So I went to a chiropractor hehe

[Xyo II]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I went to a chiropractor a number of years ago when I had a muscle spasm in my lower back. I couldn't even stand up straight, getting in and out of my car was excrutiatingly painful and even rolling over in bed at night hurt. This went on for about 3-4 days until I went to see a friend's Dad who is a chiropractor. He took x-rays and then cracked my back and neck and I swear I felt 50% better after that one visit. A couple more visits and I was almost 100%.

He also advised that I do some exercises to strengthen my lower back to prevent this happening again. I haven't had a problem with my lower back since then.

Say what you want but I am a believer. A traditional method of treating a muscle spasm is to heat it, take muscle relaxers and lay around like a slug for a month. I was back to normal within a week with no drugs. :thumbsup:

After working out for 2 hours I had several martial arts classes, and then I took about an hour for throwing knives and stars, and I guess I stretched the hell out of a ligament on my shoulder blade. It burned like hell, and I could pop it out But then I went to a chiropracter and after 2 appointments it felt fine, definitely worth the visit. I haven't had a problem with my shoulder blade since.

 

[TreyRandom]

I had always had a negative opinion about chiropractors throughout my childhood. My mom would go all the time because of her bad back, and she'd walk out of the chiropractor's office complaining about hurting just as bad as it was when she walked in. She never improved, and so I generalized that all chiropractic docs were quacks.

In my late 20s, I started having neck problems. I asked for chiropractic recommendations from a few people, and went to one of the docs they recommended. After X-rays, I told the doc about my neck problems, and he begins to check my spine. While feeling my lower back, he asked me if I had been experiencing any intestinal problems. Strangely enough, I had, for quite a long time. I had been diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS), which basically means, "Yeah, we know you've got intestinal problems, but we have no frickin clue what's causing it". He told me that my lower back was also out of alignment, in an area that is related to intestinal nerves. I told him that I had never had pain in my lower back, but he told me that there aren't any pain endings in the particular location that was out of alignment. So he performed several adjustments and I went home.

After ONE adjustment, it was like flipping a light switch. My intestinal problems disappeared almost overnight. Not to mention that my neck felt much better.

All that said, one adjustment isn't enough. Adjustments enable your spine to be placed into the correct position, but if your spine has been out of alignment for a while, the muscles will tend to push the spine right back out of position. The longer your spine stays adjusted, the longer your muscles will "remember" their correct positions. Thus, that's why chiropractors suggest coming several times within a short period of time. After I could finally afford to go as often as I needed to, I went 3 times a week for a month, then 2 times a week for a month, then once a week for a month... and so on. Nowadays, I feel wonderful, and I stay adjusted for long periods of time. I go for an adjustment probably 3 or 4 times a year, usually whenever my neck starts feeling tight or I start having belly problems.

I'd advise the same thing that others in the thread have advised - get recommendations. There are definitely bad chiropractors out there, but I can say definitively that there are some good ones too. Best of luck!

EDIT for Cliffs:
1. Thought chiropractors were quacks
2. Developed neck problems
3. Went to see chiropractor
4. Chiropractor found and corrected a long-time intestinal problem (as well as the neck problem)
5. Satisfaction!

 

[d3n]

I took my infant daughter to a chiropractor. She has scoliosis. He wouldn?t touch her without some x-rays first. Not unusually since most good ones won?t accept a new patient without a set of x-rays. Normally, kids with scoliosis get rapidly worse to the point that rods need to be inserted and ribs start to fuse. Not only did it not get worse but we showed a 5 degree improvement in the curve every month.

All that most doctors knew how to do was cut on her. They were amazed at her improvement with the chiropractic treatment. One doctor practically recoiled when we mentioned that we thought the chiropractic treatment was the reason. We told the guy off for just wanting to get into the OR to try a new surgery procedure.

After hearing many stories I would be very hesitatnt to do any type of surgery on the back or most other joints. Most of the time it seems to cause nothing but problems.

:thumbsup: to professional chiropractors

 

[Syringer]

Did you sleep on a wooden bed the night of?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
I had always had a negative opinion about chiropractors throughout my childhood. My mom would go all the time because of her bad back, and she'd walk out of the chiropractor's office complaining about hurting just as bad as it was when she walked in. She never improved, and so I generalized that all chiropractic docs were quacks.

