So, do you agree that we should bring back the death penalty?

[soulcougher73]

Ah, the "They are poor so they deserve it" style of punishment. What is with death penalty supporters and outlandish justifications. Just say that you want people to be executed because you are a spiteful human being and be done with it.

Funny i dont seem to remember talking about poor people. Im an equal opportunity death penalty supporter. Rich or poor it dont matter to me.

 

[kami333]

No system will ever be 100% perfect. Its a fallacy to think otherwise. Some innocents will always slip through the cracks from time to time. But they had their chance during the trial to present their case to their peers.

If you are willing to accept that some number of innocent people will be executed why even wait a year? Why not have the execution immediately after the trial?

 

[fskimospy]

If they are found guilty by their peers then what is the problem? They had a trial and the evidence suggests they did it and are found guilty. Give them a year to appeal and hope for some evidence that proves you didnt actually do it.

But yes id rather save tax payer money then by housing people who have been sentenced to death for decades.

No system will ever be 100% perfect. Its a fallacy to think otherwise. Some innocents will always slip through the cracks from time to time. But they had their chance during the trial to present their case to their peers.

Considering the number of people who have been exonerated while on death row even given our extensive system of appeals, I simply can't shrug off the whole 'to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs!' viewpoint when it comes to people's lives. Since the death penalty has been reinstated there have been around 1300 executions. Also during that time 140 people have been exonerated, and that's in a system that INCLUDES our extensive appeals process. If with all these safeguards we're still having an 11% failure rate, imagine how bad the rate will be when it's '1 year and then you die'. I'm guessing it will be 2-3 times that. I simply see no gain for society in that approach.

What's funny is that I bet your approach would lead to the complete abolition of the death penalty within 20 years. The sheer number of innocent people that would likely be executed would evoke such public revulsion that we would just abandon it altogether.

 

[Jhhnn]

Funny i dont seem to remember talking about poor people. Im an equal opportunity death penalty supporter. Rich or poor it dont matter to me.

It matters what kind of lawyer you'll get. Not many people can afford somebody like Johnnie Cochran, or even ones who are competent, either. The SCOTUS seems to draw the line at your lawyer actually being awake, a very comforting thought indeed-

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0603-07.htm

Your one year of appeals scenario is an escape to fantasy, btw, so we might as well deal with the facts. I know that's really, really hard, but you need to try it-

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

There are a lot better ways to spend taxpayer money than offing people, whether they're guilty or not. Hell- if the people of Texas gave up their penchant for revenge by homicide, they might get a tax cut.

 

[IronWing]

How many crimes are there that poor people simply don't have the means to commit that carry the death penalty? Tax fraud? Securities fraud? Environmental crimes? Gross negligence leading to worker deaths? Lying about the effects of various products/chemicals? The rich seem to have done well to make sure the death penalty doesn't apply to the types of crimes they stand to profit from.

 

[HeXen]

I don't think it would change anything even if you had public executions on the street other than keeping honest people honest. Many criminals are not all there mentally, their likely to commit a heinous crime regardless of what happens IF he/she gets caught.
In ancient times, they tortured criminals, had public executions...yet crime was still high

 

[CitizenKain]

Funny i dont seem to remember talking about poor people. Im an equal opportunity death penalty supporter. Rich or poor it dont matter to me.

Lets see..

But after that time, either someone isnt working hard enough for you or you are actually guilty.

Who is more likely to afford someone that can work harder for you? A rich guy? Or someone who has an overworked public defender? Or does everyone get a fantastic lawyer even if they can't afford it. But since you want to cut costs, I guess that isn't going to happen.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

All of them.

They're not subjected to hard labor. They are fed three times a day, have time to read, watch TV, fitness, etc... When they're sick, free healthcare.

The problem with the death penalty in California is that as soon as a convict is on death row, they're separated from population, so they don't even have to deal with the general population. So, they're set for a long healthy life ahead of them. And all criminals know this, that's why they don't care.

I will give you a very good example of an effective government controlling their criminals - see Singapore. Check their crime rates, and get back to me.

The deterrent meme has been dead for a long time. I didnt think folks still bought into that.

Singapore....excellent example of a free society. Who knew quasi police states had such low crime rates?

 

[Jhhnn]

Other than conscience, the chief deterrent to crime is the perceived likelihood of getting caught, not the severity of punishment.

Death penalty states actually have a higher murder rate, so go figure.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/det...alty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

 

[shira]

LOL, I love internet-lectuals, thanks for the link. So, basically I was correct when I said you don't know anything about Singapore.

