GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
- 25,284
- 1,998
- 126
Originally posted by: jersiq
Great, then we could all be arrogant Atheists
No, then the Flying Spaghetti Monster will take his rightful place as the noodly master of all mankind.
No, then the Flying Spaghetti Monster will take his rightful place as the noodly master of all mankind.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Originally posted by: zinfamous
worked for CS Lewis, too
It also worked for Lee Strobel, an atheist who decided to investigate on his own after his wife decided to convert to Christianity - to him, that was one of the most horrible things that could happen. He decided to try to disprove the existence of Christ so he could explain to his wife how silly/misguided her faith was. His subsequent investigations and interviews caused him to GAIN faith that he didn't have before.
He went on to write several books, including The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith.
Translation: he realized there was money to be made in the biz
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Originally posted by: jersiq
Great, then we could all be arrogant Atheists
No, then the Flying Spaghetti Monster will take his rightful place as the noodly master of all mankind.
And my assertion is even further asserted for me.
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
- 25,284
- 1,998
- 126
Originally posted by: jersiq
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Originally posted by: jersiq
Great, then we could all be arrogant Atheists
No, then the Flying Spaghetti Monster will take his rightful place as the noodly master of all mankind.
And my assertion is even further asserted for me.
Too bad your language skills didn't come along for the ride.
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Originally posted by: jersiq
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Originally posted by: jersiq
Great, then we could all be arrogant Atheists
No, then the Flying Spaghetti Monster will take his rightful place as the noodly master of all mankind.
And my assertion is even further asserted for me.
Too bad your language skills didn't come along for the ride.
Too bad you are so intelligent that you cannot understand a purposefully written grammatical error. Look at my other posts champ, and tell me if I tend to write with poor grammar.
Perhaps I was stooping to the same level of your "absurd" statement?
Nocturnal
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2002
- 18,927
- 0
- 76
May I ask, why does God no longer "inspire" people to write more about him or what he's about? I am a firm believer in God but I would like to know why he hasn't shown his face in this day and age? Why hasn't he performed any miracles? Why doesn't he inspire people to write more about him today?
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2007
- 11,925
- 2
- 0
NikolaeVarius
Lifer
- Oct 25, 2006
- 11,036
- 11
- 91
Ive always had a question that stumps religious minds and they never have a rebuttal. Most Christians I have met agree that babies go to heaven automatically when they die based on "Age of Accountability". This being true, it is not impossible for one person or group of people to literally kill every newborn baby from here to the end of time, eventually wiping out humanity. This essentially would result in every person on earth starting from the first baby killed would all be in heaven and the killer or killers would be sent to Hell.
That being said. The killer is actually playing God and sends everyone to heaven even would God himself could not. This would make that killer more powerful than God correct? Because in the end that is where we all want to go right?
This is a serious question that I would like Kevin to answer and do not twist the words around or dance your way around it with multiple questions.
That being said. The killer is actually playing God and sends everyone to heaven even would God himself could not. This would make that killer more powerful than God correct? Because in the end that is where we all want to go right?
This is a serious question that I would like Kevin to answer and do not twist the words around or dance your way around it with multiple questions.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,904
- 31,430
- 146
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Originally posted by: zinfamous
worked for CS Lewis, too
It also worked for Lee Strobel, an atheist who decided to investigate on his own after his wife decided to convert to Christianity - to him, that was one of the most horrible things that could happen. He decided to try to disprove the existence of Christ so he could explain to his wife how silly/misguided her faith was. His subsequent investigations and interviews caused him to GAIN faith that he didn't have before.
He went on to write several books, including The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith.
Translation: he realized there was money to be made in the biz
:thumbsup:
ryanmw2002
You present a fun problem. The answer I'd give is that: 1) As a Christ-follower, I do not accept this "Age of Accountability" you refer to as credible. I understand what you mean by it, and respect Christians who believe this doctrine, but I believe there is room to disagree on the issue. Also, there are Christians whom I respect which would disagree even more to the "Age of Accountability" argument.
But, to not "dance around" your question as you are implying Kevin is doing, (which, if that is his prerogative does he have any less right to do so than you do to imply this?) I'll theorize for you an answer assuming that I would believe in "Age of Accountability"... Because, after all, questions like this don't seem to be seeking truth, they seem to be seeking to satisfy one's own desire to be right. And if that's the case, I'd like nothing more than to turn your question into one of truth than of a value judgment to make you or me feel good about ourselves.
Peace,
john
You present a fun problem. The answer I'd give is that: 1) As a Christ-follower, I do not accept this "Age of Accountability" you refer to as credible. I understand what you mean by it, and respect Christians who believe this doctrine, but I believe there is room to disagree on the issue. Also, there are Christians whom I respect which would disagree even more to the "Age of Accountability" argument.
But, to not "dance around" your question as you are implying Kevin is doing, (which, if that is his prerogative does he have any less right to do so than you do to imply this?) I'll theorize for you an answer assuming that I would believe in "Age of Accountability"... Because, after all, questions like this don't seem to be seeking truth, they seem to be seeking to satisfy one's own desire to be right. And if that's the case, I'd like nothing more than to turn your question into one of truth than of a value judgment to make you or me feel good about ourselves.