In my late 20s, I started having neck problems. I asked for chiropractic recommendations from a few people, and went to one of the docs they recommended. After X-rays, I told the doc about my neck problems, and he begins to check my spine. While feeling my lower back, he asked me if I had been experiencing any intestinal problems. Strangely enough, I had, for quite a long time. I had been diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS), which basically means, "Yeah, we know you've got intestinal problems, but we have no frickin clue what's causing it". He told me that my lower back was also out of alignment, in an area that is related to intestinal nerves. I told him that I had never had pain in my lower back, but he told me that there aren't any pain endings in the particular location that was out of alignment. So he performed several adjustments and I went home.

After ONE adjustment, it was like flipping a light switch. My intestinal problems disappeared almost overnight. Not to mention that my neck felt much better.

All that said, one adjustment isn't enough. Adjustments enable your spine to be placed into the correct position, but if your spine has been out of alignment for a while, the muscles will tend to push the spine right back out of position. The longer your spine stays adjusted, the longer your muscles will "remember" their correct positions. Thus, that's why chiropractors suggest coming several times within a short period of time. After I could finally afford to go as often as I needed to, I went 3 times a week for a month, then 2 times a week for a month, then once a week for a month... and so on. Nowadays, I feel wonderful, and I stay adjusted for long periods of time. I go for an adjustment probably 3 or 4 times a year, usually whenever my neck starts feeling tight or I start having belly problems.

I'd advise the same thing that others in the thread have advised - get recommendations. There are definitely bad chiropractors out there, but I can say definitively that there are some good ones too. Best of luck!

EDIT for Cliffs:
1. Thought chiropractors were quacks
2. Developed neck problems
3. Went to see chiropractor
4. Chiropractor found and corrected a long-time intestinal problem (as well as the neck problem)
5. Satisfaction!

right on.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: d3n
I took my infant daughter to a chiropractor. She has scoliosis. He wouldn?t touch her without some x-rays first. Not unusually since most good ones won?t accept a new patient without a set of x-rays. Normally, kids with scoliosis get rapidly worse to the point that rods need to be inserted and ribs start to fuse. Not only did it not get worse but we showed a 5 degree improvement in the curve every month.

All that most doctors knew how to do was cut on her. They were amazed at her improvement with the chiropractic treatment. One doctor practically recoiled when we mentioned that we thought the chiropractic treatment was the reason. We told the guy off for just wanting to get into the OR to try a new surgery procedure.

After hearing many stories I would be very hesitatnt to do any type of surgery on the back or most other joints. Most of the time it seems to cause nothing but problems.

:thumbsup: to professional chiropractors

it's not his fault... for YEARS, the american medical association spread propaganda to contain and eliminate chiropractic. he probably had been taught, just like many other older medical doctors out there, that chiropractors were bad and that chiropractic is a cult or something ridiculous like that. most reputable med schools don't teach that anymore. some even teach that they should refer out to chiropractors for certain issues rather than be arrogant and think they can fix the problem.

 

[BD2003]

depends on the infection... ear infections or sinus infections, yeah. but not skin abscesses or anything (at least, i don't believe it... they teach you that it's possible (which it is), but i've yet to see it).

How on earth is adjusting the spine going to remove foreign organisms from your ears or sinuses?

It's things like this that chiropractors get their reputation for being quacks. I can most definitely see how having a large part of your CNS out of wack can lead to all sorts of problems. But that doesnt mean that any disease that *could* be caused by misalignment of the CNS actually *is.*

as for migraines, it's one of the quickest and safest ways to get rid of migraines. 9/10 of migraine headaches are cervicogenic headaches anyways. depending on how the muscles are pulling on the bones in your neck and head based on the nerves coming out of the intervertebral foramina, you can get some pretty serious headaches. also, there's an unnamed piece of duramater that connects to the anterior aspect of the posterior arch of c1 and rectus capitus posterior minor which contributes significantly to migraine headaches. if c1 is out, it will pull on the duramater bridge which will pull on the duramater around your brain which will manifest itself in increased cranial pressure and visceral symptoms (like a migraine).

So there is a factor in the spinal cord that can lead to/exacerbate migraines. That doesnt mean all, or even most migraines can be fixed by a chiropractor.

they found this duramater bridge eight years ago at johns hopkins and it was published about in the nejm. chiropractic was mentioned as the main healthcare outlet to help sufferers.

