So, I can't squat anymore.

[Blackjack200]

I finished my second of what was supposed to be 3 sets at 290 lbs. but immediately knew the jig was up. I put 100 lbs. on the squat in the last seven weeks. My goal was to hit a 405 lb. squat by October. There is no way that will happen now.

I have a surgically repaired labrum and cannot get my left shoulder in correct position for my hands to brace the bar properly. I've tried everything from moving my left hand all the way out to the collar, to using a thumbs under grip. The pain it causes in my shoulder/elbow/arm is actually difficult to describe, It's actually not an acute pain but a dull throb that is somehow more miserable than just about anything I've ever dealt with.

I know this will sound silly, but I'm actually really upset about this. I've become a big believer in squats and don't believe there is any real way to replace them. I'm going to try to do front squats, but I'm afraid that's going to give me issues too as I have very long forearms.

I suppose the other option is a safety squat bar. I don't have access to one at the moment but I'll have to find a gym that does.

 

[Malfeas]

Have you tried switching to high bar squats?

 

[Blackjack200]

I put the bar as high as I could. Way up on the traps.

 

[Koing]

Try this:
http://personaltrainerguildford.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/front-squat-straps-1.jpg

It may help your front squat out with your shoulders.

Koing

 

[cliftonite]

Rest the shoulder and wait till it is completely healed. You got to 290 once and you WILL get there and above once your shoulder is healed.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I think perhaps one of the biggest problems is mentioned in your OP - you put 100lbs on your squat in 7 weeks. That's fine if you're healthy without injuries. However, if you've been nursing a shoulder injury, you should have definitely been a bit more methodical and gradual. In addition, you need to do some special work to maintain good strength and mobility in your shoulder to optimize the outcome. If the labrum is surgically repaired, you need to consistently do certain stretches and strength exercises for your rotator cuff, scapular stabilizers, and general shoulder coordination. Did you ever go to physical therapy after surgery?

 

[Corporate Thug]

you can always try something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqAvD0M8mvE&feature=player_embedded#at=56

or using a hip belt perhaps?

 

[Blackjack200]

Try this:
http://personaltrainerguildford.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/front-squat-straps-1.jpg

It may help your front squat out with your shoulders.

Koing

Thanks, that's interesting.

Rest the shoulder and wait till it is completely healed. You got to 290 once and you WILL get there and above once your shoulder is healed.

Maybe, I don't know though, I won't give up just yet, but I'm not encouraged. My shoulder actually feels fine now, but if I squat again it will be in agony.

I think perhaps one of the biggest problems is mentioned in your OP - you put 100lbs on your squat in 7 weeks. That's fine if you're healthy without injuries. However, if you've been nursing a shoulder injury, you should have definitely been a bit more methodical and gradual. In addition, you need to do some special work to maintain good strength and mobility in your shoulder to optimize the outcome. If the labrum is surgically repaired, you need to consistently do certain stretches and strength exercises for your rotator cuff, scapular stabilizers, and general shoulder coordination. Did you ever go to physical therapy after surgery?

Sorry, I should have been more clear in the OP. It's a 15 year old injury, not recent. I did go to PT after the surgery, but I was never able to restore full ROM.

The shoulder is actually quite strong. My overhead press is 137.5 lbs. with no pain. The limited ROM just leaves it in a bad position for the back squat.

 

[Blackjack200]

you can always try something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqAvD0M8mvE&feature=player_embedded#at=56

or using a hip belt perhaps?

Yeah, I've been considering a number of squat variations. I've heard of BSS before, but never seen them or actually knew what they were.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Sorry, I should have been more clear in the OP. It's a 15 year old injury, not recent. I did go to PT after the surgery, but I was never able to restore full ROM.

The shoulder is actually quite strong. My overhead press is 137.5 lbs. with no pain. The limited ROM just leaves it in a bad position for the back squat.

That's a big problem right there. With a labral surgery you should, really no matter what, get full ROM back. That right there is probably a huge contributor here. Do you stretch your shoulder daily? Because if not, you really should start.

Well, I'm talking more about different muscle groups. You can be strong in a press, but have a really weak rotator cuff, serratus anterior, lower trapezius, etc.

 

[Blackjack200]

That's a big problem right there. With a labral surgery you should, really no matter what, get full ROM back. That right there is probably a huge contributor here. Do you stretch your shoulder daily? Because if not, you really should start.

