So, at what point would you participate in a public raid?

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel

Originally posted by: Duddy
No way dude, AIG is weaker. Sure it was easy to raid the government back in the day. Kinda...

But now, you have to make sure you have the military behind you. Or else they will kill you with their boom sticks.

We need healers. Lot of healers. If we do enough DPS we should be ok as long as the healers can keep up.

Do we have enough mana potions though?

LEEEEERROOOOOYYYYYY JEEEENNNNKINNNNSSS!!!!

Originally posted by: Queasy
Oh for fuck's sake. Go rampage against the feds, congress, etc. They are the ones that took your money and gave it to AIG in the first place. If they had simply let AIG go bankrupt, the contracts that AIG were lawfully required to uphold would have been null and void.

But no...let's ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians fucking everything up. Let's just RAWR!!! POPULOUS OUTRAGE!!! some more.

Yes, this would be preferable. Time for some harsher term limits, yes?

National Pi Day.....can we start with those idiots first?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Ok I just read what happened. I don't ever watch the news, so this stuff always catches up to me later.

What the fuck? Is the whole company rotten to the core or what? Does anyone working for AIG even pay lip service to any sort of business model or career? What's wrong with a company that could make it self destruct and then pay the people responsible for it? Fucking lunacy.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Duddy

Originally posted by: child of wonder
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

* Thomas Jefferson, Letter to William Stevens Smith (November 13, 1787), quoted in Padover's Jefferson On Democracy

Wow, I have never seen that quote. That is perfect.

reading comprehension fail?

this quote is calling the mob (i.e. you) misinformed.

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

Get the fvck out of here

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

This whole thing is very amusing to those of us outside of USA. You people get positively fucked in the ass by your government and large corporations. Your money is stolen from you to line the pockets of the wealthy. And then the guy who wants to do something about it gets mocked. You people are pathetic. You should be doing something. You're teaching your government and large corporations that it's just okay to steal your money with impunity.

Originally posted by: EKKC
as i've told many others, you don't give money to a crackwhore and expect her not to buy crack. that's just plain dumb. and that's exactly what our government did

Excellent!

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Oh for fuck's sake. Go rampage against the feds, congress, etc. They are the ones that took your money and gave it to AIG in the first place. If they had simply let AIG go bankrupt, the contracts that AIG were lawfully required to uphold would have been null and void.

But no...let's ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians fucking everything up. Let's just RAWR!!! POPULOUS OUTRAGE!!! some more.

Please elaborate on the ramifications of AIG going under. If you have time, maybe a little wright up on GM too.

 

[Gothgar]

yeah, pretty fucking stupid

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Queasy
Oh for fuck's sake. Go rampage against the feds, congress, etc. They are the ones that took your money and gave it to AIG in the first place. If they had simply let AIG go bankrupt, the contracts that AIG were lawfully required to uphold would have been null and void.

But no...let's ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians fucking everything up. Let's just RAWR!!! POPULOUS OUTRAGE!!! some more.

Please elaborate on the ramifications of AIG going under. If you have time, maybe a little wright up on GM too.

"Going under" and bankruptcy are two different things. Going bankrupt means reorganizing your debt load with your creditors, reorganizing your the company, and renegotiating contracts...like with executives...or unions.

Still, the main point of my post is that the anger over AIG is misplaced. The bonuses are just a miniscule proportion of the total amount of bailout funds given to the company. It's funny how people can get so enraged over a mere million dollars or so spread out across a few execs after the trillions of dollars of our tax money has been wasted by the government...the politicians that were had their hands all over this mess are the ones calling the shots...and they show no signs of stopping...

Oh, and to prove my point, that piece of shit stimulus bill that Obama championed had a provision inserted into it by Dodd that protected bonuses like the ones AIG got.

?(iii) The prohibition required under clause (i) shall not be construed to prohibit any bonus payment required to be paid pursuant to a writte employment contract executed on or before February 11, 2009, as such valid employment contracts are determined by the Secretary or the designee of the Secretary.?

This provision provides an exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on prior to Feb 11, 2009. The same ones Obama went kabuki theater on.

So, remember kids....every member of the Congress and Senate and the President that signed the bill essentially voted to protect AIG's bonuses...

 

[oiprocs]

If you really want to get them back, why don't you suggest that everyone start packing their bags and leave for....Canada?

The US is powerful because we the people make it so. If we the people are in some other country, the US is no longer powerful.

