Being asian, I suspect he wasn't that big. If so, there were a couple of cops after him in the first place. 2 against 1. Looks like the cops used excessive force.. even if the asian had a tire iron, 2 cops with guns > 1 tire iron. This could of been resolved without death. The cops were trigger happy and wanted to kill someone who didn't listen to them. Cops on a power trip FTL...
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So a friend's friend got shot and killed by the cops
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Being asian, I suspect he wasn't that big. If so, there were a couple of cops after him in the first place. 2 against 1. Looks like the cops used excessive force.. even if the asian had a tire iron, 2 cops with guns > 1 tire iron. This could of been resolved without death. The cops were trigger happy and wanted to kill someone who didn't listen to them. Cops on a power trip FTL...
OS
Lifer
i've never particularly cared for police, in fact i was about to say if a civilian shot him, he might be in jail, but the video doesn't show the actual shooting.
If in fact he charged the police with an iron, even for a civilian, it would be justifiable self defense for fear of serious bodily injury.
If in fact he charged the police with an iron, even for a civilian, it would be justifiable self defense for fear of serious bodily injury.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Only an idiot would shoot for someone's leg. It's a low-percentage shot that is unlikely to actually hit the person. Also, despite what you see in movies, a shot to the leg is unlikely to cause a person to drop immediately, even if it happens to hit the femoral artery.
If you're attacked, you aim for the center mass (chest/abdomen) and you continue to fire until the attacker either stops or you run out of ammunition. There are plenty of documented cases where an attacker continues to be a threat even after being shot multiple times.
People need to stop getting their gun information from TV and movies.
ZV
Zenmervolt
Elite member
And how much shooting experience do you have?
ZV
XxPrOdiGyxX
Senior member
none at people. m16-a2, m4, SAW, m-60, desert eagle, and the pistol they issue to army officers (can't remember what the manu/model is). I've already taken back some of my comments because I considered things that I didn't think of at first. I still think that the incident could have resulted without death.
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
Less than 21 feet away and raise a tire iron to a cop with his gun drawn?
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Would an autopsy reveal how close the gun was fired since it wasn't shown in the video? Also, they had guns on him and he didn't do a thing. I have to side with the OP on this one.
I'm not saying whether or not he should have been shot, but I am saying what he did was a dumbass move and the police didn't just take out their guns and shoot him in mere seconds.
JeffreyLebowski
Lifer
This isn't the movies, this is real life. you don't shoot to injure, you shoot to stop the act. It just so happens to be that usually means the recipient dies.
Now if cops did shoot people in the legg or arms to stop them, then you'd have your panties in a wad saying, "If they shot him in the leg/arm to stop him he didn't pose that much of a threat".
The moral of this little story is
DON'T COMMIT CRIME
Zenmervolt
Elite member
That's a neat list of firearms, but how often do you shoot?
And yes, in hindsight there are possibly ways that it could have been resolved without a loss of life. But we have a lot more time to think things through than the two officers did. I cannot fault them for their reaction.
ZV
Cops could of fire 1 shot to the torso. Not 10 shoots which they did (according to the news article). There's an old addage: "dead men don't talk". Cops fired to make sure he was dead and never talk.
A suspect with a tire iron and shot ONCE > 2 cops. Rememer, after an short confrontation, as the suspected started to walk away, the cops chased the suspect. Doesn't look like the cops thought they were in eminent threat.
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
Dude you'd be bitching that if they only shot once then they didn't feel like he was a real threat , as if he was they would have shot 10 times.
QueBert
Lifer
10 shots is not acceptable at all, glad a couple of power hungry maniacs got the chance to unload led into another person, maybe they'll chill for awhile. Police Officers are trained at using a fire arm. I am not trained in the use of one, and I know I could stop one person from that distance with far less than 10 shots. Excessive and sad, While I don't agree they should have tried to shoot him in the leg, 10 shots is too many, they could have shot him in the chest, he might have lived and there's no danger for the cops to be injured. Instead they decided it would be better to make sure a small Asian dude with a Tire Iron was dead, because what a threat he must have been.
On the bright side, he could have been a black man and gotten killed just for BOWB (being outside while black)
On the bright side, he could have been a black man and gotten killed just for BOWB (being outside while black)
manowar821
Diamond Member
Tire iron? Should've been tazed, in all honesty... That guy sounded like an idiot, though.
QueBert
Lifer
What if the man didn't speak English? I know it would be common sense to put the Tire Iron down if 2 cops have guns drawn at you. But if the person was non English speaking they could have been so scared they didn't think about it, and not understanding the commands didn't reply. A deaf dude in my town was shot, the cops went in his house, he was getting out of the shower and had nothing but a towel around his waist. He didn't hear them come in because he's deaf, they find him, have guns drawn he's panicking. Apparently they thought he had a gun under his towel and blasted him a bunch of times.
I don't like many Cops anymore they're too quick to shoot people before they figure out a rational method to defuse a situation. When I play Swat 4, if I shoot somebody simply for not responding to my "get down!" command I'll fail the mission. Shouldn't real life be the same?
I don't like many Cops anymore they're too quick to shoot people before they figure out a rational method to defuse a situation. When I play Swat 4, if I shoot somebody simply for not responding to my "get down!" command I'll fail the mission. Shouldn't real life be the same?
BeauJangles
Lifer
I don't know about local police, but federal officers are taught that a weapon like a tie iron IS a deadly weapon. When approaching a suspect with a deadly weapon, federal officers are taught to issue commands to the subject while keeping their guns trained on him. Once the suspect drops the deadly weapon, they are supposed to downgrade their force (ie move from pistol to baton or pepper spray).
The first unfortunate thing for the suspect in this case was that he was issued direct orders while wielding a deadly weapon. The second was that he continued to advance on police officers. Under those circumstances (unresponsive subject with deadly weapon) police are taught to fire.
Again, I'm only familiar with what federal officers are taught, the training could be different for local police.
mugs
Lifer
If he did lunge toward the police with the tire iron raised (like they say he did), then I believe deadly force was justified. If he was walking around with the tire iron lowered (I can't even see a tire iron in the video, I assume it was in his left hand?), I don't believe that justifies deadly force.
Like I said, it's unfortunate that the camera didn't capture what actually happened.
I never said a tire iron isn't a deadly weapon.
QueBert
Lifer
Cops are not civilians who go to the shooting range once a year, they are trained to know how to handle a gun properly. If the said Korean man had a gun it would be reasonable to shoot him until he's dead because a gun is a serious threat. Same man with a Tire Iron it would be reasonable to say once he's shot once the tire iron is no longer a threat. I could with fair ease take the man down in 2-3 shots, he might still die but it wouldn't take me almost a dozen bullets to stop a 90 lb, 5'5 Korean man. They weren't protecting anyones lives really, I mean 2 cops could have gotten the Tire Iron away from a small Asian dude. If they couldn't they shouldn't be Officers in the first place.
A gun is a quick and easy solution, but it wasn't the right one here. I suspect at worst they'll get a paid vacation while it's investigated. I'm not saying the Korean dude was in the right, but 10 shots? no fucking way
I think acceptable is anything that's not excessive, when the police in NYC shot that man 41 times and one of the Officers actually reloaded to keep shooting that was not acceptable, but hay that's just me *shrug*
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