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Snowden says he was a spy, not just an analyst - Interview 10 pm tonight NBC

By definition, if he was secretly collecting data about an enemy or competition, he was a spy. I am not sure why this is news. He worked for an organization that secretly collected (and analyzed to a point, which I am still suspect of) data.

I have a problem believing the NSA has the ability to, in real time, intercept and analyze 6 billion texts sent in a day, not to mention phone calls, emails, Facebook posts, etc.


Also, the US didn't strand him in Russia. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to come pick him up. He broke the law, regardless of what good he might have done.
 
"The fact is if he cares so much about America and he believes in America, he should trust in the American system of justice," Kerry said.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Yeah, I agree that when he said he was a "spy" he meant a spy for the US government. That line just cracked me up. They'd throw the patriot act at him and he'd never be seen again, nor would any of his additional leaks that's he's wisely releasing piecemeal to keep the issue in people's minds. Maybe pre-9/11 he could have pulled some Nelson-Mandela-like stay in prison.

Sorry Mr. Kerry, but from where I sit Edward Snowden as done more good for the world than you have.
 
Ahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Yeah, I agree that when he said he was a "spy" he meant a spy for the US government. That line just cracked me up. They'd throw the patriot act at him and he'd never be seen again, nor would any of his additional leaks that's he's wisely releasing piecemeal to keep the issue in people's minds. Maybe pre-9/11 he could have pulled some Nelson-Mandela-like stay in prison.

Sorry Mr. Kerry, but from where I sit Edward Snowden as done more good for the world than you have.


This admin had a chance to "walk the walk," but they blew it. I'd like to hear Mr. Kerry explain how Americans are now supposed to have trust in the government when they do things like http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/20/why-did-lavabit-shut-down-snowden-email


From the article:


My legal saga started last summer with a knock at the door, behind which stood two federal agents ready to to serve me with a court order requiring the installation of surveillance equipment on my company's network.

My company, Lavabit, provided email services to 410,000 people – including Edward Snowden, according to news reports – and thrived by offering features specifically designed to protect the privacy and security of its customers. I had no choice but to consent to the installation of their device, which would hand the US government access to all of the messages – to and from all of my customers – as they travelled between their email accounts other providers on the Internet.

But that wasn't enough. The federal agents then claimed that their court order required me to surrender my company's private encryption keys, and I balked. What they said they needed were customer passwords – which were sent securely – so that they could access the plain-text versions of messages from customers using my company's encrypted storage feature. (The government would later claim they only made this demand because of my "noncompliance".)

Bothered by what the agents were saying, I informed them that I would first need to read the order they had just delivered – and then consult with an attorney. The feds seemed surprised by my hesitation.

What ensued was a flurry of legal proceedings that would last 38 days, ending not only my startup but also destroying, bit by bit, the very principle upon which I founded it – that we all have a right to personal privacy.

In the first two weeks, I was served legal papers a total of seven times and was in contact with the FBI every other day. (This was the period a prosecutor would later characterize as my "period of silence".) It took a week for me to identify an attorney who could adequately represent me, given the complex technological and legal issues involved – and we were in contact for less than a day when agents served me with a summons ordering me to appear in a Virginia courtroom, over 1,000 miles from my home. Two days later, I was served the first subpoena for the encryption keys.

With such short notice, my first attorney was unable to appear alongside me in court. Because the whole case was under seal, I couldn't even admit to anyone who wasn't an attorney that I needed a lawyer, let alone why. In the days before my appearance, I would spend hours repeating the facts of the case to a dozen attorneys, as I sought someone else that was qualified to represent me. I also discovered that as a third party in a federal criminal indictment, I had no right to counsel. After all, only my property was in jeopardy – not my liberty. Finally, I was forced to choose between appearing alone or facing a bench warrant for my arrest.

In Virginia, the government replaced its encryption key subpoena with a search warrant and a new court date. I retained a small, local law firm before I went back to my home state, which was then forced to assemble a legal strategy and file briefs in just a few short days. The court barred them from consulting outside experts about either the statutes or the technology involved in the case. The court didn't even deliver transcripts of my first appearance to my own lawyers for two months, and forced them to proceed without access to the information they needed.

Then, a federal judge entered an order of contempt against me – without even so much as a hearing.

