So did Vista negate the usefulness of soundcards?
- Thread starter jdoggg12
- Start date
Vista only removed the pathway between audio hardware (or drivers) and DirectSound. Therefore, DirectSound can no longer be done using hardware buffers, but is emulated in software.
However, ASIO and OpenAL can be still be done in hardware if the hardware and drivers support it, OpenAL being more suitable of the two for consumer PC audio, including gaming. The problem is that most applications (including games) are highly DirectSound oriented. So its not a simple matter of writing OpenAL drivers because applications still need to be written for OpenAL API.
Creative is writing what basically amounts to an ICD that will intercept DirectSound calls and convert them to OpenAL calls, which can then exploit hardware acceleration, but at a cost of increased processing overhead that probably will not amount to a net benefit except in the most EA-intensive games.
At any rate, PC audio will eventually go the way of CPU-GPU convergence, with discrete specialized ASICs being rendered obsolete by massively multi-threaded 'many core' processors that will have enough raw processing power and bandwidth on tap to make everything a software problem, anyway.
However, ASIO and OpenAL can be still be done in hardware if the hardware and drivers support it, OpenAL being more suitable of the two for consumer PC audio, including gaming. The problem is that most applications (including games) are highly DirectSound oriented. So its not a simple matter of writing OpenAL drivers because applications still need to be written for OpenAL API.
Creative is writing what basically amounts to an ICD that will intercept DirectSound calls and convert them to OpenAL calls, which can then exploit hardware acceleration, but at a cost of increased processing overhead that probably will not amount to a net benefit except in the most EA-intensive games.
At any rate, PC audio will eventually go the way of CPU-GPU convergence, with discrete specialized ASICs being rendered obsolete by massively multi-threaded 'many core' processors that will have enough raw processing power and bandwidth on tap to make everything a software problem, anyway.
postmortemIA
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Puffnstuff
Lifer
- Mar 9, 2005
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I've got an x-fi fatal1ty (now called champion) and it took creative over a year to get functional vista drivers out. With x-audio2 on the horizon things will change yet again so I'd hold off on any soundcard purchases until it's been finalized. Since vista handles sound so differently I've noticed that my cores do more work when sound related activities are in use like listening to music versus before when the soundcard hardware could shoulder all the load by itself.
0roo0roo
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its a more stable solution. no longer will the soundcard potentially bring down the system
game developers can tweak their 3d sound and constantly improve it, and be sure it will run on any system, not just creatives.
its a good thing. its what all the cpu cores are for
most of us have 2 cores now, even macs soon 4! in a few years...who knows. what kind of cr@p cpu were u running in 01(birth of xp)?
games like crysis already ditch stuff like eax
game developers can tweak their 3d sound and constantly improve it, and be sure it will run on any system, not just creatives.
its a good thing. its what all the cpu cores are for
most of us have 2 cores now, even macs soon 4! in a few years...who knows. what kind of cr@p cpu were u running in 01(birth of xp)?games like crysis already ditch stuff like eax
postmortemIA
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- Jul 11, 2006
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Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its a more stable solution. no longer will the soundcard potentially bring down the system
game developers can tweak their 3d sound and constantly improve it, and be sure it will run on any system, not just creatives.
its a good thing. its what all the cpu cores are for
games like crysis already ditch stuff like eax
yet another who doesn't understand that sound isn't software, it is analog thing, why do audiophiles love tubes from 60s? The $2 bulk garbage from RealTek is ignorant solution.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
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i'm talking 3d sound decoding, not audiophile quality.
even if vista gets its way you could still get a simplified high quality sound card i'm sure. frankly when on board sound reaches a certain point that will be the only market niche left for sound cards. creative eax is hardly necessary for audiophiles.
even if vista gets its way you could still get a simplified high quality sound card i'm sure. frankly when on board sound reaches a certain point that will be the only market niche left for sound cards. creative eax is hardly necessary for audiophiles.
Analog is the "last mile" of computer audio. The changes in Vista, and all the magic used by game developers, are on the digital processing side.
The preference for tubes today is silly, and completely mooted by modern DSP tech. Much like many of the ideas put forward by "audiophiles".
The magic juice of Creative's ultra-expensive cards wasn't ever really in the DACs. It was in the extra processing they could do in hardware. And Vista does not play nice with that functionality.
Creative's cards are still better than onboard, simply because they use better DACs. But after the changes in Vista, the difference between Creative's top-end $270 X-Fi and the $30 Audigy SE that I just bought is... not as significant as it once was.
This is very very true. Creative's DACs and OPAMPs were never terribly impressive. You've got to step up to something from the likes of E-MU (their professional division), M-Audio, or HT Omega / Auzentech to get audiophile quality DACs and OPAMPs (and sometimes socket mounted components so you can mix 'n' match!
)If you go digital out to a receiver it doesn't matter - but for those of us with analog sound systems (and picky ears) - having a good sound card is still a VERY important component of a computer - regardless of Vista or not
~Misfit
"The preference for tubes today is silly, and completely mooted by modern DSP tech. Much like many of the ideas put forward by "audiophiles". "
Small correction: Tubes do not matter on the playback side. They are still important when recording, though they are mostly used in an external preamp.
Small correction: Tubes do not matter on the playback side. They are still important when recording, though they are mostly used in an external preamp.
The preference for old tubes today is based on the way the sound is distorted. Tubes don't produce better sound than current silicon-based amplifiers - but old tubes sound better for some (new tubes are much more linear than the old ones, and some of that distortion is reduced)
Setting the analog sound producing equipment away from the rest of the components on the mainboard helps against noise. There was some mainboard from Asus with integrated sound, which had its DACs on a daughterboard in order to reduce noise (electrical from all the mainboard components).
Also, Creative Audigy sound cards have "flatter" power curves depending on frequency than (by example) the Creative Live cards (first edition of ones and the others). Onboards might be even worse.
One more thing - I have a mainboard with Sis chipset - ECS K5S7A - and the total volume level of the onboard audio was very low (active speakers at max would bring almost decent sound level). The Audigy card sounded much stronger (the same speakers on a Gigabyte integrated sound have the volume all the way to 10-15%)
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