so far behind in the hardware game

[rasczak]

hey all,

I'm going through the upgrade bug again (four years! whew!) I want to keep my current video card and will be recycling my hard drives, so i'm really just looking for a compatible motherboard/cpu, and of course ram. I will be running windows xp atm but my future does include vista/windows7. It's pretty much my meat and potatoes.

my current specs are as follows,

amd x2 3800+ (twas an upgrade last year from a 3200 winnie.)
1 gb pc 3200
dfi lan party ultra D
XFX 9800+
various amounts of hard drives
750watt psu.

thanks for the assistance!! I hope to buy in the next two weeks. (unless a new surfboard comes out that i can afford

Here's what I've looked up so far

Processors

Intel

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115055

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116072

AMD

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103274


Motherboards

I'm really not sure which motherboard to pair up with these processors.

 

[jandlecack]

Doesn't sound like you would need a quad or a lot of RAM. It would help to know what you actually plan on doing most; videogames?

 

[rasczak]

video games and movies, I push out to two monitors and use a linux vm so I need enough ooomph to power both oses at the same time. preferably be able to run three oses (windows xp, ubuntu linux and windows server 2k3) at once.

 

[jandlecack]

No real point going all out on an i7 system. Go with a budget quadcore like the one you listed (Q8xxx). Get a decent ASUS motherboard (P5Q), 2x2GB PC1066 memory (since the price differences to slower RAM are negligible).

What make is your power supply? With 750W that will be more than enough.

 

[rasczak]

sounds good to me. as for the power supply, I can't remember atm and i'm at work. something inside me say thermaltake though.

 

[RallyMaster]

Originally posted by: rasczak
video games and movies, I push out to two monitors and use a linux vm so I need enough ooomph to power both oses at the same time. preferably be able to run three oses (windows xp, ubuntu linux and windows server 2k3) at once.

AMD Phenom II 940 or the Core 2 Quad Q9400 would be your best bet. Dual cores will get bogged down very easily if you want to run multiple OSes simultaneously.

 

[rasczak]

ouch that's a bit pricey

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

How much of an impact does VT have on VM performance? The Intel Q8200 does not support VT, but the Q8400 does, and is only $3 more at Newegg. You could go cheaper by getting an AMD Phenom X3 710 for $119.

As far as motherboards go, it's tough to recommend any one brand. Asus, Biostar, Gigabyte, etc all have boards that cover the spectrum from "troublesome" to "really good". My own experience is that Biostar's "T" series motherboards are good, reliable, enthusiast models at affordable prices, but of course sure every make has it's fans.

 

[jandlecack]

Originally posted by: rasczak
ouch that's a bit pricey

Yeah, since you didn't wanna spend that much I wouldn't go for a Q9. That's reaching a bit deeper in your pockets.

However I didn't know the Q8200 didn't have Virtualization Tech. That's a no-go. But if the Q8400 does, then that's a much better idea.

 

[magreen]

The AMD Phenom II beats intel on price to performance in the budget quad sector right now, esp. when you factor in the hardware virtualization support that the phII gives. Take a look at anand's latest q8400 vs. PhII 940 review from a couple days ago.

 

[rasczak]

ok i will look into it

 

[magreen]

Ok, I just looked at Anand's article and they updated the conclusion for a 2nd time, saying intel confirmed that all q8400 chips do have VT, whereas not all q8300's have it. So the phII 940 doesn't have that advantage over the q8400, but it still seems to have a leg up in most things besides power consumption.

 

[rasczak]

bah, looks like it's too tight for me at this time. maybe i can find a deal for one of those two cores and the motherboard down the road. at this time it's just too far up there in price.

thanks again for the tips I really appreciate it. now i remember why i loved coming here in the first place (no thanks to ATOT :evil :thumbsup:

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

How about overclocking that x2 3800+, and adding more RAM? That should give you a nice boost.

 

[jandlecack]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
How about overclocking that x2 3800+, and adding more RAM? That should give you a nice boost.

No it won't. Not for the stuff he wants to do with it anyway. Even if you overclocked it another 2GHZ it couldn't compare with a Q8400, PHII 940 or better. More RAM, maybe, but there will still be a massive bottleneck from the CPU and the fact that it's DDR1 memory, in everything he does.

 

[Turbonium]

Your system isn't exactly slow or too dated. If I was you, I would throw in another GB of RAM (if that) and have it tide me over another couple of years.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: jandlecack

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
How about overclocking that x2 3800+, and adding more RAM? That should give you a nice boost.

No it won't. Not for the stuff he wants to do with it anyway. Even if you overclocked it another 2GHZ it couldn't compare with a Q8400, PHII 940 or better. More RAM, maybe, but there will still be a massive bottleneck from the CPU and the fact that it's DDR1 memory, in everything he does.

Yeah, I realize it won't compare with a newer CPU/mobo combo, but a cheap boost is a cheap boost. 1 GB of RAM is paltry for running VMs, IMO.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Get another GB of RAM and OC that puppy. That's your cheapest possible upgrade. Fact is, you gotta pay to play in the quad world, at least a certain amount. I rebuilt a S939 3800+ system for my wife and OCed it to 2.5 GHz, and she's very happy with it.

 

[jandlecack]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: jandlecack

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
How about overclocking that x2 3800+, and adding more RAM? That should give you a nice boost.

No it won't. Not for the stuff he wants to do with it anyway. Even if you overclocked it another 2GHZ it couldn't compare with a Q8400, PHII 940 or better. More RAM, maybe, but there will still be a massive bottleneck from the CPU and the fact that it's DDR1 memory, in everything he does.