And I wouldnt question that treatments legitimacy, but it only legitimizes chiropractors in that one narrow area. They position themselves as an alternative to "normal doctors", as if it's their cure or the doctor's alternative cure. When in reality, sometimes its going to help, and sometimes, you really do need surgery or *cough* antibiotics.

as for your treatment, op, the reason why your doc gave you ultrasound and massage was because your muscles are too fired up for him to give you any kind of proper adjustment. if he tried, it would have just hurt you and he wouldn't have gotten anything to move into place because the muscles are so fired up. there's something that happens with muscles and nerves where the nerve tells the muscle to fire a certain way and the muscle's internal memory wants to tell the brain how it wants to act... the signal goes back to the cord and a reflex occurs within the interneurons. so, instead of sending the signal back to the brain, it goes right back to the muscle, keeping it fired up. so, the nerve is telling it to lock up, essentially. in order to remove that afferent signal, you need to fix the problem with the muscles first, so they won't keep themselves locked up. whenever they're not locked up anymore, then you can get adjusted so the nerves won't tell your muscles to fire up like they were doing before, which would pull the bones out of place, which would only increase the afferentation.

I'm going to assume you purposefully simplified what you were saying, and that you dont actually believe that a muscle has "internal memory", and you actually do know what a spindle is.

Your spine is more nerve than bone. Your autonomic nervous system is essentially contained within it. I'd really like to believe there is more science to it than the "spine is out of alignment". That chiropractors actually know the reason why the SNS and PNS are firing off improperly, which could certainly cause gastrointestinal symptoms. Otherwise, I'd still hesitate to call it any type of medicine...more like modernized witch doctory.

Sure, it could still work in the end, but I'm not putting my body under the care of anyone that doesn't know *why* it works.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I went to a chiropractor a number of years ago when I had a muscle spasm in my lower back. I couldn't even stand up straight, getting in and out of my car was excrutiatingly painful and even rolling over in bed at night hurt. This went on for about 3-4 days until I went to see a friend's Dad who is a chiropractor. He took x-rays and then cracked my back and neck and I swear I felt 50% better after that one visit. A couple more visits and I was almost 100%.

He also advised that I do some exercises to strengthen my lower back to prevent this happening again. I haven't had a problem with my lower back since then.

Say what you want but I am a believer. A traditional method of treating a muscle spasm is to heat it, take muscle relaxers and lay around like a slug for a month. I was back to normal within a week with no drugs. :thumbsup:

I was 'sceptical' about seeing a Chiropractor also.

I saw one and he turned out to be very good. He was interested in fixing me and not giving me BS. He didn't claim some crazy stuff that some other chiro's did. He answered all my questions and after a few months of treatment I was getting near to full health. I had a prolapse disc and I the most annoying shooting pain down my leg ever. I couldn't touch the floor at all. I was literally 15inches away from touching the floor, and this is from a guy who can get palms flush on the floor without any warm ups easily. I saw improvements after every treatment.

The Dr I saw offered me surgery. He was young and wanted to 'cut me up' to get his experience. But back surgery is a very bad risk for those that are hoping for a full recovery and to recover well enough to compete at sports.

But it came to a point where I wasn't seeing any more gains in improvement and my Chiro said at this point he couldn't give me any more improvements.

Also he told me to walk around for 5-10minutes after his adjustment and to not go sit back in the car!

Koing

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: KK
yeah, now tell us how many more times he recommends you coming back to him.

he'll keep 'em coming back for life.

i'm pretty sure the op said 6 times. unless the op's life will expire in 2-3 weeks, i don't think you're right (again).

of course he wouldn't tell him "come see me for life". he'll start out with 6 times because that is probably the insurance limit.

but he will have some spiel about him needed to come back in the future.

yeah, the chiropractor might say something absolutely absurd like "you might want to come in every month or so just to keep your spine in good health so you don't develop problems later on." absolutely ridiculous... you're so right. why would ANYONE want healthy vertebral discs?

while we're at it, let's harp on the dentists, too, with their "come in every couple months for your check up to make sure you don't have cavities" bullcrap. those jerks are always out for your money... and you have to keep going for life?! please... who needs healthy teeth and gums anyways?