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Queasy
Oh for fuck's sake. Go rampage against the feds, congress, etc. They are the ones that took your money and gave it to AIG in the first place. If they had simply let AIG go bankrupt, the contracts that AIG were lawfully required to uphold would have been null and void.

But no...let's ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians fucking everything up. Let's just RAWR!!! POPULOUS OUTRAGE!!! some more.

Please elaborate on the ramifications of AIG going under. If you have time, maybe a little wright up on GM too.

"Going under" and bankruptcy are two different things. Going bankrupt means reorganizing your debt load with your creditors, reorganizing your the company, and renegotiating contracts...like with executives...or unions.

Still, the main point of my post is that the anger over AIG is misplaced. The bonuses are just a miniscule proportion of the total amount of bailout funds given to the company. It's funny how people can get so enraged over a mere million dollars or so spread out across a few execs after the trillions of dollars of our tax money has been wasted by the government...the politicians that were had their hands all over this mess are the ones calling the shots...and they show no signs of stopping...

When the #1 goes bankrupt, unfortunately it isn't that easy, but anyway.

While the $160+- million is minuscule compared to all the bailout money, the comparison really doesn't fly. The fact that the government is spending incredible amount of money on bailouts has generally been accepted by the public as somewhat necessary (debatable).
So coping with the bailouts is part of life right now. The ridiculous utilization of the funds is not.

They are getting bonuses for what exactly? For being involved in totally jacking the company? They are lucky (hardly) for even having "jobs." The public should expect a little better utilization of these funds than is actually happening. That is obviously too hard for these companies to accomplish.

Though to support your point, the money should have come with many more strings attached. Leave it to government to be so incompetent as to expect big business to do "the right thing", and not raid the coffers as it has done continuously for years.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Though to support your point, the money should have come with many more strings attached. Leave it to government to be so incompetent as to expect big business to do "the right thing", and not raid the coffers as it has done continuously for years.

See my post above that I updated. Never mistake incompetence for what is easily malfeasance and corruption. Dodd inserted the provision that protected AIG's bonuses. Dodd and Obama were #1 and #2 in receiving campaign contributions from AIG in 2008 alone...

They knew these bonuses were coming months ago and instead of making the provisions of the bailout stricter...they put in a loophole for bonuses.

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SampSon
Though to support your point, the money should have come with many more strings attached. Leave it to government to be so incompetent as to expect big business to do "the right thing", and not raid the coffers as it has done continuously for years.

See my post above that I updated. Never mistake incompetence for what is easily malfeasance and corruption. Dodd inserted the provision that protected AIG's bonuses. Dodd and Obama were #1 and #2 in receiving campaign contributions from AIG in 2008 alone...

They knew these bonuses were coming months ago and instead of making the provisions of the bailout stricter...they put in a loophole for bonuses.

Yea I was listening to talk radio earlier today and heard about that. Though as far as I remember the issue of bonuses has been known since last fall.

Around the same time, Congress and Obama's team were passing up an opportunity to put in place strict laws to revoke bonuses from recipients of the $700 billion Wall Street bailout. In February, the Senate voted to add such a proposal to the economic recovery bill that cleared Congress, but in final closed-door talks on the measure, that provision was dropped in favor of limits that affect only future payments.

"There was a lot of lobbying against it and it died," said Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., who proposed the measure with Republican Sen. Olympia J. Snowe of Maine. He said Obama's team is sending mixed messages on what will and won't be tolerated on bonuses, with the president coming out strongly against excessive Wall Street rewards but top officials not following through.

The public should be outraged at AIG and the government. Though AIG is generally responsible for getting itself into this position, why shouldn't the public be angry about how they are using their tax dollars now?

The lobbyists came through again. The direct link to lobbyists is the companies they represent. So get the pitchforks and lets raid AIG.

 

[jpeyton]

You guys seriously have too much time on your hands.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: SampSon
They are getting bonuses for what exactly? For being involved in totally jacking the company? They are lucky (hardly) for even having "jobs." The public should expect a little better utilization of these funds than is actually happening. That is obviously too hard for these companies to accomplish.

Thats why these people are under investigation by trying to profit from a scam that *effectively* bankrupted AIG. Without the government making good on all the phony insurance policies they made and COULD NOT COVER to the tune of $180 billion dollars, they would have been toast. And when you go bankrupt, you dont honor any contract unless a judge says so. They deserve lenghty jail sentences and confiscation of all ill gotten gains as a bonus. Thats a bonus we all can believe in.

 

[mcmilljb]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Oh for fuck's sake. Go rampage against the feds, congress, etc. They are the ones that took your money and gave it to AIG in the first place. If they had simply let AIG go bankrupt, the contracts that AIG were lawfully required to uphold would have been null and void.