Yeah, I realize it won't compare with a newer CPU/mobo combo, but a cheap boost is a cheap boost. 1 GB of RAM is paltry for running VMs, IMO.

I don't know. For virtualization I think core amount and clock-for-clock speed is very important, so is fast main memory. Of course if he's not doing anything overly intensive on his VMs, then he should be fine with that.

However, I don't know the pricing on DDR1 memory. He could be paying a lot for really old tech because of availability issues. Therefore I'm not so sure it'd be worthwhile in the long run.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: jandlecack

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: jandlecack

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
How about overclocking that x2 3800+, and adding more RAM? That should give you a nice boost.

No it won't. Not for the stuff he wants to do with it anyway. Even if you overclocked it another 2GHZ it couldn't compare with a Q8400, PHII 940 or better. More RAM, maybe, but there will still be a massive bottleneck from the CPU and the fact that it's DDR1 memory, in everything he does.

Yeah, I realize it won't compare with a newer CPU/mobo combo, but a cheap boost is a cheap boost. 1 GB of RAM is paltry for running VMs, IMO.

I don't know. For virtualization I think core amount and clock-for-clock speed is very important, so is fast main memory. Of course if he's not doing anything overly intensive on his VMs, then he should be fine with that.

However, I don't know the pricing on DDR1 memory. He could be paying a lot for really old tech because of availability issues. Therefore I'm not so sure it'd be worthwhile in the long run.

1 GB stick of DDR-400 runs $33/shipped at Newegg.

Do you know how much of a benefit Virtualization Technology is to VMs?

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
How much of an impact does VT have on VM performance? The Intel Q8200 does not support VT, but the Q8400 does, and is only $3 more at Newegg. You could go cheaper by getting an AMD Phenom X3 710 for $119.

As far as motherboards go, it's tough to recommend any one brand. Asus, Biostar, Gigabyte, etc all have boards that cover the spectrum from "troublesome" to "really good". My own experience is that Biostar's "T" series motherboards are good, reliable, enthusiast models at affordable prices, but of course sure every make has it's fans.

it isn't tough to recommend a brand, there is "rare problems with quick solutions" and "common problems with no support" and such...
Asus is #1, MSI and gigabyte give you more for less money, and an engrish full manual, other companies are generally behind them.
I typically go for a gigabyte or msi board because of the extra features compared to asus and how similar they are are in quality.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
How much of an impact does VT have on VM performance? The Intel Q8200 does not support VT, but the Q8400 does, and is only $3 more at Newegg. You could go cheaper by getting an AMD Phenom X3 710 for $119.

As far as motherboards go, it's tough to recommend any one brand. Asus, Biostar, Gigabyte, etc all have boards that cover the spectrum from "troublesome" to "really good". My own experience is that Biostar's "T" series motherboards are good, reliable, enthusiast models at affordable prices, but of course sure every make has it's fans.

it isn't tough to recommend a brand, there is "rare problems with quick solutions" and "common problems with no support" and such...
Asus is #1, MSI and gigabyte give you more for less money, and an engrish full manual, other companies are generally behind them.
I typically go for a gigabyte or msi board because of the extra features compared to asus and how similar they are are in quality.

That's the thing, I've had horrible experiences with Gigabyte, and too many failures with Asus. Biostar, for me, has been the best. Abit was always good, too, but they're... dead.

 

[taltamir]

OP, how tight is a tight budget? you want games and you want to run multiple oses via vm... if anyone needs a fast quad core and lots of ram it is you, and also a good video card for the games...

have you considered used hardware? I was looking into the Q8400 and Q8200... then I just went and got a Q9400 used from ebay at 165$, where I will be selling my Q6600 (they sell for about 130-140$) to help recoup costs. an advantage of lower power consumption helps.

usually buying on ebay is not a good idea due to it being overpriced, and new "just as fast" new hardware is being released, but this was a RARE situation with the CPU where it made sense (the Q8 series is just too cut down, and priced too high, the Q9 series is way overpriced)

 

[happy medium]

Why not grab a cheap used Q6600 ($150) and motherboard.

Gigabyte G41 65.00$.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128388

4gb G.Skill ram 60.00$ shipped

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231166

Good setup for 275.00$. A little more than the 270.00$ Q9550 cpu alone!

 

[jandlecack]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: jandlecack

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: jandlecack

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
How about overclocking that x2 3800+, and adding more RAM? That should give you a nice boost.

No it won't. Not for the stuff he wants to do with it anyway. Even if you overclocked it another 2GHZ it couldn't compare with a Q8400, PHII 940 or better. More RAM, maybe, but there will still be a massive bottleneck from the CPU and the fact that it's DDR1 memory, in everything he does.

Yeah, I realize it won't compare with a newer CPU/mobo combo, but a cheap boost is a cheap boost. 1 GB of RAM is paltry for running VMs, IMO.

I don't know. For virtualization I think core amount and clock-for-clock speed is very important, so is fast main memory. Of course if he's not doing anything overly intensive on his VMs, then he should be fine with that.

However, I don't know the pricing on DDR1 memory. He could be paying a lot for really old tech because of availability issues. Therefore I'm not so sure it'd be worthwhile in the long run.

1 GB stick of DDR-400 runs $33/shipped at Newegg.

Do you know how much of a benefit Virtualization Technology is to VMs?

IIRC There are some VMs that require it to begin with.