That is true. But, you forget the other size of the coin. There have been two wars already and possibly a third in Iran. And the Iraq war isn't over. There WILL be thousands of more American soldiers killed (in Iraq alone) and hundreds of billions more spent (in Iraq alone) in the next couple of years.

An ongoing Iraq war is equivalent (in cost of lives) to having a massive 9/11 attack every 3 years or so (and it far outweighs the financial cost). So, given the choice of a 9/11 attack every few years or the Iraq war, I'd still have to choose the series of 9/11 style attacks.
 
Its somewhat an intangables costs vs. real costs----and are we safer yet. We have to realise that the main target of 911 was the world trade center---which just happened to be in NYC. Once the world trade center attack suceeded, the other two redundant planes were throwaways.

Choosing Saudi hi-jackers was a deliberate ploy to drive a wedge between us and the Saudies. But now that Bush has over reacted, we have lost not only the moral highground, but has made the United States target number one in every terrorists radar screen. Target number one used to be the old Eupeopean powers and that for the sins of their colonial past. ---with the US receiving a pass there because they had not commited those sins.

Now the US is and will remain target number one---when the next attack comes is a who knows. Bit the Iraq war was a big mistake in my opinion-----with the final cost likely to make what we have lost to date look like a pittance.

But fools rush in where angels fear to tread. I'm pessamistic about GWB's optimism.
 
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: jrenz
Your theory has one fatal flaw, in that you are assuming there would be only one massive attack like that on 9/11. If you choose to follow your theory, you have to take into account that there would most likely be many more attacks... not necessarily all of the same magnitude, but still, you see my point.
Click to expand...
There could be several smaller attacks. Heck, there could be several 9/11 sized attacks. That is true. But, you forget the other size of the coin. There have been two wars already and possibly a third in Iran. And the Iraq war isn't over. There WILL be thousands of more American soldiers killed (in Iraq alone) and hundreds of billions more spent (in Iraq alone) in the next couple of years.

An ongoing Iraq war is equivalent (in cost of lives) to having a massive 9/11 attack every 3 years or so (and it far outweighs the financial cost). So, given the choice of a 9/11 attack every few years or the Iraq war, I'd still have to choose the series of 9/11 style attacks.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq... Going into Iraq has created a haven for recruiting new terrorists.. and now Hamas is in control of Iran.. how are we safer? It did nothing...
Click to expand...

Don't forget who just got elected in Palestine.
 
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Pssstt... Al Qaeda was head quartered in Afghanistan not Iraq... Einstien:roll:

 
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Nope, I'm including damages done - to the buildings, the contents, and the economy. Do a search for it, there have been several studies done.

I do exclude the stock market, since for every dollar lost, there is a dollar made - it is a zero sum event. Plus, the stock market bounced right back to where it was before.

 
Originally posted by: sumyungai And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't for my horse I wouldn't have spent that year in college.



 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Pssstt... Al Qaeda was head quartered in Afghanistan not Iraq... Einstien:roll:
Click to expand...

Oh really? Is Al Qaeda our only threat? What does Al Qaeda stand (idealogically speaking) for? Who else has the same believes and goals as Al Qaeda?
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Pssstt... Al Qaeda was head quartered in Afghanistan not Iraq... Einstien:roll:
Click to expand...
Rule of thumb - one shouldn't misspell Einstein when correcting another - inferring he is not intelligent 😀

 
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Nope, I'm including damages done - to the buildings, the contents, and the economy. Do a search for it, there have been several studies done.

I do exclude the stock market, since for every dollar lost, there is a dollar made - it is a zero sum event. Plus, the stock market bounced right back to where it was before.
Click to expand...

And that study is what, that 9/11 has no effect on us? Link please?

You're telling me that people who work for the airline industry, travel agencies, restaurants, theme parks, malls, etc weren't immediately effected by 9/11? As a subsequent effect when people have less money in their pockets, people spend less and jobs in other industries were affected as well. You should do some research, there was a study on this. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: sumyungai
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Pssstt... Al Qaeda was head quartered in Afghanistan not Iraq... Einstien:roll:
Click to expand...

Oh really? Is Al Qaeda our only threat? What does Al Qaeda stand (idealogically speaking) for? Who else has the same believes and goals as Al Qaeda?
Click to expand...
A gazillion other groups that exist in several other countries but didn't exist in Iraq until the US invaded.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Pssstt... Al Qaeda was head quartered in Afghanistan not Iraq... Einstein:roll:
Click to expand...
Rule of thumb - one shouldn't misspell Einstien when correcting another - inferring he is not intelligent 😀
Click to expand...
Yeah I shouldn't have misspelled Einstein or inferred he is unintelligent, just mistaken. Sometimes I get caught up in Ad Homs when it really doesn't help any argument.
 
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're telling me that people who work for the airline industry, travel agencies, restaurants, theme parks, malls, etc weren't immediately effected by 9/11?
Click to expand...
Point to where I said any of that. You can't. Point to where I said anything even close to that. You can't.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: sumyungai
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: sumyungai
You're forgetting a 9/11 style attack costs America money as well. Didn't you see the stock market after 9/11? How was your job after 9/11? Many people were laid off due to the impact of 9/11. Our tourist industry went to a screeching holt and how many jobs were affected by this? How many of these types of attacks can our economy withstand? And remember if we never went to Iraq, these types of attacks could carry on indefinitely .
Click to expand...
Pssstt... Al Qaeda was head quartered in Afghanistan not Iraq... Einstien:roll:
Click to expand...

Oh really? Is Al Qaeda our only threat? What does Al Qaeda stand (idealogically speaking) for? Who else has the same believes and goals as Al Qaeda?
Click to expand...
A gazillion other groups that exist in several other countries but didn't exist in Iraq until the US invaded.
Click to expand...
Well that's not entirely true, there was an Al Qaeda Camp in Kurd Controlled Northern Iraq which was also at odds with Hussein along with America
 
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