When they hang that Vietnamese-Australian guy that was running drugs through their country, I was there. Just got back from there last week as well.

Anyways, speaking of China, other issues aside, how do they compare with the rest of the "civilized" world as far as violent crimes are concerned? You mentioned China, I didn't. I mentioned Singapore, because they're anything but China, and their policies on crimes work.

Singapore has no freedom of association. Speech is strictly limited, and there's no freedom of public assembly. Oh, and private sexual acts by gays are punishable by up to two years in prison.

On Freedom House's scale, where 1 indicates the greatest freedom, Singapore is rated a 4.5 - partly free.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2011/singapore

But keep holding up Singapore as an example of a wonderful country.

 

[SSSnail]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And you are confusing your worth as a human being with being wealthy.

That was as joke, dim one.

Singapore has no freedom of association. Speech is strictly limited, and there's no freedom of public assembly. Oh, and private sexual acts by gays are punishable by up to two years in prison.

On Freedom House's scale, where 1 indicates the greatest freedom, Singapore is rated a 4.5 - partly free.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2011/singapore

But keep holding up Singapore as an example of a wonderful country.

They're actually freer than the other so called "free" society, despite what you read, or link. That, and they excel at other fronts - economics, education, healthcare, etc... which makes your other "free" society (which are not, really if you dig down) seems not that desirable.

There are a lot more gays there now, than I last visited. I was actually very surprise, because they are openly gay.

Let me ask you something, have you been to Singapore? Or just read about it?

Keep touting perceived "freedom", it's working so well for Europe (roflmao).

 

[SSSnail]

Look, there are many faults in the folds of our legal system, and I understand that.

It starts with the liberal treatment of inmates, meaning they don't suffer when they're incarcerated. Therefore, they couldn't give two shits less, if they're caught.

Rehabilitation doesn't work, as proven time and time again. The entire machination of the prison system exist to give more power, and pay to the prison guard union, everyone knows this.

All I'm saying is that if a person should be found guilty of crimes so heinous that deserve a death penalty, that person should be put away quickly, and not further waste anymore needed resources that we don't have.

 

[soundforbjt]

I've been to Singapore. It's illegal to bring chewing gum into there. It's nice to visit but nutty on it's laws.

 

[shira]

That was as joke, dim one.


They're actually freer than the other so called "free" society, despite what you read, or link. That, and they excel at other fronts - economics, education, healthcare, etc... which makes your other "free" society (which are not, really if you dig down) seems not that desirable.

There are a lot more gays there now, than I last visited. I was actually very surprise, because they are openly gay.

Let me ask you something, have you been to Singapore? Or just read about it?

Keep touting perceived "freedom", it's working so well for Europe (roflmao).

Freedom House is an independent, non-partisan organization that evaluates the freedom of countries based on a comprehensive set of standards. I will accept their analysis of what Singapore is like over your or anyone else's limited, anecdotal accounts. The fact that people can openly state that they are gay doesn't contradict the fact that there are laws in place that punish private sexual acts. And since there's no truly independent free press there, and there are extremely punitive slander laws that are used to suppress speech critical of the government, how can you possibly know how "free" Singapore is?

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Look, there are many faults in the folds of our legal system, and I understand that.

It starts with the liberal treatment of inmates, meaning they don't suffer when they're incarcerated. Therefore, they couldn't give two shits less, if they're caught.

Rehabilitation doesn't work, as proven time and time again. The entire machination of the prison system exist to give more power, and pay to the prison guard union, everyone knows this.

All I'm saying is that if a person should be found guilty of crimes so heinous that deserve a death penalty, that person should be put away quickly, and not further waste anymore needed resources that we don't have.

Liberals....blah blah blah.....liberals....blah blah .....blah ...liberals.

There is no data to support your pet theories, but keep spouting them, maybe they improve with age.

 

[Lemon law]

Liberals....blah blah blah.....liberals....blah blah .....blah ...liberals.

There is no data to support your pet theories, but keep spouting them, maybe they improve with age.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------EEarth to MooseNSquirrel, of course such ideas improve with age, just like fine whine and other big lies.

 

[Jhhnn]

Look, there are many faults in the folds of our legal system, and I understand that.

It starts with the liberal treatment of inmates, meaning they don't suffer when they're incarcerated. Therefore, they couldn't give two shits less, if they're caught.

Rehabilitation doesn't work, as proven time and time again. The entire machination of the prison system exist to give more power, and pay to the prison guard union, everyone knows this.

