So how exactly do Europeans cope with high prices?

[Miramonti]

Even tho its more expensive in Europe, Europeans are still similar life forms as in the United States, which technically don't require out eating at expensive restaurants each week to survive.

 

[kt]

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
How they deal with gas prices? They use public transportation and walk. Reason why Americans are so fat because they're married to their motorized vehicles.

Your statement is filled with ignorance. I don't know where to begin...

 

[miri]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Im assuming Europeans dont make that much more than their American counterparts, but the price of virtually everything in Europe, housing, food, energy, is much higher than that of the the US.

So how exactly does the average European get by? Living in multifamily dwellings? Staying with their parents? Living on bare essentials? Less toys?

With inflation and wage stagnation coming to the US, Im looking ahead to the future 🙂

Condensed cities
Smaller cars and much larger use of mopeds
Efficient bus routes, subways and trains.
Cabs are all over as well

Cities in Europe are much more condensed. When I lived in Sevilla I walked daily from the outskirts of the city to the downtown area where my school was in about 45 minutes. I could probably walk from one side of Sevilla to the other in 1 or 2 hours. Try doing that in a large American city.

Also mopeds are extremely popular. Most of the cars are tiny and there are bus routes all over. The larger cities like Madrid have efficient subway systems as well and there are trains that run between the major cities. Basically cars are more a luxury then a necessity there.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: DefDC

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Aside from being able to take the bus or train anywhere at any time, social welfare is a huge huge part of it. Once the rent and food are paid, everything else is disposable. Don't need to save for college, because college is fairly cheap (free in some countries). Don't need to save for sickness, because healthcare is free. Don't need to save for retirement, because that's taken care of (in some countries)..

Oh yeah, and they don't need cars. My car's gas and insurance is about $4500 per year. Maybe $5500 if I include repairs (oil, replace windshield, winter tire changeover, etc).

is it fair to the person who doesn't want to go to college? is it fair to the person who lives healthy and doesn't want comprehensive healthcare? is it fair to the person who'd rather invest in higher returning assets for retirement?

Here is the fundamental difference between Capitalism and Socialism. In Capitalism Me>Greater Good of the Society whilst in Socialism Greater Good of the Society > Me.

You pick what you want and move to the country that offers it.

Neither system in it's pure form works. That's why countries are trying to find a "perfect" balance.

Capitalism = Human greed will cause the system to break down.
Socialism = Human laziness will cause the system to break down.

IMO= All human necessities should be at least minimally covered by the state. All non-essentials should be left the %@(# alone by the state.

I agree there is no perfect system. Was just pointing out the ideological difference between capitalism and socialism. I hate how the word 'ideological' is immediately associated with commies or terrorists.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
How they deal with gas prices? They use public transportation and walk. Reason why Americans are so fat because they're married to their motorized vehicles.

Live in an area where you drive 40 miles or so with 0 public transit and maybe you will change your small minded elitist opinion

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I really think their culture has adopted, because energy and living expenses have been high since WWII. They have better mass transit, and everything is concentrated into smaller areas. Dwellings are small, they don't have yards, and efficiency is stressed.

Here in the US, everything is spread out, most cities have poor mass transit, and people like to live outside of the city so long drives are needed.

That is one point that I left out of my post. Towns are much more concentrated with lots of land separating those towns. This allows most people in the town to walk/bike to do most of their errands.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
How they deal with gas prices? They use public transportation and walk. Reason why Americans are so fat because they're married to their motorized vehicles.

I've never felt the need to drive until I started living in the States.
Unless you didn't know, America is just huge country where everything is scattered around. A car is a must in America unless you're in N.Y.C.
Man, I even feel stupid trying to explain this. How can you not know it?

 

[DefDC]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
How they deal with gas prices? They use public transportation and walk. Reason why Americans are so fat because they're married to their motorized vehicles.

Live in an area where you drive 40 miles or so with 0 public transit and maybe you will change your small minded elitist opinion

Agreed. Most Europeans don't realized how big the US is. State capitals are lucky to have some sort of basic mass transit. Busses and trains are mostly impractical for most cities. Most roads aren't equipped for bikes and scooters. (unfortunately)

Cars ARE a necessity for most Americans. The price of gas is a huge burden for people that HAVE to drive to a low paying job. That money comes out of their food/living budget.

