So Called Beach Shelling... false

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Text

on CNN now too

Provokes my memory of the "Jenin Massacre" that never happened... How often these stories are sensationalized when they are released only to be found false. And then the retraction is so small, that the propaganda damage is already done... most people believe that Israel shelled and killed innocent women and children playing on the beach... even though it didnt happen.

I find the concept very disturbing.

 

couppi

Banned
Jan 28, 2006
82
0
0
It happens all the time in the media.
Bush vowed to remove the person who leaked Valerie Plame's CIA status. Months later, we find that Bush may have authorized the leak himself.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
It's funny, because Israel already expressed their apologies.

Just goes to show who the real enemy is here. Those that would use its own denizens' tragic deaths as a rallying cry against a foreign nation that didn't cause them...

Oh. Hey.
 

broon

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2002
3,660
1
81
I heard on the radio this morning that there were no other mines on the beach, that they can't account for one of the six shells, and that shrapnal matches that of a shell.

I'm not taking sides...just offering another side that the news is reporting.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: broon
I heard on the radio this morning that there were no other mines on the beach, that they can't account for one of the six shells, and that shrapnal matches that of a shell.

I'm not taking sides...just offering another side that the news is reporting.

can you provide some kind of a source? What radio station were you listening to?

-Max
 

broon

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2002
3,660
1
81
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: broon
I heard on the radio this morning that there were no other mines on the beach, that they can't account for one of the six shells, and that shrapnal matches that of a shell.

I'm not taking sides...just offering another side that the news is reporting.

can you provide some kind of a source? What radio station were you listening to?

-Max

A liberal one...NPR. I know, I know. Again...I'm not taking it as fact. I'm only offering another point of view that the news is putting out.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: Aisengard
It's funny, because Israel already expressed their apologies.

Just goes to show who the real enemy is here. Those that would use its own denizens' tragic deaths as a rallying cry against a foreign nation that didn't cause them...

Oh. Hey.

Like the Kuwaite babies being thrown out of incubators by invading Iraq soldiers?
Do we need a list of propaganda, we are expected to swallow whole?
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: broon
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: broon
I heard on the radio this morning that there were no other mines on the beach, that they can't account for one of the six shells, and that shrapnal matches that of a shell.

I'm not taking sides...just offering another side that the news is reporting.

can you provide some kind of a source? What radio station were you listening to?

-Max

A liberal one...NPR. I know, I know. Again...I'm not taking it as fact. I'm only offering another point of view that the news is putting out.
It is good to get info from all sides, it's not like the Israeli military is an ubaised source either. I'm curious about the evidence claimed on NPR though, anyone else heard any more about that?
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: broon
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: broon
I heard on the radio this morning that there were no other mines on the beach, that they can't account for one of the six shells, and that shrapnal matches that of a shell.

I'm not taking sides...just offering another side that the news is reporting.

can you provide some kind of a source? What radio station were you listening to?

-Max

A liberal one...NPR. I know, I know. Again...I'm not taking it as fact. I'm only offering another point of view that the news is putting out.

Yeah I'm more than happy to hear all points of view... it's just hard to believe the IDF and NPR could have THAT level of conflicting data... IDF report explicitly says no Naval shell shrapnel...
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
The NPR could be based on accounts/releases from the Palestinians.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
All I heard on NPR this morning was that Israel had just killed MORE Palestinians (although it was because they destroyed a truck carrying rockets that were headed towards a rocket firing facility, to be fired at Israel) and just the mention of "Israeli military forces will release its investigation on the killing of a Palestinian family on the beach several days ago."

Absolutely no mention of the land mines Palestinian forces placed there, no mention of anything. They'll probably have a nice quip in their at 2:00 today (when no one is listening) about how it was the Palestinian's fault, and never mention it again.

I like NPR, but I don't agree with their Palestinian apologist stance on this one.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
I'm sure we'll hear something from Daniel Shore about it though :D

I listen to NPR every day, I like their programming, especially regarding supreme court rulings.

But their leftist leanings do shine through...
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: broon
I heard on the radio this morning that there were no other mines on the beach, that they can't account for one of the six shells, and that shrapnal matches that of a shell.

I'm not taking sides...just offering another side that the news is reporting.