please...chiroprators are the biggest waste of money in the health care field probably. I went to one for about 2 months and I can say the dipsh1t was a scam artist. I went in originally because I got a big pain in the neck. you know the type that you turn your head just the wrong way and it sends a sharp pain to the side of your neck and then it hurts like hell to twist your nest. Well, I went to him, he did the whole xray deal, said there was a problem, I didn't see a problem, but what the heck do I know. He had me come in a few times that week, and it finally tapered off to maybe once a week or two. Now the initial pain didn't go away any sooner than it had any of the prior times I had this happen. Eventually I just stopped going because I didn't feel any better after each session. Now I'm not saying that for some things they don't help, but more than likely they are going to rely on you coming back over and over again so they can milk your insurance for everything they're worth.

My stepmother, within the past year had gotten some letter from this guy, as she also went there, asking if my stepmother would write some type of letter stating what his character is like for some trial going on. It wouldn't doubt me if he was on trial for insurance fraud.

 

[jagec]

Chiropractors occupy a grey area between Eastern medicine and Western medicine. I'm not really sure whether they "work", but considering the sorts of reviews they tend to get...the skeptics see no improvement, the believers do...I'm not going to start giving them money every week.

Originally posted by: eits
yeah, the chiropractor might say something absolutely absurd like "you might want to come in every month or so just to keep your spine in good health so you don't develop problems later on." absolutely ridiculous... you're so right. why would ANYONE want healthy vertebral discs?

while we're at it, let's harp on the dentists, too, with their "come in every couple months for your check up to make sure you don't have cavities" bullcrap. those jerks are always out for your money... and you have to keep going for life?! please... who needs healthy teeth and gums anyways?

Funny, I'm a veritable picture of health, and I only ever enter a medical care facility once in a blue moon. Let me think...vaccinations, a handful of dentist visits, wisdom teeth, one X-ray after an accident at school...I think that's about it.

I guess I probably have some terrible disease I don't know about, huh?

Most preventative health care is something you can do yourself, for free. Do people's teeth really rot if they don't go to the dentist every couple months? Of course not...as long as they brush their teeth every day.

 

[azoomee]

Originally posted by: eits
depends on the infection... ear infections or sinus infections, yeah.

as for migraines, it's one of the quickest and safest ways to get rid of migraines. 9/10 of migraine headaches are cervicogenic headaches anyways.

Infection: Um....according to the American Heritage dictionary, an infection is: "Invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms. " SO, if this is the case, how does moving your back around stop the "invasion and multiplication" of these organisms. .

Migraines: -- curious where you got your statistics (or is this a hunch?). According to the Webster Medical Dictionary: Migraines are thought to be "precipitated by dilatation of intracranial blood vessels ". I have a hard time believing that 9/10 of all headaches diagnosed as migraines, which are typically one sided severe headaches....often associated with aura, light sensitivity, etc....and can be brought on by things such as chocolate, red wine, etc... SO, how are these diagnosed migraines aka "cervicogenic headaches" associated with the aforementioned causes and results? especially 9/10ths...

Those of you with MDs or biology degrees -- whats your take? looking for the facts not conjecture....

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: azoomee
Infection: Um....according to the American Heritage dictionary, an infection is: "Invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms. " SO, if this is the case, how does moving your back around stop the "invasion and multiplication" of these organisms. It amazes me how some people can think this.

I'm no chiropractor, but I would guess that a disruption of the central nervous system (pinched nerves so as to block the nerve impulses) could cause a degradation of your immune system - white blood cells, lymphatic system, etc. - things that fight infection.

All that said, if I had an ear infection, seeing a chiropractor wouldn't be my first thought - I'd go to an ENT doc. But then again, seeing a chiropractor didn't cross my mind when I had intestinal problems either.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: azoomee
Infection: Um....according to the American Heritage dictionary, an infection is: "Invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms. " SO, if this is the case, how does moving your back around stop the "invasion and multiplication" of these organisms. It amazes me how some people can think this.

I'm no chiropractor, but I would guess that a disruption of the central nervous system (pinched nerves so as to block the nerve impulses) could cause a degradation of your immune system - white blood cells, lymphatic system, etc. - things that fight infection.

All that said, if I had an ear infection, seeing a chiropractor wouldn't be my first thought - I'd go to an ENT doc. But then again, seeing a chiropractor didn't cross my mind when I had intestinal problems either.

