So I won a 7800GS on eBay

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: darkdemyze

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: darkdemyze

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
you buy a 7800gs and your going to water cool it wouldn't it be cheaper just go PCIE

not the point

So, what is the point?

idk just my guess but, maybe to find out the performance of a watercooled 7800GS?

Let me spell it out for you...

What is the point of determining the performance of a watercooled 7800GS when their are already cards that are cheaper that will perform better than this 7800GS no matter what you do to it? Of course, if the OP says, "cuz it's fun", than that's certainly a good enough reason, but it still doesn't make it very useful.

At any rate, it doesn't matter how useful it is as I personally am interested in seeing the results of watercooling an AGP 7-series card. Just cause you don't see the point, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Obviously, I'm interested too, or I wouldn't keep coming back to this thread. Even more interesting would be this rig compared to a similarly priced PCI-E rig, but I think that's a bit out of scope for the OP's project.

 

[1Dark1Sharigan1]

lol, the 7900GT is not "mid range" by any means . . . midrange would be 7600GT/X1800GTO, etc.

 

[Bateluer]

Quick update. I'm still on track to install the Tidewater on Saturday, but I wanted to add something about the stock cooler. Its noisier than the Vantec cooler on my old 6800GT and noisier than its original Gainward GS cooler. The BFG cooler can be heard over all the other devices in my system.

 

[Topweasel]

I don't want to thread crap, and I am not saying that their is any inherent problem with wanting to try this 7800GS out. I also have been a big proponent of making the switch to PCIe. So now that you know my intentions I just thought for you or anyone else making this decision in the future, that their is an alternative that doesn't require CPU or memory to be replaced only Mobo.

MSI 915GM Speedster-FA4R Socket 478

It is a little more exspensive then it should be and it is a Micro ATX mobo, but with that said their is little need nowadays outside SLI for more then one PCI slots and therefore little need for a full ATX mobo.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Topweasel
I don't want to thread crap, and I am not saying that their is any inherent problem with wanting to try this 7800GS out. I also have been a big proponent of making the switch to PCIe. So now that you know my intentions I just thought for you or anyone else making this decision in the future, that their is an alternative that doesn't require CPU or memory to be replaced only Mobo.

MSI 915GM Speedster-FA4R Socket 478

It is a little more exspensive then it should be and it is a Micro ATX mobo, but with that said their is little need nowadays outside SLI for more then one PCI slots and therefore little need for a full ATX mobo.

Not a bad board for certain people. But, lets stay on the topic of water cooling video cards.

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: nitromullet


Sure it's valid... You can sell your AGP stuff to help fund the purchase of a PCIe rig. That's what I did, and that's what the guy who sold the OP his 7800GS did... Creativitiy can work in more ways that slapping watercooling on an overpriced AGP card in a losing attempt to make it keep up with current hardware.

The OP has

Intel P4 3400MHz
Asus P4P800 Deluxe

You can still get pretty decent money for a P4 3.4 and a P4P800 Dlx

exact combo sold on ebay for $330

That is probably a bit higher than what I would expect, but even at $250ish plus the money spent on the 7800GS and Tidewater would be a really good start on a 7900GT and a Socket 939 motherboard and processor. Of course, I still don't know what the OP paid for his 7800GT, but the low end on ebay is around $250. I think I might have seen one for $235. If you look at that, plus the cost of the Tidewater, and the money you could sell the current gear for, you have about $600 to work with, which is plenty for a $300 7900GT, $100 mobo, and a $200 Athlon64 cpu. This rig would be faster and more upgradeable than the OP's current set up.

Sorry to the OP, I'm not knocking what you're doing. I just get a bit touchy when someone writes me off as stupid when they themselves simply haven't looked into all the options.

Okay, need to clarify a few things.

1) The eBayer who sold the 7800GS didn't use the card. It was a brand new card and arrived in a sealed retail box.

2) I don't want a s939 system. When I build a system, I want the basic parts to last a good while. I originally built a P4 2.4C, P4P800 Deluxe, 1GB of RAM, and a 9600 Pro. That was in July 2003. Today, its a P4 3.4E, P4P800 Deluxe, 2GB of RAM, and a 7800GS. If I sold this setup and bought a s939 system, I would effectively be screwing myself over in the long run. Socket 939's fastest CPU is an FX-60, a screaming fast CPU to be sure, but also 1000+ USD. And, its the end of the line for a s939 mobo. A few short months after AM2 debut, the FX-60 will be eclipsed by the equally expensive FX-62, as well as a full complement of A64X2 chips which will deliver more performance than their s939 counterparts at an equal or lower price point. As I said, I like to keep core parts for a while, at least a year. I could buy a s939 and A64 4000 or X2 4400 now, then sell it only 3 or 4 months after I bought it for the much faster AM2 chips. Not worth the hassle.

3) A 200 dollar A64 wouldn't be much worth the time either. For single core chips, it'd have to be a 3700 or 4000 and for dual core it'd have to be one of the 1MB L2 cache X2s, likely a 4400. Only one that comes close to 200 is the 3700, which is only a single core CPU and I definitely want a dual core.

4) 100 dollar mobo? Uh, no. The s939 mobo I want, the Asus A8N-SLI Premium, is a bit more than 100. 7900GT? Hell no! I don't buy midrange. I buy high end. I like to play my games at max settings, with AA, at my 2005FPWs native res. The 7900GT can't do that in a lot of titles out right now, and certainly won't be able to do it on future titles.

5) The Tidewater's univeral design will allow it to be used all almost all V/GPUs, so its a part that will carry over the the G80 or R580+ parts when they arrive.

6) I have a co-worker who is interested in buying my current system at the end of July. Since he's a good friend and has helped me on numerous occasion, I'll be practically giving this setup away, minus the HDDs, DVD-ROMs, and Tidewater.

7) Relating to point 6, I'd also need a new case and PSU, further adding to the cost.

Lastly, I fully intend to do a complete overhaul in August, after the AM2 platform has debuted and stabilized a little. New case, PSU, vidcard, sound card, the works. Since I want to use water cooling on the CPU and video card in that system as well, I need to get a little experience with watercooling now. I live in the valley of the sun, the summer heat makes most OCs impossible. Unless you want a 400 USD electric bill 9 months out of the year.

And my final point, its fun to play with new hardware, regardless of what it is.


Editted for easier reading.

:thumbsup: for you

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

4) 100 dollar mobo? Uh, no. The s939 mobo I want, the Asus A8N-SLI Premium, is a bit more than 100.

Why? Because you are a brand name wh*re? What's so speical about A8N-SLI? Any $100 S939 A64 motherboard will be better than your P4 motherboard since it'll have better onboard sound, more SATA connectors and an all valuable PCIe slot

7900GT? Hell no! I don't buy midrange. I buy high end. I like to play my games at max settings, with AA, at my 2005FPWs native res. The 7900GT can't do that in a lot of titles out right now, and certainly won't be able to do it on future titles.

I wouldn't consider 7900GT as midrange. Plus it can overclock to 7800GTX 512mb performance levels which 2x faster than 16 pipeline 7800GS. Plus you are contradicting yourself. Buying top of the line (in this case for AGP) gets you a card with 8 less pipelines and clocked at 375 vs. 450 for 7900GT. Everything is relative. It can play most games at 1600x1200.

5) The Tidewater's univeral design will allow it to be used all almost all V/GPUs, so its a part that will carry over the the G80 or R580+ parts when they arrive.

Fair enough. But you could have bought tidewater with a PCIe graphics card too. PLus your claims of 7800GS 375 16 pipe outperforming 6800GT 350mhz 16 pipe by 50% are questionable (just a little). Real world performance will put it at X850XT levels or roughly 20%-30% faster at best.

Lastly, I fully intend to do a complete overhaul in August, after the AM2 platform has debuted and stabilized a little. New case, PSU, vidcard, sound card, the works.

Probably makes a lot more sense to get $241 2.13ghz Conroe and overclock since AM2 is unlikely to have anything remotely close to outperform it, while costing more to begin wtih.

Since I want to use water cooling on the CPU and video card in that system as well, I need to get a little experience with watercooling now.

Tidewater is preassembled water cooled part. It'll be like connecting a heatsink to a graphics card. You already know how to do that

And my final point, its fun to play with new hardware, regardless of what it is.

Finally, the only point that can't be argued against. :beer:

Have fun overclocking!

 

[Bateluer]

Alright, I installed the Tidewater, and ran into a few snags, which I will delve into right now.

1) While the manual is very good, full color pictures and clear instructions, it only covers generic Nvidia and ATI cards. Those generic cards seem to be 6800GT/Ultras and, I think Radeon X800s of some sort. Following the Nvidia instructions, I noticed that the screws designed for the Nvidia PCB were too large to fit those around the GPU.

Using the screws intended for the ATI PCBs allowed me to get them installed and get the water block installed successfully.