The car companies seem to do Americans an injustice. To us, the ultra compact car may look a little goofy, but now that wages are lower than ever, a $5000 tiny car might do well.

 

[ViviTheMage]

europe has the best public transportation ive ever seen!

granted if they live 40 miles or so outside of the cities they work in, obviously they commute and deal with the prices.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

What if you don't want day care for kids and you are a stay at home? Or your parents babysit for free? Where is the fairness in paying into something you don't want/need?

No offense but that is pure crap. We have the same BS here just in a different format. "Why should I pay taxes for public school when my kids go to private?" Blah, blah, blah and so on.
Please, try again...

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: DefDC

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
How they deal with gas prices? They use public transportation and walk. Reason why Americans are so fat because they're married to their motorized vehicles.

Live in an area where you drive 40 miles or so with 0 public transit and maybe you will change your small minded elitist opinion

Agreed. Most Europeans don't realized how big the US is. State capitals are lucky to have some sort of basic mass transit. Busses and trains are mostly impractical for most cities. Most roads aren't equipped for bikes and scooters. (unfortunately)

Cars ARE a necessity for most Americans. The price of gas is a huge burden for people that HAVE to drive to a low paying job. That money comes out of their food/living budget.

The car companies seem to do Americans an injustice. To us, the ultra compact car may look a little goofy, but now that wages are lower than ever, a $5000 tiny car might do well.

Yup, over here if you get in a car and drive for a few hours you might be in another state. Get in a car and drive for a few hours there and you are likely in another country that doesn't even speak the same language

Here is a comparison:
http://www.wisegeek.com/how-bi...-states-in-america.htm

 

[Rill22]

Much better public transportation, and a much more condensed population.

Even if you live a bit outside the city, the public transportation crushes everything we have in most cities, and there's not any stigma in using it.

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Actually attending university is pretty cheap compared to some of the US, although considerably more expensive than in much of the rest of Europe.
And yes, whoever says we don't need cars is insane. We probably drive a bit less, but public transport is crap in most places in the UK. And where it's not crap, it's expensive.

Compare something like the transport in Rome to that in London, and you get something that's probably 10x cheaper.
And not only do we need cars, we have to pay tax on the fuel, tax to run our cars, and have a yearly roadworthiness test. I'm sure they pay car tax in the US as well, but then they pay less fuel tax.

I don't think we pay tax to run our cars. What do you mean exactly?


I have pretty much all the public transportation I need here in Salt Lake City, Utah. I haven't had a car for a couple years. I also hardly ever eat out or buy luxury items. I guess I'm the ideal European...

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: DefDC

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
How they deal with gas prices? They use public transportation and walk. Reason why Americans are so fat because they're married to their motorized vehicles.

Live in an area where you drive 40 miles or so with 0 public transit and maybe you will change your small minded elitist opinion

Agreed. Most Europeans don't realized how big the US is. State capitals are lucky to have some sort of basic mass transit. Busses and trains are mostly impractical for most cities. Most roads aren't equipped for bikes and scooters. (unfortunately)

Cars ARE a necessity for most Americans. The price of gas is a huge burden for people that HAVE to drive to a low paying job. That money comes out of their food/living budget.

Many Europeans seem to forget two key parts that make the US very different:

First, the United States is the same size as the entire *continent* of Europe. Europeans tend to talk about their country alone or maybe neighboring countries. You have to compare the entire US to all of Europe to get a better comparison. Furthermore the population of the US is less than half that of Europe.

Second, the majority of the US was developed AFTER the automobile became common. Most of Europe is the opposite. Along with this you have to recognize that affordable housing tends to be the *furthest* from good paying jobs.

 

[DefDC]

Heh... I forgot to mention that the NECESSITY (and overdependence) on a car is MUCH of what is making so many Americans overweight.