All I'm saying is that if a person should be found guilty of crimes so heinous that deserve a death penalty, that person should be put away quickly, and not further waste anymore needed resources that we don't have.

All you're saying is that you suffer from delusions on multiple levels.

 

[thraashman]

Look, there are many faults in the folds of our legal system, and I understand that.

It starts with the liberal treatment of inmates, meaning they don't suffer when they're incarcerated. Therefore, they couldn't give two shits less, if they're caught.

Rehabilitation doesn't work, as proven time and time again. The entire machination of the prison system exist to give more power, and pay to the prison guard union, everyone knows this.

All I'm saying is that if a person should be found guilty of crimes so heinous that deserve a death penalty, that person should be put away quickly, and not further waste anymore needed resources that we don't have.

Actually, countries that focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment have a much lower recidivism rate than the US. Quite frankly, your idea that the "liberal treatment of inmates" makes them more likely to commit new crimes has been proven wrong by studies.

 

[SSSnail]

Oh, no data to support my "theory"? Really? Nothing could be further from the truth, and it seems that some of you are so far buried up your biased behinds to see reality if it hits you on your foreheads.

Possibly why I've never ventured into this sub-forum, save for the mod's thread move. Carrrrrry on.

On a final note, the reason why the US's prison system doesn't work is due to lack of punishment. Take that however you want, with your unicorn dust and tree hugging fests.

Feel free to include your "studies" in your argument though.

 

[SSSnail]

I've been to Singapore. It's illegal to bring chewing gum into there. It's nice to visit but nutty on it's laws.

Chewing gum after done, if not disposed off properly, cause a lot of nuisance in cleaning up. People, for the most part, won't act appropriately if not sternly governed (see under tables of class benches, seatings, etc in the US). I don't see anything wrong with telling people to not do something that most fail to abide by.

I've not only been to Singapore, but spent time there as an expat, and have worked with various government agencies. I am somewhat adept at their laws, way of life, and seeing how things are from an insider as well as outsider perspective.

My opinion is that while they have flaws, their way of doing things are MUCH better than a lot of other countries, or unions that are saying they're "better" than anyone else. If you disagree with me, reality says otherwise.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Oh, no data to support my "theory"? Really? Nothing could be further from the truth, and it seems that some of you are so far buried up your biased behinds to see reality if it hits you on your foreheads.

Possibly why I've never ventured into this sub-forum, save for the mod's thread move. Carrrrrry on.

On a final note, the reason why the US's prison system doesn't work is due to lack of punishment. Take that however you want, with your unicorn dust and tree hugging fests.

Feel free to include your "studies" in your argument though.

Don't you love someone who throws around the word "bias" but uses words like "liberal" and "tree huggers"?

Let me be the first to say...

Links or it never happened.

 

[blankslate]

There are people who commit crimes so heinous that they do deserve to die. And in a few cases we do know without a doubt who it is.

Unfortunately many times we don't.

There have been cases of people who looked like they were guilty based on the evidence available at the time who have been released years later due to new DNA evidence.

Given the above it's likely that there are people on death row who are actually innocent.


The question is... What is an acceptable percentage of people who are executed being wrongfully put to death?

 

[rchiu]

There are people who commit crimes so heinous that they do deserve to die. And in a few cases we do know without a doubt who it is.

Unfortunately many times we don't.

There have been cases of people who looked like they were guilty based on the evidence available at the time who have been released years later due to new DNA evidence.

Given the above it's likely that there are people on death row who are actually innocent.


The question is... What is an acceptable percentage of people who are executed being wrongfully put to death?

What about death penalty for those heinous crime and only those without a doubt who did it? Forgive the cliche but why not make death penalty legal but rare, why must some people talk of abolishing it so that even the person committing worse possible crime, with absolutely no doubt that the person committed the crime, can live the rest of his/her live on tax payer's dime?

 

[Doppel]

No, it is a barbaric anachronism that in time will see itself totally expunged from the US as well.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh, no data to support my "theory"? Really? Nothing could be further from the truth, and it seems that some of you are so far buried up your biased behinds to see reality if it hits you on your foreheads.

Possibly why I've never ventured into this sub-forum, save for the mod's thread move. Carrrrrry on.

On a final note, the reason why the US's prison system doesn't work is due to lack of punishment. Take that however you want, with your unicorn dust and tree hugging fests.

Feel free to include your "studies" in your argument though.

Well if nothing could be further from the truth then providing that data should be easy for you to do! We will be waiting.