But no...let's ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians fucking everything up. Let's just RAWR!!! POPULOUS OUTRAGE!!! some more.

Like this guy?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This whole thing is very amusing to those of us outside of USA. You people get positively fucked in the ass by your government and large corporations. Your money is stolen from you to line the pockets of the wealthy. And then the guy who wants to do something about it gets mocked. You people are pathetic. You should be doing something. You're teaching your government and large corporations that it's just okay to steal your money with impunity.

The problem is of course organization and coordination. If a small group of people becomes "disorderly," in use of some sort of civil disobedience, they're simply arrested and hushed - the movement dies before it has a chance to gain momentum.

Direction is needed, coordination too. A group of 20 pissed off people is a minor annoyance. Many thousands of people demanding the heads of the wealthy delivered to them on their own silver platters - that will get attention.
The problem is getting it started on the right foot.

 

[miketheidiot]

sounds alot like cutting of the nose to spite my face, no thanks.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This whole thing is very amusing to those of us outside of USA. You people get positively fucked in the ass by your government and large corporations. Your money is stolen from you to line the pockets of the wealthy. And then the guy who wants to do something about it gets mocked. You people are pathetic. You should be doing something. You're teaching your government and large corporations that it's just okay to steal your money with impunity.

The problem is of course organization and coordination. If a small group of people becomes "disorderly," in use of some sort of civil disobedience, they're simply arrested and hushed - the movement dies before it has a chance to gain momentum.

Direction is needed, coordination too. A group of 20 pissed off people is a minor annoyance. Many thousands of people demanding the heads of the wealthy delivered to them on their own silver platters - that will get attention.
The problem is getting it started on the right foot.

Dear god, people. This is not about the wealthy (or at least not directly about those with money). It's about government power, and as a result, corporation power. Those are the people that need to be removed from power: not just anyone that happens to be financially successful. Obviously there is a certain level of crossover between the two groups, but please don't confuse them.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SampSon
Though to support your point, the money should have come with many more strings attached. Leave it to government to be so incompetent as to expect big business to do "the right thing", and not raid the coffers as it has done continuously for years.

See my post above that I updated. Never mistake incompetence for what is easily malfeasance and corruption. Dodd inserted the provision that protected AIG's bonuses. Dodd and Obama were #1 and #2 in receiving campaign contributions from AIG in 2008 alone...

They knew these bonuses were coming months ago and instead of making the provisions of the bailout stricter...they put in a loophole for bonuses.

And the beauty is that while everyone is focused on this silliness the same scumbags in Congress are working on yet more ways to spend another 1.7 trillion.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Oh for fuck's sake. Go rampage against the feds, congress, etc. They are the ones that took your money and gave it to AIG in the first place. If they had simply let AIG go bankrupt, the contracts that AIG were lawfully required to uphold would have been null and void.

But no...let's ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians fucking everything up. Let's just RAWR!!! POPULOUS OUTRAGE!!! some more.

:thumbsup:

 

[Platypus]

P AND FUCKING N FOR FUCKS SAKE

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Queasy
Oh for fuck's sake. Go rampage against the feds, congress, etc. They are the ones that took your money and gave it to AIG in the first place. If they had simply let AIG go bankrupt, the contracts that AIG were lawfully required to uphold would have been null and void.

But no...let's ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians fucking everything up. Let's just RAWR!!! POPULOUS OUTRAGE!!! some more.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

I really don't have a problem with the bonuses. There was enough pork in the stimulus package as it was, yet there doesn't seem to be so much an outcome. Also broadly speaking I am a huge fan of having a legal system where we recognize contracts and a legal process. This entire knee-jerk reaction of wanting to tar and feather AIG is really the antithesis of what we should be striving for.

I have a concern that if AIG did not fulfill their contractual obligations, there would have been litigation for those employees to sue AIG to fulfill their contract. As such money could have been spent on litigation and if a court enforces the contract that means even more money would have been spent.

Frankly I think the politicians and their pundits are doing nothing more than using AIG as some sort of pariah to get the public to focus on AIG as opposed to the politicians.

 

[BoomerD]

I do have an issue with the bonuses...the company did not meet expectations...no bonuses for you.

As for the raid...I need a new stapler. Count me in.

 

[WraithETC]

This forum has too many heavies and engineers.... completely no offense.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: WraithETC
This forum has too many heavies and engineers.... completely no offense.

I have an extra AK-47 someone can use, unless I decide to dual-wield.