So I was driving through the ghetto yesterday.....

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
To all those who think driving woth an OC should be legal. Is that for all types of beverages and what size should be the limit? A 12 oz Can of beer, a 40 oz of Malt Liquor or how about a fifth of Gin?

You can have a fscking keg in the car for all I care. The issue is actual impairment, not any perceived future "potential" impairment.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: SampSon
Drinking and driving laws have done very little to prevent drunken drivers on the road or save lives. Over the past 20 years or so the number of people per 100,000 killed because of drinking and driving has gone down approximately 2-3 (per 100,000 people). Numbers are falsified on both sides of the argument. It is very difficult to accuratly measure the effectiveness of these laws.

In reality no amount of laws is going to stop people from doing what they want to do. People are regularly in court for their third, fourth, fifth DWI charge. So they get heavily fined, have their license suspended eventually and mabey even sent to prison. Well they are still going to drive, possibly after drinking, regardless of what the courts do to them. You can scream until you're blue in the face, but that isn't going to change a damn thing.

On a side note, driving is a privilege because the govt. has decided to levy and collect taxes on the ability to operate a vehicle. Usually that's how a "right" becomes a "privilege".

A while back everyone was screaming for this kind of statistical info, and yet only a couple people addressed it when it was posted. If this information is accurate, it answers everyone's questions about the effectiveness of OC laws.

Um, no. It doesn't. Are OC laws the only changes in 20 years? Far from it. There have been massive ad campaigns and education. Crack downs on drunk drivers and repeat offenders.

In fact, the most effective course of action in ANY issue like this is education, information, and strict enforcement.

The LEAST effective is piling laws on top of laws and punishing otherwise innocent people. As if a person inclined to break the DUI laws will be suddenly stopped by OC laws. That's about as silly as the idea that a person inclined to break the murder laws will be stopped by gun control laws.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Amused

Um, no. It doesn't. Are OC laws the only changes in 20 years? Far from it. There have been massive ad campaigns and education. Crack downs on drunk drivers and repeat offenders.

In fact, the most effective course of action in ANY issue like this is education, information, and strict enforcement.

The LEAST effective is piling laws on top of laws and punishing otherwise innocent people. As if a person inclined to break the DUI laws will be suddenly stopped by OC laws. That's about as silly as the idea that a person inclined to break the murder laws will be stopped by gun control laws.

SampSon's statistics actually support your argument, and I tend to agree with you about OC laws.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
SampSon's statistics actually support your argument, and I tend to agree with you about OC laws.

Oh. Um, OK.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Seems like every time something bad happens everyone looks to uncle sam to fix things. The only thing that our government can do to fix these things is pass laws, and many think that our government is at least "doing something" about the problem when they pass laws that seem to make the bad occurrence (whatever that happens to be) less likely to happen. What we are doing is replacing education with legislation, and in the process we are cutting away our freedoms one little piece at a time. It's not just OC laws, it's anything that has been regulated or outlawed in response to public outcry.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Seems like every time something bad happens everyone looks to uncle sam to fix things. The only thing that our government can do to fix these things is pass laws, and many think that our government is at least "doing something" about the problem when they pass laws that seem to make the bad occurrence (whatever that happens to be) less likely to happen. What we are doing is replacing education with legislation, and in the process we are cutting away our freedoms one little piece at a time. It's not just OC laws, it's anything that has been regulated in response to public outcry.

:thumbsup:

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Seems like every time something bad happens everyone looks to uncle sam to fix things. The only thing that our government can do to fix these things is pass laws, and many think that our government is at least "doing something" about the problem when they pass laws that seem to make the bad occurrence (whatever that happens to be) less likely to happen. What we are doing is replacing education with legislation, and in the process we are cutting away our freedoms one little piece at a time. It's not just OC laws, it's anything that has been regulated or outlawed in response to public outcry.

cough..PatriotActcough...

Finally finished reading this entire thread. Lots of ignorance and intelligence and nested quoting. I think open container laws are unnescessary, I think it was mentioned earlier about the state not making money off of drunk driving. That is a LIE. You are correct in saying that they don't make money keeping people in jail. It's the fees/court costs that they are making money on. I was under the impression that the taxes that law-abiding citizens pay supported government services. As much as I hate the law, I am not really that big of a drinker. I have never driven drunk and only drank in a car I was riding in (I was already drunk). In the end I would rather see NORML get it's way than alcohol lobbyists.

 

Dennis Rader *allegedly* killed like 10 people. "Legislation or government intervention" could not stop this, so apparently we should just do away with murder laws. Those murderers just need to take more responsibility for themselves.

Apples.. oranges.
Dennis Rader would have killed 10 people regardless of how much legislation is levied.

A while back everyone was screaming for this kind of statistical info, and yet only a couple people addressed it when it was posted. If this information is accurate, it answers everyone's questions about the effectiveness of OC laws.

The information is accurate, a few minutes with google will net you the same results.

Though recently there have been many articles and books written about the accuracy of information reported by agencies. It boils down to all information being reported can vary so much that nearly any conclusion can be drawn. One side can say that OC laws have been very effective, but the other side can present data just as valid that shows the exact opposite.
So basically no one knows anything. Though from all the actual data that was released it shows that OC and drinking and driving laws have been minimally effective in saving lives. This really should be common sense, we don't need laws to tell us this.