YOU are offering nothing without links to back up what you have said...
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
BBC
And in additional news, Hamas declares the truce over. Rockets away.

Israel went after rocket launchers positioned along the beach (blessed by Hamas radicals?)


Let the cleanup begin.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
From the article you linked:
Mr Abbas declared three days of Palestinian mourning following the deaths, which included five people from the same family, a man and one of his wives and three of his children.

They were having a picnic on the beach when the explosion happened. The children's seven-year-old sister had been swimming in the sea at the time and survived. Twenty people were wounded.
Are you excited by the prospect that this tragedy will lead to more voilence?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
From the article you linked:
Mr Abbas declared three days of Palestinian mourning following the deaths, which included five people from the same family, a man and one of his wives and three of his children.

They were having a picnic on the beach when the explosion happened. The children's seven-year-old sister had been swimming in the sea at the time and survived. Twenty people were wounded.
Are you excited by the prospect that this tragedy will lead to more voilence?

That a family was injured is not exciting.

That Abbas did not denounce Israel is good news.

That Hamas is starting to show their true colors is refreshing.

As long as people want to look at Hamas through rose-colored glasses and apologize for their actions; then the problem will not go away.

Maybe if the Palestinian people realized that they jumped from the frying pan into the fire, they will get rid of Hamas and create a government that will actually want to solve the problem, not be a part of it.

 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,480
7,533
136
If all you have are ?biased? sources of info on this matter, I ask how are you to determine the truth? If not for merely siding with whatever side you?re more comfortable with.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm sure we'll hear something from Daniel Shore about it though :D

I listen to NPR every day, I like their programming, especially regarding supreme court rulings.

But their leftist leanings do shine through...

It's true. But I will say that at least it's well-written.

I tried reading the Boston Herald, a huge GOP rag IMO, and it was one of the worst newspapers I've ever read. Honestly, it read like a bunch of college Republicans who think they're 'too good' for those smarmy, leftist-leaning English classes.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm sure we'll hear something from Daniel Shore about it though :D

I listen to NPR every day, I like their programming, especially regarding supreme court rulings.

But their leftist leanings do shine through...

It's true. But I will say that at least it's well-written.

I tried reading the Boston Herald, a huge GOP rag IMO, and it was one of the worst newspapers I've ever read. Honestly, it read like a bunch of college Republicans who think they're 'too good' for those smarmy, leftist-leaning English classes.

Counterbalance to the Globe

 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
That Hamas is starting to show their true colors is refreshing.

As long as people want to look at Hamas through rose-colored glasses and apologize for their actions; then the problem will not go away.

Maybe if the Palestinian people realized that they jumped from the frying pan into the fire, they will get rid of Hamas and create a government that will actually want to solve the problem, not be a part of it.

That sentiment may be more properly directed at Israel if the orignal story holds true, but I take it you are already firmly vested in rooting for one side.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm sure we'll hear something from Daniel Shore about it though :D

I listen to NPR every day, I like their programming, especially regarding supreme court rulings.

But their leftist leanings do shine through...

It's true. But I will say that at least it's well-written.

I tried reading the Boston Herald, a huge GOP rag IMO, and it was one of the worst newspapers I've ever read. Honestly, it read like a bunch of college Republicans who think they're 'too good' for those smarmy, leftist-leaning English classes.

Counterbalance to the Globe

Haha, if you mean quality balance too. The Globe is an actual newspaper, the Herald they give out for free at the subway.

That sentiment may be more properly directed at Israel if the orignal story holds true, but I take it you are already firmly vested in rooting for one side.

Why should we believe the Palestinian's story? The 'shelling' was at the wrong time and the wrong place. There were Palestinian mines that they quickly removed after the incident. Much of the shrapnel was not consistent with an Israeli artillary shell.

The Palestinians have done this before in 2002. They have very little credibility when it comes to this.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article994070.ece

Published on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 by the Independent / UK
Revealed: the Shrapnel Evidence That Points to Israel's Guilt
by Donald Macintyre

Israel has dismissed continuing calls for an independent international inquiry into the beachfront explosion which killed seven members of a Palestinian family in Gaza last Friday after its own internal military investigation decided it was not responsible for the blast.