If you had a pinched nerve that degraded your immune system, youd have a hell of a lot more to worry about than a simple ear infection. If that was the case, we'd have people dying left and right from infections that could have been prevented if they had their spinal cords straightened. And that just isnt happening. So I seriously doubt the entire premise.

The dilation of blood vessels can be controlled by certain spinal nerves, so there *might* be some truth to that one.

But at the same time, nerves don't fire off by just being touched, so a spinal bone pushing against one abnormally shouldnt screw up your autonomic nervous system. I only claim ignorance to the point that I don't know EVERYTHING about the CNS. But it goes against everything that I do already know. I've yet to hear a single shred of scientific, or even sensical reason for how misaligned cords are going to cause the misfiring of nerves.

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: BD2003
If you had a pinched nerve that degraded your immune system, youd have a hell of a lot more to worry about than a simple ear infection. If that was the case, we'd have people dying left and right from infections that could have been prevented if they had their spinal cords straightened. And that just isnt happening. So I seriously doubt the entire premise.

The dilation of blood vessels can be controlled by certain spinal nerves, so there *might* be some truth to that one.

Guess it depends on where and how the nerves are blocked. Again, I don't know enough about it, since I'm no chiropractor. I simply threw it out there for you to chew on. Spit it back out if you want - doesn't matter to me.

 

[Adul]

i dont like the bone cracking method. The chiro I go to uses the actuator method which is much more precise. With that said there are good and bad chiropractors. I haeva co worker who spent a year of doctors visits for back and neck pani, numbness in his toes and fingers. All the doctors did was give him more pills to pop to null the pain.

Well he finally decided to see one, but remained extremely skeptical about it. He went to see my chiropractor as he well answer any questions you ask, explain things in detail, etc etc etc. Well 3 weeks of treatment and he is feeling great. Numbmess is gone, the headaches are gone, back pain a distint memory. So he went from a skeptic to a believer. He no longer pops the pills he was prescribed and is more active once again.

Like anything doing your research and looking for people who have been to good ones are important.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: BD2003
If you had a pinched nerve that degraded your immune system, youd have a hell of a lot more to worry about than a simple ear infection. If that was the case, we'd have people dying left and right from infections that could have been prevented if they had their spinal cords straightened. And that just isnt happening. So I seriously doubt the entire premise.

The dilation of blood vessels can be controlled by certain spinal nerves, so there *might* be some truth to that one.

Guess it depends on where and how the nerves are blocked. Again, I don't know enough about it, since I'm no chiropractor. I simply threw it out there for you to chew on. Spit it back out if you want - doesn't matter to me.

Well, here's the thing...you can't really *block* a nerve, AFAIK. A nerve is a bundle of neuron fibers called axons. The electrical impulses essentially travel around the surface of those axons. You can block a blood vessel with something stuck inside it, but you can't block something flowing around a cylindrical surface. (this is of course, a vast oversimplification, since its current thats "flowing") I can theoretically imagine misaligned bones somehow screwing with the ion channels that carry the action potentials and all, but I'm really just conjecturing here. I'm sure other people know it in better detail that can explain it better.

Although, If those nerves are disconnected or otherwise damaged, you're likely to have a hell of a lot bigger problem than back or neck pain.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Hmm, OP what insurance do you have? I am interested to know what type of medical coverage would cover a chiropractor? I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield HMO.

as more and more studies are being done in chiropractic, more and more insurance companies are covering chiropractic because the research suggests that *gasp* it actually helps and more and more people want to get better.

I have united Health Care and it covers chiro and massage therapy.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: KK
please...chiroprators are the biggest waste of money in the health care field probably. I went to one for about 2 months and I can say the dipsh1t was a scam artist. I went in originally because I got a big pain in the neck. you know the type that you turn your head just the wrong way and it sends a sharp pain to the side of your neck and then it hurts like hell to twist your nest. Well, I went to him, he did the whole xray deal, said there was a problem, I didn't see a problem, but what the heck do I know. He had me come in a few times that week, and it finally tapered off to maybe once a week or two. Now the initial pain didn't go away any sooner than it had any of the prior times I had this happen. Eventually I just stopped going because I didn't feel any better after each session. Now I'm not saying that for some things they don't help, but more than likely they are going to rely on you coming back over and over again so they can milk your insurance for everything they're worth.