2) The second snag I hit wasn't related to the Tidewater, rather the position of the RAM on the video card. Its 4 chips, 64MB each. Two are below the GPU and two are between the GPU and the molex power connector on the edge of the card. In order to fit the rather large ramsinks I purchased, I had to bend the fins on those between the GPU and power connector. However, the ramsinks proved too heavy for the sticky, cheap, thermal pads on their bottoms. They fell off, repeatedly. Nothing I could do would allow them to stick. This required a run to BB, Circuit City, and finally, Fry's; In order of distance from my apartment. None of them had any sort of thermal glue or epoxy to better attach the RAM sinks. However, BB did had some more generic, aluminum ramsinks, manufactured by BFG, which had much better thermal glue. They came in a variety pack containing several sizes. I installed the largest sinks that would fit, resulting in about a cm of overhang from the memory chips. Thats 1cm counting both ends, not 1cm on each side. These stuck very well.

3) The last snag I hit was the my puny mid-tower case and its full bays proved too small to house the Tidewater entirely inside the case. The SATA connectors from my twin 300GB SATA drives prevented it. As a result, its now residing outside the case. Overall, this is probably better for water flow and airflow to the fan on the radiator.

Upon initial bootup to a useable XP desktop, the 7800GS was running at 36*C. In the time I've taken to type this, its slowly crept up to 42*C. Although cool, I was expecting more out of this cooler at idle temps. I'm going to fire up 3D Mark 2006 and get some load temps momentarily.

 

[Bateluer]

3D Mark 2006 is currently running on my desktop. Its been running for about 15min now, looping the game tests. The GPU temp has not risen over 50*C. Not too shabby, the stock cooler would have hit 65 by now.

Edit - Stopped looping at 25 minutes. Temp hit 51C once, then dropped back down to 50 and stayed there. Respectable.

Tomorrow will mark the real fun, OCing the card.

I'd also like to respond to a few of RussianSensation's comments.

-Yes, I buy from people I trust. I have never, ever, encountered a single problem with Asus boards. Thats 5 Asus boards I've owned to date, and three that I've put in systems I've built for other people. No issues related to the motherboard.

-The 7900GT is considered the upper midrange part of Nvidia's product positioning. The 7900GTX is their high end part. The lines have blurred recently as both ATI and Nvidia release cards at MSRPs from 49 to 599, in 20 dollar increments.

-You can see the 7800GS outperforming 6800Us at the links below.
BF2
FarCry
FarCry with HDR

-Since Conroe won't actually be launched until 6 months after AM2 launches, all information regarding its pricing is speculative. Will they even make a 2.13Ghz conroe? Maybe, maybe not.

Once AM2 is fully unveiled, I'll be looking at its performance in depth. If its subpar, then I'll likely go with a solid, nonSLI Asus mobo, a PCIe vidcard, and the rest of my overhaul plans. That should hold me until Conroe or AMD launches 65nm A64X2s.

 

[Bateluer]

Running the card at 450/1250 right now, completes 3DMark 2k6 with a total score of 3246. Gonna bump it up to what coolbits says is the optimum core clock and run another loop. Coolbits says 470/1380 is optimum, but I am reluctant the OC the ram with the smaller aluminum ramsinks. The DDR3 RAM on the 6800GT ran pretty toasty.

Oh, the highest temp the card has seen thus far is 51*C, usually 50*C. I am sure if I had better airflow around the Tidewater, the temps would drop even more. Perhaps I should move the case to the opposite side of my desk and out of its alcove?

 

[Bateluer]

The 7800GS at 475/1250 complete 3Dmark2k6 with a total of 3362, far lower than a PCIe card. However, the GPU core never gets above 51C with the Tidewater, not too shabby.

The two main downsides to the Tidewater seem to be the size of the radiator and the fact that it offers no way to cool the RAM. Perhaps, if the hoses were longer, the radiator could be mounted outside the case, but that would probably require a more powerful pump to get the same level of cooling, which would in turn make the Tidewater even large to accomodate the larger pump.

Combined with my previous notes, you can see that the Tidewater is a fairly effective cooling solution, even with its flaws. I'll have some more pictures to upload later, for those that want to see.

And lastly, think it'd look too silly or cause problems if I were to attach another RAM sink to the ramsinks on the card ram already? Not entirely sure how that would effect cooling, and I have no way to measure the temp of the RAM. I would think that the heat would pass to the second sink in the same manner as it leaves the chip to the first sink.

 

[ElFenix]

:thumbsup:


a note: the thermal tape on ram sinks tends to require time to cure, and so gets stickier the longer it is on. chances are, if you'd have applied the ramsinks and let them sit on the card overnight, they wouldn't be falling off the next morning.

 

[Bateluer]

Hmm, the sinks that kept falling off have been exposed to the air for a while now, barely sticky at all anymore. I only have three left that still have the tape covering the sticky pads.

Think sticking a ramsink on top of a ramsink is idiotic? Or would it help by providing more surface area?