So if John Stockton were in his prime today

[ElFenix]

yes, stockton would still be the biggest flopper in the association.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

 

[Lepard]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

LOL you obviously hav no idea what you are talking about.

Dream Team 92 > *

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Lepard

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

LOL you obviously hav no idea what you are talking about.

Dream Team 92 > *

What a compelling argument. :roll:

 

[Lepard]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Lepard

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

LOL you obviously hav no idea what you are talking about.

Dream Team 92 > *

What a compelling argument. :roll:

Am I wrong? Look at the talent and cohesiveness of that team.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: Lepard

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Lepard

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

LOL you obviously hav no idea what you are talking about.

Dream Team 92 > *

What a compelling argument. :roll:

Am I wrong? Look at the talent and cohesiveness of that team.

The 92 Dream Team was hot sh!t. The talent on that team was insane.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

You may wish to review the lineup of the '92 USA team. It looks more like HOF rollcall than an Olympic team.

 

[wkabel23]

Stockon has a much better career than Nash, at this point at least. Even if Nash plays some more, Stockton will have the better career. That being said, I think Nash right now is just as good, and perhaps better, than Stockton. Nash is 2x the offensive threat that Stockton was and can pass equally well, if not better. The nature of Stockton and Nash's game is that they benefit from having players around them and the players around them benefit from having a great PG. Amare might not put up the same stats w/o Nash; and you have to be kidding if you think Karl Malone would have been as good without Stockton. Likewise, Nash and Stockton got a lot of assists from those big guys being able to overpower people and put the ball in.

Either way, they are both amazing PGs and fun to watch.

 

[NeoV]

Stockton - better defender, rebounder
Nash - better shooter, better athlete

Stockton was a great player, but I'd guess 40-50% of his assists were pick/roll or pick/pop plays with Malone, one of the all-time great scorers in the league.

I'd take Nash in his prime over Stockton.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

hahahahahahaha you've got to be kidding me. Did you watch any of the 92 Dream Team games? Nobody will ever dominate world competitions in basketball like that ever again. Not only was the talent insane, but they actually played together. It was not a one man show.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: tigersty1e

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: KingGheedora

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Depends on whether you are talking about putting Stockton in Nash's place, or if he'd still be feeding the ball to an also-still-in-his-prime Karl Malone.
I think some of Stockton's impressive stats are so because of playing with Karl all those years.

It'd be interesting to see how Stockton would do without a go-to Hall of Famer to pass to.

Nash isn't passing to multiple all-stars, (one of whom has Hall of Fame potential)?

Yes, he is: Marion and Stoudamire. Not to mention the 6th man of the year in Barbosa.

Stoudamire SUCKS. He's a nothing without Nash. Marion is ok and Barbosa is actually quite decent too, but Stoudamire isn't anyone spectacular. Without Nash, he would be over.

You're smoking crack and blind. All at the same time.

Stoudamire was owning in the 2 years at Pheonix (straight from high school). His first year out of high school (rookie season) when the Suns were crap, he was schooling seasoned vets.

He won Rookie of the Year in the same year Yao Ming was a rookie. Yao was no slouch either at 13.5 points 8 rebounds 2 blocks.

Nash's assist total jumped from 8/game to 12/game from going from Dallas to PHX.

Get out of this thread and let the big boys discuss.

I'm not smoking crack. Dallas back in the Nash days wasn't even a balanced team. It was all about outside shots and Dirk would do all these pullup jumpers. Just watch how they played against SA those years when they lost and you will see. DAL didnt even have a strong center and Nash's offensive capabilities couldnt really be seen.

Stoudamire is a decent player I'll say that. He's not spectacular, and I think he's often overrated. Karl Malone could school him any day, and if it weren't for Nash, I think he wouldn't excel as much as he seems to today.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Stockton - better defender, rebounder
Nash - better shooter, better athlete

Stockton was a great player, but I'd guess 40-50% of his assists were pick/roll or pick/pop plays with Malone, one of the all-time great scorers in the league.

I'd take Nash in his prime over Stockton.

This pretty much sums it up. I don't recall Stockton being the offensive threat that Nash was. The fact that Nash is number 3 all time in free throw shooting is pretty impressive. Stockton played during an era where it was easy to accumulate assists due to all the NBA rule changes that allowed scoring to be much easier (3-point line was moved in, no zone defense, etc). Also, Nash's passing is simply much more amazing.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

hahahahahahaha you've got to be kidding me. Did you watch any of the 92 Dream Team games? Nobody will ever dominate world competitions in basketball like that ever again. Not only was the talent insane, but they actually played together. It was not a one man show.

Yeah I watched them. The other teams were garbage. Argetina from 2004 would have thrashed all of the other teams except the dream team. They would have lost to the dream team but it would have been a lot closer than the crap opponents they played before. If you read closely you will see that I said "hard time" which is not the same as "beating". I know that many of you have a hard time discerning the difference, but there is one.

And the whole point was that the international players are GOOD and that's why they are in the league. International players now are MUCH better than they were a decade or two ago. Heck, half the players on that 2004 argentina team are better NBA players than christian laettner ever was (though he was a great college player), and he was on the 92 dream team.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: brandonbullBecause Stockton played against guys that knew how to play basketball. The guys of Stockton's time frame were some of the NBA's biggest stars. Guys from outside of the US never dreamed of being the stars in the NBA until it became the "And1 league".

What a crock. Nowitzki would have dominated in stockton's time just as much, perhaps more. And the argetina team that won the olympic gold would have given any dream team a hard time.

hahahahahahaha you've got to be kidding me. Did you watch any of the 92 Dream Team games? Nobody will ever dominate world competitions in basketball like that ever again. Not only was the talent insane, but they actually played together. It was not a one man show.