But the judge created a loophole: without a hearing, I was never given the opportunity to object, let alone make any any substantive defense, to the contempt change. Without any objection (because I wasn't allowed a hearing), the appellate court waived consideration of the substantive questions my case raised – and upheld the contempt charge, on the grounds that I hadn't disputed it in court. Since the US supreme court traditionally declines to review decided on wholly procedural grounds, I will be permanently denied justice.


Can't imagine why someone wouldn't be excited to let that kind of process decide their fate. Sorry Mr. Kerry, he may or may not trust American justice, but it seems he trusts politicians to corrupt it like they do most things - as indicated by cases like the one above.
 
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He isn't stupid, he knows the government will kill him or put him in jail for the rest of his life. Why the hell would he come back for that? Just because he is doing what he thinks is right doesn't change that fact.
 
First and foremost, the guy is a traitor.

Secondly, he's a self-aggrandizing asshole.

:colbert:

So in your world people who defend the Constitution by illegal means are traitors, and those who erode and undermine the Constitution by legal means fior their own benefit (at least 75% of DC) are.. what? Patriots?

Snowden hasn't damaged the United States at all, he's helped heal it in the same way that breaking a badly healed bone helps it heal correctly. If he hadn't done what he did the future damage would have been far worse.

I'll agree the man has a narcissistic streak, but our elected officials put him to shame in terms of crimes against the United States, and in terms of narcissism.
 
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I'll agree the man has a narcissistic streak, but our elected officials put him to shame in terms of crimes against the United States, and in terms of narcissism.

Agree with you on our elected officials, but it still does not change the fact that he is a traitor.
 
Agree with you on our elected officials, but it still does not change the fact that he is a traitor.

Or maybe our government is reaching that corruption threshold where the only way to do anything right is to be a "traitor" in the technical sense. Would suck, but this could be the beginning of such a stage.

If Snowden has betrayed the United States, he has a funny way of showing it. The only damage I see is that caused by the secret programs that he's revealed, and that would have been revealed somehow sooner or later; probably under even less favorable circumstances. Snowden alerted us and the world to the cancer in the early stages, hardly the actions of a traitor.
 
Agree with you on our elected officials, but it still does not change the fact that he is a traitor.

This.

His "morals" or whatever bullshit he wants to call it sabotaged our relations with damn near the entire globe, and gave our enemies national secrets.

If anyone really deserves to be pelted to death with stones, this guy is the one.
 
This.

His "morals" or whatever bullshit he wants to call it sabotaged our relations with damn near the entire globe, and gave our enemies national secrets.

If anyone really deserves to be pelted to death with stones, this guy is the one.

That would be the Constitution? In my mind our international relations and national secrets are a small price to pay for upholding it. In fact as I recall both our President and the director of the NSA have sworn oaths to uphold and defend it; oaths they have clearly betrayed, if they ever took them seriously to begin with.
 
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That would be the Constitution? In my mind our international relations and national secrets are a small price to pay for upholding it. In fact as I recall both our President and the director of the NSA have sworn oaths to uphold and defend it; oaths they have clearly betrayed, if they ever took them seriously to begin with.

That would be -- you take the issue up the appropriate chain of command and not release national secrets to the public? Sorry, but releasing classified information to the general public is in no way excusable, regardless of the rationale. He should be put to death for being a traitor, unquestionably.

Oops, I put treason instead of being a traitor, I guess I am the new dumbass #2
 
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That would be -- you take the issue up the appropriate chain of command and not release national secrets to the public? Sorry, but releasing classified information to the general public is in no way excusable, regardless of the rationale. He should be put to death for treason, unquestionably.

Well aren't we a good little soldier. Black and white to the death, and unquestioning trust in the chain of command! If something is classified, clearly it's because a better man than you decided correctly that you didn't need to know. Your opinion on the matter is absolutely meaningless and you're fine with that! For my part I like to know when my government is actively violating my 4th amendment rights, or is otherwise committing acts that violate the spirit of the laws of the land. In such cases the "classified" moniker that was slapped on said action by some corrupt bureaucrat can go fuck itself, and every man woman and child in the world can know for all I care. It's called justice, and from my research a "classified" label is used far too often to escape it.

But no, you're right, because given Senator Feinstein's now publicly espoused views on the program, as Chairmen of the Senate Intelligence Committee she clearly would have taken swift and decisive action to reign in the NSA. 🙄

Our government has been eroding public trust for decades, now they are busy eroding government oversight. The day will come when internal government oversight is no longer effective, in fact that day has arguably come for the NSA. On such days it is necessary to break the law to fix it, and for whatever personal motivation that's what Snowden did.