My stepmother, within the past year had gotten some letter from this guy, as she also went there, asking if my stepmother would write some type of letter stating what his character is like for some trial going on. It wouldn't doubt me if he was on trial for insurance fraud.

For me it was either surgery, try new 'stuff' or not lift decent weights ever again.

The Chiropractor I saw was GOOD but I'm sure there are loads of crap oens out there also. The osteopath I saw was poor and useless.

It worked for me without surgery :thumbsup:

Koing

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Well, here's the thing...you can't really *block* a nerve, AFAIK. A nerve is a bundle of neuron fibers called axons. The electrical impulses essentially travel around the surface of those axons. You can block a blood vessel with something stuck inside it, but you can't block something flowing around a cylindrical surface. (this is of course, a vast oversimplification, since its current thats "flowing") I can theoretically imagine misaligned bones somehow screwing with the ion channels that carry the action potentials and all, but I'm really just conjecturing here. I'm sure other people know it in better detail that can explain it better.

Although, If those nerves are disconnected or otherwise damaged, you're likely to have a hell of a lot bigger problem than back or neck pain.

Couple links for you, if you're interested, about how pinched nerves can lead to degradation of electrical message transmission:

link1

"If the nerve gets ?pinched? the flow up and down the inside of the hose is reduced or blocked and the nutrients stop flowing. Eventually the membrane starts to loose its healthy ability to transmit the tiny electrical charges and the nerve fiber may eve eventually die. When enough fibers stop working, the skin may feel numbness or a muscle may not contract."

...or organs inside your body may not function properly, since they also require proper nerve functionality.

link2

"Subluxations usually result in Nerve Interference, commonly known as a "pinched" nerve. Nerve interference creates an environment of imbalance and disease within the human body. This means that the nervous system is unable to properly perform it's job of transmitting messages from the brain and spinal cord to the rest of the body. This results in cells not getting the amount of oxygen they need to work properly; ultimately causing various health problems."

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: KK
yeah, now tell us how many more times he recommends you coming back to him.

he'll keep 'em coming back for life.

i'm pretty sure the op said 6 times. unless the op's life will expire in 2-3 weeks, i don't think you're right (again).

of course he wouldn't tell him "come see me for life". he'll start out with 6 times because that is probably the insurance limit.

but he will have some spiel about him needed to come back in the future.

yeah, the chiropractor might say something absolutely absurd like "you might want to come in every month or so just to keep your spine in good health so you don't develop problems later on." absolutely ridiculous... you're so right. why would ANYONE want healthy vertebral discs?

while we're at it, let's harp on the dentists, too, with their "come in every couple months for your check up to make sure you don't have cavities" bullcrap. those jerks are always out for your money... and you have to keep going for life?! please... who needs healthy teeth and gums anyways?

please...chiroprators are the biggest waste of money in the health care field probably. I went to one for about 2 months and I can say the dipsh1t was a scam artist. I went in originally because I got a big pain in the neck. you know the type that you turn your head just the wrong way and it sends a sharp pain to the side of your neck and then it hurts like hell to twist your nest. Well, I went to him, he did the whole xray deal, said there was a problem, I didn't see a problem, but what the heck do I know. He had me come in a few times that week, and it finally tapered off to maybe once a week or two. Now the initial pain didn't go away any sooner than it had any of the prior times I had this happen. Eventually I just stopped going because I didn't feel any better after each session. Now I'm not saying that for some things they don't help, but more than likely they are going to rely on you coming back over and over again so they can milk your insurance for everything they're worth.

My stepmother, within the past year had gotten some letter from this guy, as she also went there, asking if my stepmother would write some type of letter stating what his character is like for some trial going on. It wouldn't doubt me if he was on trial for insurance fraud.

i'm sorry that you had a bad experience. that sucks. however, it's pretty ignorant to base your opinion of all chiropractors based on this one guy.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: jagec
Chiropractors occupy a grey area between Eastern medicine and Western medicine. I'm not really sure whether they "work", but considering the sorts of reviews they tend to get...the skeptics see no improvement, the believers do...I'm not going to start giving them money every week.

