So, how come no one has asked the presidential candidates

[sdifox]

China is corrupt in different ways, usually more with regards to worker exploitation/lack of a body to petition to. Because they're still developing, it inevitably leads to cut corners and less emphasis on human safety, and therefore more construction mishaps. On the other hand, they execute their billionaires when they commit outright scams, something that doesn't happen anywhere in the West, which actually keeps everyone in line. Benevolent authoritarianism isn't the prettiest kind of government, but it gets stuff done as long as all the right incentives are in play.

You mean all the farmers that had their land appropriated without proper compensation then get killed by the authorities when they protest just misunderstood the good intentions of the government? Corruption in China makes American corruption look childish.

 

[K1052]

Really, you could say that about a lot of things in gov't. Gov't is inefficient because efficiency really isn't the primary goal. You've also got to please various interest groups, make sure no one is offended, spread the spending to as broad a base as possible, etc., etc. The public sector has all the inefficiencies of the private sector minus the correcting mechanism of the profit motive. Also, given the inherent short-sightedness of democracies, it's easy for an entrenched bureaucracy to 'bunker down' and survive most political storms. Elected officials come and go all the time, but entrenched bureaucrats are here for life.

I wouldn't say that the profit motive is always a correcting mechanism, sometimes quite the opposite . Companies also make some absurdly short sighted decisions.

 

[SSSnail]

Daily Traffic: 10,000 - 25,000

Tappan Zee Bridge: 138,000

You're comparing a 2.4 km four lane bridge with a tenth the daily traffic to a 4.8 km eight lane bridge that's being built 15 years later.

Nice job.

You're focusing on traffic instead of the engineering feat it takes to build such bridge, and all the while ignoring the issue. Also different designs have different cost associated, come back to me with the complete cost when it's finished. Nice job.

Anyway, I was comparing the Millau bridge to the ONE span of the new cable mainstay Bay Bridge that took more than 20 years to build and billions of dollars over budget and is falling apart. That's the kind of corruption, ineptitude, lack of oversight, inefficiencies I was talking about.

 

[agent00f]

I wouldn't say that the profit motive is always a correcting mechanism, sometimes quite the opposite . Companies also make some absurdly short sighted decisions.

An absurd amount of money in the private sector is spent on PR/marketing type activity and assorted unnecessary bullshit.

 

[Mursilis]

I wouldn't say that the profit motive is always a correcting mechanism, sometimes quite the opposite . Companies also make some absurdly short sighted decisions.

But at least poorly-managed companies (eventually) die. Bureaucracies have a much longer lifespan.

 

[SSSnail]

The new Eastern Span was entirely a California project. Back in the day the state thought they could save a bunch of money by using foreign components and structure so they forwent seeking any federal funding (thereby avoiding "buy american" requirements)....which would have come with significant oversight and cost controls. Like a lot of things it got wrapped up in local politics and arguments and the result was a massive overspend for an inferior product. In short local pols, groups, and Caltrans screwed this project to high heaven. None of which would have been affected by who is president.

You want to improve cost effectiveness in infrastructure construction then I have two words for you: design build.

I am willing to bet that someone involving with this deal with close ties to manufacturers in China made off with some good money.

 

[Balt]

What's ironic about this topic is that much of the inefficiency stems from guarding against corruption. That's why there's endless discussion and a paper trail a mile long to get anything done, just to demonstrate everything is reasonably above board. That's why the worst gubmint corruption in the US is at the local level where the safeguards aren't as stringent. That's also why in contrast things get done in china but amidst a whirlwind of corruption.

Hah, tell me about it. Every time some idiot finds a vulnerability that lets them steal some money, new rules and processes have to be created that will apply to hundreds or thousands of people.

Our elected leaders in DC aren't nearly as worried about efficiency and cutting red tape as they would have you believe. Quite the opposite, in fact. Probably one of the quickest ways to lose your job in a federal agency is to get called before Congress and have to explain why there weren't measures in place to prevent some scumbag from committing some malfeasant act that no one had ever done before. That kind of attitude encourages CYA (covering your ass), not efficiency.

 

[Blackjack200]

You're focusing on traffic instead of the engineering feat it takes to build such bridge, and all the while ignoring the issue. Also different designs have different cost associated, come back to me with the complete cost when it's finished. Nice job.

I was simply pointing out that the bridges are in no way comparable, with the New Tappan Zee Bridge being a much larger project.

As for it's completion status, I chose it because I was responding to Hamburger Boy's idiotic claim that bridge repairs today cost more than an entire bridge construction in the 1930s. It's a bridge I live near, and happen to know about. They're three years into construction with no major cost overruns that I'm aware of.

Anyway, I was comparing the Millau bridge to the ONE span of the new cable mainstay Bay Bridge that took more than 20 years to build and billions of dollars over budget and is falling apart. That's the kind of corruption, ineptitude, lack of oversight, inefficiencies I was talking about.

Actually you posted the link to the Millau bridge in response to my comparison between the Brooklyn Bridge and the New TZ bridge. It's stupid to cherry pick a bad project in America and a good one in Europe and pretend it makes some kind of larger point about corruption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel#Construction

 

[K1052]

I am willing to bet that someone involving with this deal with close ties to manufacturers in China made off with some good money.

Conspiracy theories are not arguments.