No. I spoke with an orthopedist about it when I sprained my ankle last year. I showed him the ROM I had he told me that at this point stretching was unlikely to help it, and on the other hand, if I don't have pain or movement problems (other than the limited ROM) it's a bad idea to do a joint manipulation or open it up because it could cause more problems than it solves.

Basically he told me 'live with it'.

I've been told that in many cases the orthopedic surgeon will tighten up a shoulder capsule so reinjury is less likely. I don't know if that's what happened here, but it sure seems like it.

Well, I'm talking more about different muscle groups. You can be strong in a press, but have a really weak rotator cuff, serratus anterior, lower trapezius, etc.

I find that really hard to believe. As I understand it, the rotator cuff is very much involved in the press. Maybe not as much direct work as the deltoids or the triceps, but enough that a 140 lb. x 5 press, which I just hit for three sets this morning, should be impossible with a weak rotator cuff.

Also, did my first sets of front squats this morning, holy hell they are hard! I had intended to go up to at least 135 x 5 and add 20 lbs. per session, but I ended up stopping at 125 lbs. (3 sets of 5 reps), and I'll be happy to add 10 lbs. per session for a little while.

I recorded them and the reps were not as ugly as I thought they would be. I got a bunch below parallel even though I was really struggling with the movement. I kept tilting forward at the bottom even though I was conciously trying to keep myself back, and the weight did end up drifting forward.

I think this will largely correct itself as the weight increases, but I'll keep taking video (and putting it in the form check thread!) and trying to improve form.

It was very hard on my forearms, as expected, so I may need to use Koing's trick. One good thing is that I think if I can get a nice, strong, tight front squat, it should really give me a strong push press, which I can use to improve my pressing.:thumbsup:

 

[SociallyChallenged]

No. I spoke with an orthopedist about it when I sprained my ankle last year. I showed him the ROM I had he told me that at this point stretching was unlikely to help it, and on the other hand, if I don't have pain or movement problems (other than the limited ROM) it's a bad idea to do a joint manipulation or open it up because it could cause more problems than it solves.

Basically he told me 'live with it'.

I've been told that in many cases the orthopedic surgeon will tighten up a shoulder capsule so reinjury is less likely. I don't know if that's what happened here, but it sure seems like it.

I find that really hard to believe. As I understand it, the rotator cuff is very much involved in the press. Maybe not as much direct work as the deltoids or the triceps, but enough that a 140 lb. x 5 press, which I just hit for three sets this morning, should be impossible with a weak rotator cuff.

Also, did my first sets of front squats this morning, holy hell they are hard! I had intended to go up to at least 135 x 5 and add 20 lbs. per session, but I ended up stopping at 125 lbs. (3 sets of 5 reps), and I'll be happy to add 10 lbs. per session for a little while.

I recorded them and the reps were not as ugly as I thought they would be. I got a bunch below parallel even though I was really struggling with the movement. I kept tilting forward at the bottom even though I was conciously trying to keep myself back, and the weight did end up drifting forward.

I think this will largely correct itself as the weight increases, but I'll keep taking video (and putting it in the form check thread!) and trying to improve form.

It was very hard on my forearms, as expected, so I may need to use Koing's trick. One good thing is that I think if I can get a nice, strong, tight front squat, it should really give me a strong push press, which I can use to improve my pressing.:thumbsup:

Orthopedists are surgical specialists - not rehab specialists. I am, in fact, a rehab specialist. In nearly all cases where someone is post-surgical (even 10 years down the line) joint mobilization and stretches are an essential part of recovering improved ROM. I don't care if someone gets full ROM, but they have to have functional ROM. At this stage, you don't have that. Any doctor that tells you to live with it without offering some sort of other option is one that doesn't want to take the time to help you. I see pts like you every single day an each one makes significant improvements.

You'd be surprised. The rotator cuff is mainly a muscle that promotes the shoulder moving in an optimal fashion. It is active, but depending on your coordination and movement strategies, it can be VERY active or barely active. And it's not impossible at all. I've worked with guys that can press 1.5x body weight, but can't withstand my manual pressure when I test the rotator cuff. Your large muscles can get very strong while leaving the smaller ones in the dust. In addition, you can press a ton with a weak serratus. Just because you say "I can move the bar" doesn't mean you move the bar in the optimal way. Reference: your back squat. Your shoulder is a very complex region with 4 joints that must all move in a particular way. If your scapula doesn't move well, then it affects your true shoulder (glenohumeral joint). If your glenohumeral joint is restricted, your scapula moves way too much. Each causes its own set of problems.