Yeah I watched them. The other teams were garbage. Argetina from 2004 would have thrashed all of the other teams except the dream team. They would have lost to the dream team but it would have been a lot closer than the crap opponents they played before. If you read closely you will see that I said "hard time" which is not the same as "beating". I know that many of you have a hard time discerning the difference, but there is one.

And the whole point was that the international players are GOOD and that's why they are in the league. International players now are MUCH better than they were a decade or two ago. Heck, half the players on that 2004 argentina team are better NBA players than christian laettner ever was (though he was a great college player), and he was on the 92 dream team.

You're comparing the Argentinian team to by far the worst player on the Dream Team. If you mean by "hard time" that the Dream Team would have smashed them by 30, then yeah the Dream Team would have had a hard time with them.

 

[Accipiter22]

he's better than steve nash right now probably. Nash sucks.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: brandonbull
I loved basketball growing up but now i'd rather have hot pokers stuck in my eyes than watch 48 minutes of a slamdunk contest.

The last slam dunk contest that was fun to watch was when JR Rider won it. He did a dunk called the "eastbay funk" where he put the ball through his legs before slamming it. That was the last original dunk. After that, every dunk in future contests had already been done.

krunchy, brandon's comment was that every NBA game is now a dunk contest. He wasn't actually referring to the dunk contest.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: brandonbull
I loved basketball growing up but now i'd rather have hot pokers stuck in my eyes than watch 48 minutes of a slamdunk contest.

The last slam dunk contest that was fun to watch was when JR Rider won it. He did a dunk called the "eastbay funk" where he put the ball through his legs before slamming it. That was the last original dunk. After that, every dunk in future contests had already been done.

krunchy, brandon's comment was that every NBA game is now a dunk contest. He wasn't actually referring to the dunk contest.

lol 😱 oh...

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
You're comparing the Argentinian team to by far the worst player on the Dream Team. If you mean by "hard time" that the Dream Team would have smashed them by 30, then yeah the Dream Team would have had a hard time with them.

I'm comparing the argenenian team to the worst player on a DREAM TEAM to highlight the fact that international players are much better now than they were in 1992.

30 points... so you think the argentenian team of 2004 is only very slightly better than the croatian team of 1992 who lost by 33 points, logically. Not sure that's a reasonable statement.

 

[trmiv]

Remember guys like Stockton, Magic, Kevin Johnson, Tiny Archibald etc all played in a league that allowed hand checking, and much more physical defense on perimeter players, a much different league than the one Nash is playing in now. In today's NBA you can't touch a player on the perimeter, giving them much much more room to operate. Watch some videos of the 80's and even the 90's and look at how much easier it was to defend quick guards when hand checking was allowed. Now guards can penetrate into the lane at will without much resistance from defenders. If the guys I listed would have played against the same kind of defense, their stats would be even more elevated than they ended up with.

This isn't a knock on Nash, because he is a great player, but it is hard to compare players from different generations because of the difference in the game. I would have loved to see what some of the great guards of the past could do in a league where you can't put your hands on people on the perimeter.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: trmiv
Remember guys like Stockton, Magic, Kevin Johnson, Tiny Archibald etc all played in a league that allowed hand checking, and much more physical defense on perimeter players, a much different league than the one Nash is playing in now. In today's NBA you can't touch a player on the perimeter, giving them much much more room to operate. Watch some videos of the 80's and even the 90's and look at how much easier it was to defend quick guards when hand checking was allowed. Now guards can penetrate into the lane at will without much resistance from defenders. If the guys I listed would have played against the same kind of defense, their stats would be even more elevated than they ended up with.

This isn't a knock on Nash, because he is a great player, but it is hard to compare players from different generations because of the difference in the game. I would have loved to see what some of the great guards of the past could do in a league where you can't put your hands on people on the perimeter.

Well, these days you don't have to be playing man to man, so I'd say it's equally easy to defend speedy players since you can roam around on the court pretty much willy nilly. Illegal defense was really lame... you basically couldn't wander away from your guy unless you immediately doubled teamed someone, and you couldn't double team a guy without the ball.

Hand checking was always a weird one... they basically selectively enforced it, and that is why they cracked down on it, IMO. That was only a few years ago anyway.

 

[newnameman]

Isiah Thomas > *

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Gibson486

Originally posted by: Lorax
stockton would be better:

1. the nba made rule changes which benefit the offense.
2. the suns run a system which inflates stats.

but nash is still pretty good.

I am not a basketball fan, but how does a team inflate stats?

Not the team, the style. They are a "Run N' Gun" team. Get lots of points off of fast breaks. Easier to get assists in that type of game.

Nobody can do the pick and roll like Stockton and Malone. Stockton wasnt the scorer Nash is, in every other category he is better I believe.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Lorax
stockton would be better:

1. the nba made rule changes which benefit the offense.
2. the suns run a system which inflates stats.

but nash is still pretty good.

Actually scoring is down from when stockton played, try again. Also, the NBA allowed zone defenses, which is not a benefit to the offense.

They also shrank the 3 point line, which I think is BS. The fact is, the league has made changes to make the game a higher scoring game. Thats a fact, one that you cant deny.

 

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: newnameman
Isiah Thomas > *

Can't believe I left him off my list above. Him as well without the hand checking. Although I'm biased, I think Magic was better. 😀

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Lorax
stockton would be better:

1. the nba made rule changes which benefit the offense.
2. the suns run a system which inflates stats.

but nash is still pretty good.

Actually scoring is down from when stockton played, try again. Also, the NBA allowed zone defenses, which is not a benefit to the offense.

They also shrank the 3 point line, which I think is BS. The fact is, the league has made changes to make the game a higher scoring game. Thats a fact, one that you cant deny.

They put the 3 point line back to its original position in 1998 I thought...??