Originally posted by: eits
yeah, the chiropractor might say something absolutely absurd like "you might want to come in every month or so just to keep your spine in good health so you don't develop problems later on." absolutely ridiculous... you're so right. why would ANYONE want healthy vertebral discs?

while we're at it, let's harp on the dentists, too, with their "come in every couple months for your check up to make sure you don't have cavities" bullcrap. those jerks are always out for your money... and you have to keep going for life?! please... who needs healthy teeth and gums anyways?

Funny, I'm a veritable picture of health, and I only ever enter a medical care facility once in a blue moon. Let me think...vaccinations, a handful of dentist visits, wisdom teeth, one X-ray after an accident at school...I think that's about it.

I guess I probably have some terrible disease I don't know about, huh?

Most preventative health care is something you can do yourself, for free. Do people's teeth really rot if they don't go to the dentist every couple months? Of course not...as long as they brush their teeth every day.

just because you can't feel your cervical discs degenerating or lumbar facets closing up doesn't mean that it's not happening. people can't feel osteophyte formation at their end plates.

no one's suggesting that you have anything. i'm stating that if you don't take care of your spine, you'll end up like the old man you see at the grocery store who moves at a snail's pace and has pain with every movement he makes. it catches up to you and there's a limit to what a chiropractor can and can't do restoratively.

 

[BD2003]

Couple links for you, if you're interested, about how pinched nerves can lead to degradation of electrical message transmission:

link1

"If the nerve gets ?pinched? the flow up and down the inside of the hose is reduced or blocked and the nutrients stop flowing. Eventually the membrane starts to loose its healthy ability to transmit the tiny electrical charges and the nerve fiber may eve eventually die. When enough fibers stop working, the skin may feel numbness or a muscle may not contract."

...or organs inside your body may not function properly, since they also require proper nerve functionality.

Sounds valid to me. Can't have impulses if the ions can't flow and distribute through the axon...didnt put that completely together in my mind when I made my previous statement.

link2

"Subluxations usually result in Nerve Interference, commonly known as a "pinched" nerve. Nerve interference creates an environment of imbalance and disease within the human body. This means that the nervous system is unable to properly perform it's job of transmitting messages from the brain and spinal cord to the rest of the body. This results in cells not getting the amount of oxygen they need to work properly; ultimately causing various health problems."

But now it begins to push it. An "environment" of imbalance is far too wishy washy for any serious doctor or someone with even a shred of scientific inclination to take seriously. Certain nerves get pinched, they lose their effectiveness (vast oversimplification, again), although this is usually a one way street - nerves dont regenerate all too well...but I can at least stomach the concept. Certain spinal nerves route to certain parts of your body, so a pinched nerve here or there is unlikely to effect your entire body. Your spinal cord primarily carries motor nerves, and sympathetic/parasympathetic signals, it doesnt nearly control the entire body as described.

Think about christopher reeve - he broke his back, and was paralyzed. He wasn't "diseased" so to speak, for a long time. Motor neurons gone. I doubt he had much of an ANS after that, but when you're in a wheelchair, you dont quite need it as much. The rest of your body functions either on its own or primarily integrated by the brain.

Cells not getting enough oxygen? I doubt that. Unless it somehow causes your lungs to collapse, your heart to stop beating (which beats completely on its own, independent of the CNS, which only affects its rate), and all your blood vessels to atrophy. Highly unlikely to my knowledge.

So ultimately, I'm left with the impression that there are a few valid instances where the actual "adjustments" made can be beneficial. If a *pinched nerve* is the problem. If you have an infection, its VERY UNLIKELY its due to a pinched nerve that is playing tricks with your ANS screwing with your immune response. You could have back/bone/joint pain for various reasons, pinched nerve being only one of them.

If chiropractors went to lengths to scientifically validate how the pinched nerves lead to *specific* problems, and limited their practice to those situations where they were actually effective, I'm sure they would be a respected medical speciality. But claiming they can cure infections, and solve all your back problems just reeks of quackery, and the medical community has to throw the baby out with the bathwater when dealing with them.

Wikipedia had an interesting take on it. I found this most revealing.

There is evidence that spinal manipulation is effective for the treatment of acute low back pain, tension headaches and some musculoskeletal issues, but not all studies support this conclusion.[5][6] There are no objective controlled trials with definitive conclusions for or against chiropractic claims concerning other health benefits.