If the United States has been damaged by anyone it's by those who violated the spirit of the Constitution they swore to protect and created said programs in the first place; Snowden was just the messenger. If the problem is as systemic as it appears, no amount of available internal oversight could have fixed this. Now those who violated the Constitution are being brought to heel, however mildly; and their whining about vague, undefined "damage" has about as much substance as that of a kid's excuses when he get sent to his room.
 
Well aren't we a good little soldier. Black and white to the death, and unquestioning trust in the chain of command! If something is classified, clearly it's because a better man than you decided correctly that you didn't need to know. Your opinion on the matter is absolutely meaningless and you're fine with that! For my part I like to know when my government is actively violating my 4th amendment rights, or is otherwise committing acts that violate the spirit of the laws of the land. In such cases the "classified" moniker that was slapped on said action by some corrupt bureaucrat can go fuck itself, and every man woman and child in the world can know for all I care. It's called justice, and from my research a "classified" label is used far too often to escape it.

But no, you're right, because given Senator Feinstein's now publicly espoused views on the program, as Chairmen of the Senate Intelligence Committee she clearly would have taken swift and decisive action to reign in the NSA. 🙄

Our government has been eroding public trust for decades, now they are busy eroding government oversight. The day will come when internal government oversight is no longer effective, in fact that day has arguably come for the NSA. On such days it is necessary to break the law to fix it, and for whatever personal motivation that's what Snowden did.

If the United States has been damaged by anyone it's by those who violated the spirit of the Constitution they swore to protect and created said programs in the first place; Snowden was just the messenger. If the problem is as systemic as it appears, no amount of available internal oversight could have fixed this. Now those who violated the Constitution are being brought to heel, however mildly; and their whining about vague, undefined "damage" has about as much substance as that of a kid's excuses when he get sent to his room.

Frankly, your opinion of the matter means dick. I didn't even bother to read your worthless response beyond the first sentence. He divulged classified information with the intent of damaging our nation. He is a traitor, regardless of how you want to spin it. You are not in the "need to know" of every government secret just because you think its the morally correct thing to do. Think it's cool to have people leaking classified information just because they have an opinion? If so, then you're worse than any troll this forum has ever had because you believe in what you say.

Maybe it's because you were born in 1987 and you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, or perhaps you're just a retard -- either way, your position is indefensible and you are a fool. Regardless, hopefully, you'll get to see your traitorous hero get the traitor's death he deserves.
 
So in your world people who defend the Constitution by illegal means are traitors, and those who erode and undermine the Constitution by legal means fior their own benefit (at least 75% of DC) are.. what? Patriots?

Snowden hasn't damaged the United States at all, he's helped heal it in the same way that breaking a badly healed bone helps it heal correctly. If he hadn't done what he did the future damage would have been far worse.

I'll agree the man has a narcissistic streak, but our elected officials put him to shame in terms of crimes against the United States, and in terms of narcissism.

He was a hero for releasing *DOMESTIC* spying info, which comprised 5% of the releases so far. He's a traitor for everything else. One far outweighs the other and he deserves to rot in that shithole called Russia. Maybe then he'll release just how much better this country is.
 
Frankly, your opinion of the matter means dick. I didn't even bother to read your worthless response beyond the first sentence. He divulged classified information with the intent of damaging our nation.

His intent? Seriously? How do you know what his intent is or was. He has not sold out to the chinese or the Russian as far as anyone knows.

Thats the problem with folks like you you don't want to hear anything unless its what you want to believe.
 
His intent? Seriously? How do you know what his intent is or was. He has not sold out to the chinese or the Russian as far as anyone knows.

Thats the problem with folks like you you don't want to hear anything unless its what you want to believe.

I don't think he sold out to the Chinese or Russians but I think he's a massively naive rube who thinks that people like Putin are better than anything we do.
 
His intent? Seriously? How do you know what his intent is or was. He has not sold out to the chinese or the Russian as far as anyone knows.

Thats the problem with folks like you you don't want to hear anything unless its what you want to believe.

He intended to release classified documents and did so because... it would be beneficial to the U.S. to ignore the classification of information as "classified" and reveal the espionage our government has committed, unbeknownst to the rest of the world prior to that point? If anyone doesn't want to hear things they don't want to believe, it is you. But please, dumbass #2, enlighten me as to how he is not a traitor, and know that you are simply wasting your time on an indefensible stance on the matter.
 
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