So I might need a commuting vehicle for a ~35km drive each way

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
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I'm probably going to get a new job (at a major car manufacturer no less - more on where, when papers are signed :D), and am looking for something to get me to work or back. Since public transport would take twice as long, as using individual transport, sadly that's no option.

I am already considering buying my "old" Swift Sport back from my sister, in case she may not really need it anymore, but I'm also interested in alternatives. It should be more of a utilitarian choice (Smart car might be an option, they're plentiful around here, or even a Renault Twizy). Of course, a wagon might be an alternative (I'm looking at Subaru Levorgs as well - especially dealer stock and leasing returns have attractive pricing), but I only would need one over a more compact car around two or three times a year. A rental would do the job just as well in most cases.

I'm also going to get subsidized pricing for leasing returns, new cars, and improved leasing rates from my future employer - but I'm not sure what the timeframe for eligibility would be. Probably have to double check that, but their car range and pricing, even after incentives, isn't what I would normally look for.

So essentially, list some cars that make financial sense as commuters, but don't make me hate myself, because I spend an hour in those boxes. Electric cars are only an option, if I can charge at work - at home I don't see charging being available any time soon. Doesn't have to be fun focused, the Elise will stick around.

If scooters weren't such death traps, I'd almost consider one of those...
 

bruceb

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
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When you get the job, they will probably offer discounts to buy their cars. As it is you are looking at about 44 miles round trip every day. Any car that feels comfortable should be fine for that.
 
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herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
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44 miles round trip is perfect for a volt. We love ours. We took it on a 4k mile road trip and got about 40 mpg. My wife uses no gas commuting. Over her old car we save about what the payment is. Costs about a dollar to charge it each night. It's even a little fun to drive. Also, less maintenance. Fewer oil changes, fewer brake jobs to to Regen braking. We have put about 50 k on ours and have changed the oil twice 3 times. Avg over 120 mpg not counting electric.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,080
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Do they sell the Chevy Spark / Daewoo Matiz / Opel Karl / Vauxhall Viva where you are? (likely they do, though not sure what they call it)

With the manual transmission, my brother loves his. It's cheap to run, and surprisingly roomy and nimble.

edit: probably not good for the Autoabahn though ...
 
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HarryLui

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2001
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2000-2006 gasoline only insight with disabled hybrid will easily get 50-70mpg with a/c running.
They're often cheap to buy because nobody wants to replace the $2000 battery on them.
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
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2000-2006 gasoline only insight with disabled hybrid will easily get 50-70mpg with a/c running.
They're often cheap to buy because nobody wants to replace the $2000 battery on them.

You can even get the CEL to go away now with the battery disabled, so it will pass inspection.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
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Had a look at the Karl, and I don't think I can live with a 70 hp 3-cyl -- ran a rented Fiesta with similar power and it was quite disappointing.
We don't get the Volt here, and the Opel AMpera has been a commercial failure, so there are very few hybrid cars on the used market, and due to the sale of Opel to PSA, there will be strictly limited sales of Ampera-e's, the new non-hybrid version. Given it's non multi-phase compatible charging tech, I don't think that it makes sense in Germany, from a purely technical standpoint.

The old Insight also was never available on the German market.

I am considering something like a Hyundai Veloster, a CR-Z (if the drive isn't too frustrating) or maybe even something french, like the new Twingo, or an old NA Clio Sport 197or mid 2000's Mégane Sport 225... Heck, maybe even a Laguna Coupé :D

As for discounts.... let's say, even after a discount, their cars aren't exactly economical. And because it's a German brand, that's before options ;)
 
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tweakmonkey

Senior member
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The 1g Insight is super lightweight but has long gears so it’s actually very very slow if the hybrid system isn’t working properly.

Electric cars are only an option, if I can charge at work

Did you find out if you can charge at work?
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
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Germany? Get something small and diesel.
Stuttgart - Small, non-commercial Diesel's are likely to be banned/surcharged in certain parts of town, given the current particulate matter excesses and a Green local and state Government.

Also, I plain don't like small Diesels. Below six cylinders they're just too rattly, and below 1.5 tonnes, the vehicles they're in are too loud. For me, it's the sound of vehicular depression :D

Another car I recently started looking at is the Citroen C4 Cactus, or the Opel Astra GTC.
The Cactus is underpowered for the Autobahn (110 hp max), but I would be willing to give one chance, due to the ride quality that it's said to have.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,553
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Perhaps not available where you are, but the Toyota hybrids are hard to beat for proven reliability. I have a 2007 Camry hybrid with 120k miles that has been cheap to operate and totally reliable.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
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My latest crazy idea was a Legacy Spec B. They can be had quite cheap, I wonder how well they hold up mechanically...
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,080
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My latest crazy idea was a Legacy Spec B. They can be had quite cheap, I wonder how well they hold up mechanically...
the Normally aspirated 2.5 has the head gasket & oil consumption problems, but as far as I know, the turbos have been pretty reliable. My worry with a spec B would be corrosion/rust, but that's only because my forester is an 08 and the salt used on the roads here likes to eat away at the underside of the car.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
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Perhaps not available where you are, but the Toyota hybrids are hard to beat for proven reliability. I have a 2007 Camry hybrid with 120k miles that has been cheap to operate and totally reliable.

If it's available, the 2018 non-hybrid Camry with 2.5l engine has been getting impressive highway fuel economy in all the reviews I've read. I've test driven a couple, and it's so satisfying to be running at such a low rpm in a 4-banger gasoline engine while cruising at 75mph. I think the (low end) powertrain option is one area where the Camry soundly beats the new Accord.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,935
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Still mulling it over --- looked at small, agreeably powered cars, but get shit on by everyone who I tell about my options :D

Only need the car by February, so it's not that urgent yet (and no point in getting it any earlier).

My sister is thinking about selling me my Swift back, and both my parents want to sell/gift me each of their cars...but one would be another soft-top, and the other an old Diesel SUV, which to me would be the exact opposite of what my heart desires.

Fiestas, Méganes, Leons, DS3s, DS4s, Kizashis, Astras, Corsas...just look at all these, and tell me they're crap:

https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/opel-astra-gtc-benzin-rot-1f51a95b-e119-dc7c-e053-e350040ae752
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-1fdfff59-2912-44ee-b055-9ac0ccbf1119
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-grau-ac74ec92-5945-44d0-b5af-0541ed4945f5
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-blau-1f276953-6381-8c63-e053-e350040a5a55
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-58fa5e59-e48d-8765-e053-e350040a7184
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-0ccf0b5c-c7a0-6b4f-e053-e350040a6e23
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-d6d2b956-4704-4137-8c6b-35da899b6dc4
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-grau-6f6c27d6-96e7-4980-980b-ce0383a186de
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-blau-ec6ffa5b-aba1-e639-e053-e350040abb15
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...nzin-rot-bcdcbb4f-0597-c340-e053-e250040accda
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-6399d952-a43d-0751-e053-e350040acc87 (no pics....suuuuucks...)
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-5d618791-d51e-4bf6-9940-61961f74fe49
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-blau-ceb67cd8-3092-401a-8b33-f5a688282150
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-cda38018-ba7f-4730-ac14-00e0942ac331 (no pics AGAIN?)
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-fce4d297-0384-46c3-a56b-c53e68730a29

More Kizashis:
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-grau-b5227250-8a0c-6b70-e053-e250040a050e
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...n-silber-f3f7222c-6736-4120-ba58-a107e2f56947

And oh my god italians:
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=242262428
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=251701623
https://home.mobile.de/PALAZZO#des_241715084 (though 500s are kind of weird, with their 5 gear-box, and that stupid dashboard.)
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,080
1,560
126
Still mulling it over --- looked at small, agreeably powered cars, but get shit on by everyone who I tell about my options :D

Only need the car by February, so it's not that urgent yet (and no point in getting it any earlier).

My sister is thinking about selling me my Swift back, and both my parents want to sell/gift me each of their cars...but one would be another soft-top, and the other an old Diesel SUV, which to me would be the exact opposite of what my heart desires.

Fiestas, Méganes, Leons, DS3s, DS4s, Kizashis, Astras, Corsas...just look at all these, and tell me they're crap:

https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/opel-astra-gtc-benzin-rot-1f51a95b-e119-dc7c-e053-e350040ae752
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-1fdfff59-2912-44ee-b055-9ac0ccbf1119
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-grau-ac74ec92-5945-44d0-b5af-0541ed4945f5
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-blau-1f276953-6381-8c63-e053-e350040a5a55
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-58fa5e59-e48d-8765-e053-e350040a7184
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-0ccf0b5c-c7a0-6b4f-e053-e350040a6e23
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-d6d2b956-4704-4137-8c6b-35da899b6dc4
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-grau-6f6c27d6-96e7-4980-980b-ce0383a186de
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-blau-ec6ffa5b-aba1-e639-e053-e350040abb15
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...nzin-rot-bcdcbb4f-0597-c340-e053-e250040accda
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-6399d952-a43d-0751-e053-e350040acc87 (no pics....suuuuucks...)
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-5d618791-d51e-4bf6-9940-61961f74fe49
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-blau-ceb67cd8-3092-401a-8b33-f5a688282150
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...in-weiss-cda38018-ba7f-4730-ac14-00e0942ac331 (no pics AGAIN?)
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...-schwarz-fce4d297-0384-46c3-a56b-c53e68730a29