Which tells me exactly what I'm thinking. Some problems they can fix, some they cant. They claim to fix all of them, and rather than go to lengths to validate it, they just turn the blind eye, and think that ignorance is bliss.

I'm all ears to hear otherwise, but to me, it sounds 10% valid, 90% absurd.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: azoomee

Originally posted by: eits
depends on the infection... ear infections or sinus infections, yeah.

as for migraines, it's one of the quickest and safest ways to get rid of migraines. 9/10 of migraine headaches are cervicogenic headaches anyways.

Infection: Um....according to the American Heritage dictionary, an infection is: "Invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms. " SO, if this is the case, how does moving your back around stop the "invasion and multiplication" of these organisms. .

Migraines: -- curious where you got your statistics (or is this a hunch?). According to the Webster Medical Dictionary: Migraines are thought to be "precipitated by dilatation of intracranial blood vessels ". I have a hard time believing that 9/10 of all headaches diagnosed as migraines, which are typically one sided severe headaches....often associated with aura, light sensitivity, etc....and can be brought on by things such as chocolate, red wine, etc... SO, how are these diagnosed migraines aka "cervicogenic headaches" associated with the aforementioned causes and results? especially 9/10ths...

Those of you with MDs or biology degrees -- whats your take? looking for the facts not conjecture....

i have a biology degree. thanks.

first off, cervical adjustments have been shown to speed up the healing process of ear and sinus infections. that's just documented research. it has to do with the nerves that go to the smooth muscles that allow for drainage to occur.

secondly, according to the seminar i went to in chicago given by the national headache association stated that 9/10 migraines aren't really migraines at all. they're headaches that are caused by musclular involvement from the neck. seeing how the definition of a migraine, as you so aptly stated, is a headache precipitated by the dilation of intracranial blood vessels, a headache that is precipitated by improper biomechanics of the cervical region would not fit the criteria. therefore, they must be considered cervicogenic headaches.

if you'd like to know more about headaches or migraines, some of this information (some of which i already touched on earlier in this thread) can be found here.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: azoomee
Infection: Um....according to the American Heritage dictionary, an infection is: "Invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms. " SO, if this is the case, how does moving your back around stop the "invasion and multiplication" of these organisms. It amazes me how some people can think this.

I'm no chiropractor, but I would guess that a disruption of the central nervous system (pinched nerves so as to block the nerve impulses) could cause a degradation of your immune system - white blood cells, lymphatic system, etc. - things that fight infection.

All that said, if I had an ear infection, seeing a chiropractor wouldn't be my first thought - I'd go to an ENT doc. But then again, seeing a chiropractor didn't cross my mind when I had intestinal problems either.

that's exactly right.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: azoomee
Infection: Um....according to the American Heritage dictionary, an infection is: "Invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms. " SO, if this is the case, how does moving your back around stop the "invasion and multiplication" of these organisms. It amazes me how some people can think this.

I'm no chiropractor, but I would guess that a disruption of the central nervous system (pinched nerves so as to block the nerve impulses) could cause a degradation of your immune system - white blood cells, lymphatic system, etc. - things that fight infection.

All that said, if I had an ear infection, seeing a chiropractor wouldn't be my first thought - I'd go to an ENT doc. But then again, seeing a chiropractor didn't cross my mind when I had intestinal problems either.

If you had a pinched nerve that degraded your immune system, youd have a hell of a lot more to worry about than a simple ear infection. If that was the case, we'd have people dying left and right from infections that could have been prevented if they had their spinal cords straightened. And that just isnt happening. So I seriously doubt the entire premise.

The dilation of blood vessels can be controlled by certain spinal nerves, so there *might* be some truth to that one.

But at the same time, nerves don't fire off by just being touched, so a spinal bone pushing against one abnormally shouldnt screw up your autonomic nervous system. I only claim ignorance to the point that I don't know EVERYTHING about the CNS. But it goes against everything that I do already know. I've yet to hear a single shred of scientific, or even sensical reason for how misaligned cords are going to cause the misfiring of nerves.

it's fair to doubt that. it's a very doubtable premise. but, whenever you learn the anatomy and physiology and you read studies that support the premise (and you've actually experienced the premise first hand), you start to accept the premise.

check some studies done in pubmed... it's a GREAT source for research studies