I think you've pretty much accepted that your shoulder won't work so you're not willing to try. You should try stretching it for external rotation, abuction, etc at a moderate intensity. If that kills you, then go lighter. You will notice ROM improvements. All tissue can be modified, it just depends how much. I imagine you're limited particularly in glenohumeral external rotation and scapular retraction, which make it very hard to get into a good low bar squat position. Stretch your pecs, stretch for external rotation. You've already worked hard to get the squat to where it is, and you're willing to let it go? I find that a bit exasperating.

 

[Blackjack200]

If your glenohumeral joint is restricted, your scapula moves way too much. Each causes its own set of problems.

This is definitely what's happening.

I think you've pretty much accepted that your shoulder won't work so you're not willing to try. You should try stretching it for external rotation, abuction, etc at a moderate intensity. If that kills you, then go lighter. You will notice ROM improvements. All tissue can be modified, it just depends how much. I imagine you're limited particularly in glenohumeral external rotation and scapular retraction, which make it very hard to get into a good low bar squat position. Stretch your pecs, stretch for external rotation. You've already worked hard to get the squat to where it is, and you're willing to let it go? I find that a bit exasperating.

I didn't want to admit this, but I was in tears on Friday. Squatting is that important to me. If you really think I can improve ROM enough to squat again, I'll try almost anything.

When you say "stretch your pecs", what's a good way to do this? Door hangs (more like pullup bar hangs for me)? How do I stop my scapula from moving around while I do this?

When you say " stretch for external rotation" is that lying supine on a bench with a dumbell in my left hand and my elbow at 90 degrees, trying to lower the dumbell as much as possible?

 

[KIAman]

How about using a safety squat bar. It will allow you to squat with your arms forward rather than back. Might be easier on the shoulder.

 

[Blackjack200]

yeah, I've thought about it. If you look at the position of the weight compared to body though, it's almost equivalent to a front squat anyway. But it's something I'm considering.

 

[Koing]

yeah, I've thought about it. If you look at the position of the weight compared to body though, it's almost equivalent to a front squat anyway. But it's something I'm considering.

Almost but it's not where near the same in actual loads.

FS HAMMERS your trunk (if you lean forwards on the front squat it's game over) and quads more than the safety squat bar.

How is your injury now a days? Find ways mate. In 2005 a Dr didn't believe I could lift properly ever again. 2006 I showed him and hit a life time PB

Koing

 

[Blackjack200]

Still not 100%, I may try back squats again tomorrow morning, using the Starr rehab method (lots of light reps) and see how it feels.

Some other things I probably should have mentioned... squatting gives me a stiff neck and general tightness/soreness in my upper chest area on the left side. I think that's related to the shoulder problem too.

I won't give up though. I'm sure that somewhere out there, someone has overcome a bigger challenge than this to squatting.

 

[taq8ojh]

I finished my second of what was supposed to be 3 sets at 290 lbs. but immediately knew the jig was up. I put 100 lbs. on the squat in the last seven weeks. My goal was to hit a 405 lb. squat by October. There is no way that will happen now.

I have a surgically repaired labrum and cannot get my left shoulder in correct position for my hands to brace the bar properly. I've tried everything from moving my left hand all the way out to the collar, to using a thumbs under grip. The pain it causes in my shoulder/elbow/arm is actually difficult to describe, It's actually not an acute pain but a dull throb that is somehow more miserable than just about anything I've ever dealt with.

I know this will sound silly, but I'm actually really upset about this. I've become a big believer in squats and don't believe there is any real way to replace them. I'm going to try to do front squats, but I'm afraid that's going to give me issues too as I have very long forearms.

I suppose the other option is a safety squat bar. I don't have access to one at the moment but I'll have to find a gym that does.

Hey, at least you can probably find some sort of way around the bar.
I am in similar boat with deadlifts, only I'm really fucked. My hip is a mess, last year (after I complained of occasional pain) they found out I had osteoarthritis in 2nd stage in the damn joint. I've probably had it for years, the doctor said, but I was young and it hardly progressed at all so I wasn't aware of it.
Good luck to you!