As the military investigation team insisted that artillery fire had stopped by the time the explosion occurred and suggested it had been caused by a bomb planted in the sand, Amir Peretz, the Defence Minister, declared: " The accumulating evidence proves that this incident was not due to Israeli forces."

But the official interpretation was strongly challenged by a former Pentagon battle damage expert who has surveyed the scene of the beach explosion. He said yesterday that "all the evidence points" to a 155mm Israeli land-based artillery shell as its cause.

Marc Garlasco, who worked in war zones including Iraq and Kosovo during his seven-year stint in the US Department of Defence, called for an independent investigation into the killings after concluding that shell fragments and shrapnel from the site, the size and distribution of the craters on the beach, and the type of injuries sustained by the victims made Israeli shelling easily the likeliest cause.

His assessment came as at least another seven civilians, including two children, as well as two Islamic Jihad militants, were killed in a double Israeli missile strike on a VW van in the densely populated Zeitoun district of Gaza City yesterday. The two children were hit at a nearby house by flying shrapnel and the civilian dead included three medical workers from a nearby children's hospital who rushed to help after hearing the first explosion.

Israel said the militants had been on their way to launch Katyusha rockets which have a much longer range than the Qassam rockets normally fired from Gaza into Israel. One of the two dead Islamic Jihad militants was Hamoud Wadiya, described as the top rocket launcher in the faction. Mr Peretz said before the strike that Israel was resuming operations "to protect the citizens of Israel" after a pause caused by what he had acknowledged had been "the international storm" over the civilian deaths at the Beit Lahia beach last Friday.

The debate over the beach explosion is unlikely to die down however. Mr Garlasco who is now the senior military analyst for Human Rights Watch, said yesterday: "Of course I can't be completely conclusive but all the evidence points to its being a 155mm Israeli shell which killed the Palestinians on the beach."

Mr Garlasco said that most of the serious injuries of the victims in the Gaza hospitals that he had visited were to the torsos and heads, which were inconsistent with a land mine or of a bomb embedded in the sand. "If this had been a landmine I would have expected to see serious leg injuries," he said. Mr Garlasco said that while he could not rule out the theoretical possibility that Palestinian militants had rigged up an unexploded 155mm shell to make an explosive device of their own, that too would have normally produced many more severe leg injuries.

Mr Garlasco produced a four to five-inch, mainly blackened shell fragment which he collected about 100 yards from the scene of the explosion and in which the figures 55 and the letters "mm" are clearly discernible. While acknowledging that this was not itself definite proof that the shell had killed the Palestinians he said some fragments and shrapnel which the Palestinian police explosives department say they took from the scene where the victims were killed were definitely from a 155mm shell.

Mr Garlasco who accompanied a small group of journalists to the Beit Lahia beach, pointed to three separate craters, each covered in a whitish powder, which he said were fresh, one of which was at the spot where witnesses agree the fatal blast occurred, and the two others separated it from it by about 120 and 250 yards. Mr Garlasco added: "It would be a really ridiculous coincidence if there is active shelling and then suddenly an IED [improvised explosive device] goes off."

The military have admitted firing earlier in the area but now say that the explosion occurred between 4.47 and 5.10pm, when it says firing had stopped. An ambulance driver from the nearby al-Awda hospital, Khaled Abu Sada, said that he first took a call about the emergency at 4.50pm.

The military did not explicitly repeat claims in earlier leaks that Hamas had planted the device or say whether it was a dud shell. It says that shrapnel taken from the bodies of victims being treated in Israeli hospitals was not from a 150mm shell. But Mr Garlasco said that copper-lined shrapnel taken from two injured girls who had been in a car at the time of the blast and from the car itself were consistent with such a shell fired by a M109 howitzer.

Mr Garlasco ruled out the possibility that the shells were naval, as originally thought, on the grounds that they were too large to be fired from Israeli navy coastal vessels.

© 2006 Independent News and Media Limited

back to you israel
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
He rules out that is was a Naval shelling, yet that is what Israel did from gunboats.

Therefore where did the 155mm shells come from?
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
He rules out that is was a Naval shelling, yet that is what Israel did from gunboats.

Therefore where did the 155mm shells come from?

ermm.. the M109 howitzers hamas has in the area ofcorse:roll: