So Intel still making Core Duo chips? And Pentium too?!

[IHAVEAQUESTION]

I thought Pentium was long dead and I didn't even know they still make Core Duo. Aren't these two designs utterly insufficient compared to Core 2 Duo? Why would anyone want them? And where does celeron come into picture now?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

<--- CPU forum

 

[TridenT]

I understand you have questions, but put them in the right forum, mkay?

 

[Lean L]

yeah, pentium dual core seems silly... idk why they stopped using the pentium name... and to have it still around is just confusing

 

[AstroManLuca]

They still make Core Duo? As in, Core 1 Duo? I didn't know that.

Pentium and Celeron, though, are just names applied to Core 2 Duo-based CPUs that have less L2 cache than typical Core 2 Duos. In fact, some Pentium Dual Cores (such as the E5200) are very similar to older C2Ds. A friend of mine has an E6xxx series Core 2 Duo that has 2 MB of L2 cache, just like the E5200, and actually runs at a slower clock speed. Nowadays, C2Ds have 3-6 MB of L2.

 

[Special K]

CPUs built on larger processes are more resistant to soft errors from sources such as alpha particles. These are valuable for space applications.

 

[OulOat]

Sometimes reliability is more important than performance. IE, space, deep sea, jungle, desert, etc... You can bet that these old chips cost a lot more than when they were first sold (no more mass manufacturing).

 

[alpineranger]

I remember hearing the anouncement when Intel stopped making 386s just a few years ago. These older chips are still widely used in some embedded applications where speed is not required by special versions (rad hard, etc) are required.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: Special K
CPUs built on larger processes are more resistant to soft errors from sources such as alpha particles. These are valuable for space applications.

A lot of space stuff uses the god awful RCA 1802. :vomit:
Not sure if they still use it on anything, but it was definitely used past it's (non mil/space) prime.
They made a silicon on sapphire rad-hard version.

 

[So]

IIRC, intel still made the 486 until the mid 2000s for embedded systems uses.

Edit: yep, they stopped a mere two years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80486

Apparently you don't realize that most applications of CPUs aren't for the cutting edge stuff, but stuff that just works and is cheap to put in.

 

[mjrpes3]

Originally posted by: OulOat
Sometimes reliability is more important than performance. IE, space, deep sea, jungle, desert, etc... You can bet that these old chips cost a lot more than when they were first sold (no more mass manufacturing).

And they are more "reliable" in the sense that it would take lots of engineering effort and raise the risk of errors if a core design on a space ship were to have its adequate and "designed to spec" CPU replaced with something unnecessarily faster.

 

[So]

Oh, and I still use 8088's (microcontroller version of the 8086) for some of my projects. Still does the job.

 

[Zugzwang152]

no way, in a few years they'll be putting core duo's in cell phones

 

[Parasitic]

Some of the Pentium dual cores are rebranded lower-specs C2D's...I even once had a $300 Compaq laptop with a 64-bit Pentium dual core.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: So
Oh, and I still use 8088's (microcontroller version of the 8086) for some of my projects. Still does the job.

My calculator uses a Zilog Z80. This chip was also used in the Sega Master System, Sega Game Gear, Sega Genesis, and ColecoVision.

Old processors are awesome. My 386 was so bad ass that it didn't even have a heatsink. My Pentium 1 was close; it had a heatsink with no thermal grease.

 

[GFORCE100]

Originally posted by: IHAVEAQUESTION
I thought Pentium was long dead and I didn't even know they still make Core Duo. Aren't these two designs utterly insufficient compared to Core 2 Duo? Why would anyone want them? And where does celeron come into picture now?

You're thinking is inline with a typical consumer.

In simple English it's down to business, manufacturing, marketing and best practices.

It's unfeasible to scrap all your current production from your current design to a new design since this isn't efficient to put it bluntly. To be a little more specific it's like this:

- You need time to improve yields on a new die design and the best way to find errata is by monitoring how the market reacts, you can only remove so much errata in pre-production
- You need market demand to make it worthwhile to ramp production so to not over supply a product
- You need to keep feeding the market all the products they consume and not just concentrate on your new wonderful processor as otherwise this as severe financial implications

The above brings me into manufacturing because you cannot just switch the factory to making a new die overnight. This is especially true if you're moving to a new manufacturing process which means buying new machinery for the given factory, setting it up, doing test runs, validation etc. You do not go reconfiguring your fabs to new spec until their is a demand or until it becomes financially feasible. Intel reuses previous nm machinery for its chipsets. The latest Core 2 Duo and i7 (including i5) chipsets are all 65nm, down from 90nm previously.

You must also bare in mind side issues such as the fact that Intel is obliged to keep production of various models of its processors before they become EOL. This is such that the various workstations and servers that are out there have spares. Embedded systems also need older parts since even an Atom processor is way too fast for what they do (plus it in many cases would mean re-writing the expert systems code base again).

Then that falls into marketing. It is pointless making a product that there is no desire for in the market. That's just spending marketing dollars for nothing. You need to gradually switch the mindsets of the consumers (and business users). Marketing campaigns take time, planning and lots of money. They follow a set theme and must be allowed to run their course.

All the above is also best practices as is re-using the Pentium brand where applicable. Intel has spent billions on marketing the Pentium brand since 1993 and hence using it is a valid business move, and thought through marketing decision. Ask anyone on the street if they know what a Pentium is and they will most surely say Intel. Marketing interlinks with psychology, people feel more at home with brands they recognise. Creating brands takes time, planning and money, as part of a wide series of marketing campaigns.

The Celeron has, is, and will remain Intel's economy line of CPU's for both desktop and mobile. The brand was created in 1998 and is now matured into the marketplace. The same goes for Xeon, also launched in 1998.

Once Intel's GPU is publicly unveiled, expect a new brand to accompany it too, just like we had with the Atom for 2 years+ now.

Intel no longer makes Yonah based processors. Even the slowest mobile models are all Core 2 Duo, even the Pentium branded ones albeit with less L2 cache and some featured disabled internally, and a slower FSB at that. Of course the Atom series is a whole different story.

 

[LoneNinja]

The new Pentium Dual Core and Celeron are much better than the old stuff from the Pentium 4 era. It's the same stuff now as the Core 2 Duo, just less cache, and in the celerons case usually only a single core.