More Kizashis:
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...zin-grau-b5227250-8a0c-6b70-e053-e250040a050e
https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote...n-silber-f3f7222c-6736-4120-ba58-a107e2f56947

And oh my god italians:
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=242262428
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=251701623
https://home.mobile.de/PALAZZO#des_241715084 (though 500s are kind of weird, with their 5 gear-box, and that stupid dashboard.)


We do get the Legacy and the Fiesta here in the states ... but that's about it from your list ... (we used to get the swift a while back before suzuki pulled out of the market here) ...
That DS 4 looks realllly nice ....

Those alphas ... beautiful ... but I'd be too much a coward to buy one for fear of maintenance/repair costs
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,935
68
91
It does, that leather is....drool-worthy. I wonder what the catch on that one is :)
 
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_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,935
68
91
So, I ended up going full unicorn and bought a Subaru Levorg. There's more new Ferraris registered in Germany than in Levorgs :D

In the end I drove a Golf GTI Performance Pack and was offered a fair price, but couldn't get over driving a Golf. I tried to test drive a Hyundai i30N, but the local dealer only had one available for 20 minutes accompanied drives in fair weather. Welp, if you don't want to sell cars....
Was considering a 200hp B-class for ~400€ a month as a lease, but that felt worse than the Golf, even though it was a hilarious idea. 200hp MPVs are kinda funny.

Well, the Levorg is still the most car you can get for the money, even if the exhib one I got wasn't pristine (hail damage, paint chips, scratches) which the dealer will take care off. Delivery to my home is scheduled within 14 days.

If my girlfriend ever needs a dedicated car, I'll so get that barebones Clio Sport though.... :D
And I can't ever tell my boss....
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
4,307
450
126
but the local dealer only had one available for 20 minutes accompanied drives in fair weather.

Fair weather seems like an odd stipulation, but 20 minutes seems about right for a test drive. At least over here. Is it different over there?
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,935
68
91
Fair weather seems like an odd stipulation, but 20 minutes seems about right for a test drive. At least over here. Is it different over there?

All my past test drives usually went for an hour to 90 minutes - I want to get onto the highway (particularly to a derestricted bit, where you can check how the car behaves beyond 75mph - wind, road and engine noise often become a huge factor there), onto the twisties and go around town, to get an overall impression of the car. In 20 minutes, you barely get out of town, and no idea of how engine, transmission, steering and suspension interact under the variety of real world loads that are relevant. Plus, in 20 minutes, you barely get an impression of the seat.

The fair weather stipulation was because they only had the performance summer tires on the car. Which makes winter drive pointless and dangerous. Why you'd try to sell a car that way is beyond me.

I think I only ever had one short test drive, because it was a bit spontaneous and the sales clerk was about to close shop. Luckily the Focus ST's suspension was so bad, that a single pot hole was enough to make sure that it wasn't the car for me :D
 

bruceb

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
8,874
111
106
I would always prefer a test drive in either rain or light snow, when it near or just after dark. That way you can tell how the car handles bad weather, even if it is only in an empty lot. And you can then judge how good or bad the headlights and fog lights work. Many of them look good, but really do a poor job illuminating the roadway and the shoulder of the road. European car lighting standards are much more effective than those in the USA
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
4,307
450
126
All my past test drives usually went for an hour to 90 minutes - I want to get onto the highway (particularly to a derestricted bit, where you can check how the car behaves beyond 75mph - wind, road and engine noise often become a huge factor there), onto the twisties and go around town, to get an overall impression of the car. In 20 minutes, you barely get out of town, and no idea of how engine, transmission, steering and suspension interact under the variety of real world loads that are relevant. Plus, in 20 minutes, you barely get an impression of the seat.

The fair weather stipulation was because they only had the performance summer tires on the car. Which makes winter drive pointless and dangerous. Why you'd try to sell a car that way is beyond me.

I think I only ever had one short test drive, because it was a bit spontaneous and the sales clerk was about to close shop. Luckily the Focus ST's suspension was so bad, that a single pot hole was enough to make sure that it wasn't the car for me :D

Interesting. I've never had a test drive over 20 minutes over here.

In regards to the tires, you might like to know I've never had anything beside performance summer tires on my BMW. No need to out here. :p