I know in college when I walked to most places and didn't need a car for much, I was *ahem* 20 pounds lighter. Now the majority of my outdoor walking is ONLY to and from my car. (or hiking to my favorite fishing spots) 🙂

 

[LS21]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Yup, over here if you get in a car and drive for a few hours you might be in another state. Get in a car and drive for a few hours there and you are likely in another country that doesn't even speak the same language

well, in europe, you can drive anywhere and they'll still speak english (russia excluded!). it might not be the same driving in the southwest, unless you know Spanglish! 😀

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: LS21

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Yup, over here if you get in a car and drive for a few hours you might be in another state. Get in a car and drive for a few hours there and you are likely in another country that doesn't even speak the same language

well, in europe, you can drive anywhere and they'll still speak english (russia excluded!). it might not be the same driving in the southwest, unless you know Spanglish! 😀

Un cerveza por favor. Donde es el bano.

That's all you need to know

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
the average european family dwelling in western europe is smaller than the average poor family's house in the US.

..only goes to show ya how well off the "poor" are in the US.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Aside from being able to take the bus or train anywhere at any time, social welfare is a huge huge part of it. Once the rent and food are paid, everything else is disposable. Don't need to save for college, because college is fairly cheap (free in some countries). Don't need to save for sickness, because healthcare is free. Don't need to save for retirement, because that's taken care of (in some countries)..

Oh yeah, and they don't need cars. My car's gas and insurance is about $4500 per year. Maybe $5500 if I include repairs (oil, replace windshield, winter tire changeover, etc).

Nothing is free. They are forced to pay for it via high taxes. The merits of that are another discussion.

The majority of people take more than they put in. I'm in Canada where my total income tax is about 20%, but the services I get back far exceed that. European countries are the same way, but double that. Pay more in, take way more out.

In a place like France, you might pay 50% of your total income in taxes, but most people still get back a lot more than they put in. Day care is about $1,000 per month per kid; it's free in France. For a family of 4, where 2 kids are in day care, that means $24,000 per year worth of services is provided, free of charge. Does that French family pay $24,000 more in taxes per year than a similar family in the US or Canada? Some yes, some no. I would bet most would fall under the no category. Savings like that are how Europeans can pay twice as much for stuff, and still maintain an acceptable standard of living.

Obviously not everyone takes out more than they put in, or the system wouldnt work. I think you forget all the taxes you indirectly pay, via higher business taxes, fuel taxes, etc. The money is being paid by someone, I can assure you.


edit: Now granted some costs are less in Europe, which helps mitigate this. Doctors arent paid like movie stars, and lawyers dont extort the system from top to bottom.

 

[Syrch]

They no longer spend $5 for a small cup of coffee at starbucks. Amazing what $35 a week/$140 a month/$1820 a year can do for your wallet. And thats for just one person. They may even buy a used vehicle instead of having to pay $400-$1000 a month to eventually own a vehicle that gets traded in once its paid off.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Makes you want to go and kiss the nearest Mexican dont it?

I did that!

I used to be married to a Mexican-American woman.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Obviously not everyone takes out more than they put in, or the system wouldnt work. I think you forget all the taxes you indirectly pay, via higher business taxes, fuel taxes, etc. The money is being paid by someone, I can assure you.


edit: Now granted some costs are less in Europe, which helps mitigate this. Doctors arent paid like movie stars, and lawyers dont extort the system from top to bottom.

Don't forget the VAT tax on everything you buy. Nice little 18% chunk right there.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: dr150
They make it up with a social system where health care is FREE and when you get old you're taken care of.

That's worth MUCH MORE than the price of gas. The rest of the cost of goods and services is pretty much the same.

The US is is WAAAY BEHIND in terms of what what we get back from our taxes!

Bullshit!

The US Government is already the largest supplier of healthcare in the country. Medicare, Indian, VA and all the billions of dollars diverted to state health care providers covers nearly half of the current US population.

France can afford to provide "free" (Nothing is free) childcare due to a much lower birth rate than we have in the US.

Lets not forget the US is also the provider of security for all of these so called socialist paradises in Europe. If these countries were responsible for their own security, they would not be offering all these services.

 

[ShawnD1]

actually a lot of european countries have large militaries. france and uk are something like 10% of gdp, and almost everyone in switzerland has military training.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
actually a lot of european countries have large militaries. france and uk are something like 10% of gdp, and almost everyone in switzerland has military training.

France and the UK are the exceptions in Europe and not the rule.