So up to here, I see where you are going. But this claim is based on a lot of assumption about Christianity. First, not all Christians believe that all killers are going to be sent to Hell. That's an easy enough concept to grasp I think, but it often is completely ignored: Christianity is not an "acts" or "deeds" based religion. That is to say, how "good" one is does not merit there "salvation" or being sent to heaven. (I realize I used a lot of scare quotes there, they were intentional.) In other words, most adherents to Christian faith (cf. Christian religion) would claim they are saved by grace and not works.
I am very empathetic to why you think this, and it is because of my understanding of why you think this that I can say this statement is the least logical of all; an illustration before the explanation: If I gather a bunch of my friends on a bridge and systematically push them off, and they all fall to their deaths, what is scientific cause of their death? Well it wasn't me, it was probably a combination of crushing of their body/asphyxiation, the result of gravity acting upon their bodies. I, being the pusher, participated in a system which already exists and defines what happens based on the input I give it. In a corrected understanding of your statement, the killer is the person pushing the people off the bridge, God is the gravity, or the law to put it another way.
Neat supposition, but it is just that, something that is supposed. I don't see any reason for your claim to be valid. Another perspective, if we are going to acknowledge there is a God, I would imagine God would be more powerful that a simple logical argument, otherwise God really wouldn't be God in the way we normally conceptualize God.
I hope this is satisfactory "answer" to your "question". If not, feel free to let me know why it isn't. Honestly though, I don't plan on discoursing on your question anymore as it's a fairly weak logical argument.
Peace,
john
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Originally posted by: zinfamous
worked for CS Lewis, too
It also worked for Lee Strobel, an atheist who decided to investigate on his own after his wife decided to convert to Christianity - to him, that was one of the most horrible things that could happen. He decided to try to disprove the existence of Christ so he could explain to his wife how silly/misguided her faith was. His subsequent investigations and interviews caused him to GAIN faith that he didn't have before.
He went on to write several books, including The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith.
Translation: he realized there was money to be made in the biz
:thumbsup:
What doctrine of Christianity claims that Christians should live abject and in poverty, never seeking to earn compensation for their work? Unless you are willing to concede that everyone who ever wrote a book was tainted by the knowledge they would receive money for it (which is a big claim to make) then your jab is very weak and actually quite problematic for the objectivity of non-Christian writers alike.
Peace
john
If it matters, I respect this question a lot because it is an honest question of understanding that doesn't seek to marginalize anybody or any ideas.
I also don't think there is a concise answer to the question. I think a discussion about this though would prove much more useful and humane than many of the others that get thrown out there.
For what it is worth, my opinion on the matter is that God does still inspire people, just not in the same ways as we used to see. I believe in the present day authority of the Holy Spirit, being 1 of the 3 persons of God. And I believe there are many people who write about Him today, but don't believe they have been given the same authority as the early writers and collaborators of what we call the Bible. I see this as part of God's divine intent, and take it as faith that how we understand God based on previous writings is supposed to be different than how we understand God based on contemporary writings. After all, Jesus did say that it was a perverse and wicked generation that sought signs and miracles of who he was. (An immediate response to the doubters (like I once was) who might claim that this is very convenient for Jesus to claim: so what? Does it negate a systematic understanding or theology of the rest of the Bible? I don't think so. It might for you, and if it does I'd entertain a discussion as towards why... But if that's who Jesus was and what He said, who am I to argue, once I believe there was a man named Jesus who lived (which very few scholars on any "side" would argue to be false, feel free to ask me for my sources on this). Instead, I'm free'd to ask the classic question posed by C.S. Lewis, if there was a man named Jesus, then was he a liar? a lunatic? or Lord? I think claims could be made for either 3 of those options (or maybe more) but I feel like aside from faith, the most evidence points towards Lord.) An ultimately, in a similar vein, there is the argument that what got recorded as Jesus's words became corrupted, etc. Again, there is a lot of manuscript evidence that points to the gospels and many of the letters which make up the New Testament as being some of the most verifiable and integral writings we have before the advent of the printing press (feel free to ask my sources on this, I'll point to the evidence (again not fact) but evidence provided by people like Lee Strobel, or C.S. Lewis, or many others that have written on the topic, including some secular writers).
Peace,
John
If Aria Giovanni appears at my doorstep randomly and wants to hang out in the hot tub then I might believe that Jesus has returned.
It doesn't matter if he somehow made the oceans rise into the sky or suddenly gave everyone the gift of enlightenment, I still wouldn't believe in an all-powerful being, and I most certainly wouldn't start worshiping him. I'd probably think "wow, that's a pretty advanced life-form, aren't we lucky to meet him and befriend him", maybe I'd look up to him, even. But worship is something I will never do, for anyone or anything.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a "perfect all-powerful being".
Edit: Besides, it doesn't matter because every part of the bible is about as factual as scientology is.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a "perfect all-powerful being".
Edit: Besides, it doesn't matter because every part of the bible is about as factual as scientology is.
You're chastising me for NOT believing something. I'm not actively participating in this hallucination, that's totally different from BELIEVING there is no god.
You cannot prove the existence of a highest power, it's logically impossible. So I don't need to be believing in crap that has absolutely no evidence what-so-ever.
And like I said, if a being were to present itself to us in such a grand way, it very well could be a more evolved creature than our-selfs. It doesn't have to be an all powerful infallible alpha/omega. Hell, even if this being were to be "perfect" in our plane of existence, that doesn't mean it's invincible or perfect someplace else.
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