Snowden says he was a spy, not just an analyst - Interview 10 pm tonight NBC

[irishScott]

Frankly, your opinion of the matter means dick. I didn't even bother to read your worthless response beyond the first sentence. He divulged classified information with the intent of damaging our nation. He is a traitor, regardless of how you want to spin it. You are not in the "need to know" of every government secret just because you think its the morally correct thing to do. Think it's cool to have people leaking classified information just because they have an opinion? If so, then you're worse than any troll this forum has ever had because you believe in what you say.

Maybe it's because you were born in 1987 and you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, or perhaps you're just a retard -- either way, your position is indefensible and you are a fool. Regardless, hopefully, you'll get to see your traitorous hero get the traitor's
death he deserves.

Spin? You're the one putting words in my mouth and making personal attacks when you can't even defend your own arguments. Granted I doubt they are your own arguments.

I'm an American citizen and a voter, my opinion on the matter means at least that much and I clearly value what my citizenship stands for a lot more than you.

I think when the government breaks it's own laws, either in letter or spirit, a leak is nothing but helpful. Particularly when the laws in question are those enshrined in its bedrock document. But no, Snowden could have revealed a secret death camp, and by your logic you'd still want him shot. The mindless cooperation of people like you are why internal threats to our Constitution exist.

 

[mrjminer]

Spin? You're the one putting words in my mouth and making personal attacks when you can't even defend your own arguments. Granted I doubt they are your own arguments.

I'm an American citizen and a voter, my opinion on the matter means at least that much and I clearly value what my citizenship stands for a lot more than you.

I think when the government breaks it's own laws, either in letter or spirit, a leak is nothing but helpful. Particularly when the laws in question are those enshrined in its bedrock document.

But no, Snowden could have revealed a secret death camp, and by your logic you'd still want him shot. The mindless cooperation of people like you are why internal threats to our Constitution exist.

Was the information he released classified or not?

That is the only question that you need to answer. A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[irishScott]

Was the information he released classified or not?

That is the only question that you need to answer. A simple yes or no will suffice.

And if you were an SS Officer 70 years ago you'd have been one of those who was "simply following orders". Last I checked people like you still got hanged or shot, in part by Americans.

A military officer is not required to follow illegal orders. An American Civilian has even more freedom and is not required to tolerate illegal laws, regardless of how "classified" they might be. But it's kind of hard to file suit against a law when you're not allowed to even read it.

 

[mrjminer]

And if you were an SS Officer 70 years ago you'd have been one of those who was "simply following orders". Last I checked people like you still got hanged or shot, in part by Americans.

A military officer is not required to follow illegal orders. An American Citizen has even more freedom and is not required to tolerate illegal laws, regardless of how "classified" they might be.

Was the information classified or not? The question is a "yes" or "no" question.

 

[irishScott]

Was the information classified or not? The question is a "yes" or "no" question.

Alright, let me put in your language. No it wasn't classified. It was illegal, and therefore any protections from classification are null and void.

Of course a legal challenge has to go through the judicial systems, as several currently are. It's kind hard to legally challenge a law or program that you can't even read or acknowledge the existence of. The United States isn't a military. A bunch of appointed Generals don't get to sit around in a room and decide what's legal and what isn't.

 

[TerryMathews]

Was the information classified or not? The question is a "yes" or "no" question.

You can't hide an illegal act under the guise of classification, so I would say the answer is no.

 

[TerryMathews]

It amuses greatly to see the marionette puppets defending a President for actions that they would have crucified Bush over, just due to the party he belongs to.

 

[irishScott]

It amuses greatly to see the marionette puppets defending a President for actions that they would have crucified Bush over, just due to the party he belongs to.

I'm more amused at how right the little Fascist thinks he is. I thought that mentality that was confined to Stormfront.

 

[mrjminer]

Alright, let me put in your language. No it wasn't classified. It was illegal, and therefore any protections from classification are null and void.

Of course a legal challenge has to go through the judicial systems, as several currently are. It's kind hard to legally challenge a law or program that you can't even read or acknowledge the existence of. The United States isn't a military. A bunch of Generals don't just get to sit around in a room and decide what's legal and what isn't.

You can't hide an illegal act under the guise of classification, so I would say the answer is no.

Except in the case of national security, such as our espionage of other countries. Not to mention, that doesn't mean Edward Snowden gets to make the decision based on his opinion. Congratulations on being dumbass #3 of the thread.

 

[irishScott]

Except in the case of national security, such as our espionage of other countries. Not to mention, that doesn't mean Edward Snowden gets to make the decision based on his opinion. Congratulations on being dumbass #3 of the thread.

So in theory, the government could classify every law on the books in the name of national security without substantiation and you would be fine with that. True or False?

 

[mrjminer]

So in theory, the government could classify every law on the books in the name of national security without providing details and you would be fine with that. True or False?

False. There are specific circumstances under which information is validly classified. Regardless, it again is not Edward Snowden's call to make. Your hero is a traitor, and you are a fool for praising him.

 

[irishScott]

False. There are specific circumstances under which information is validly classified. Regardless, it again is not Edward Snowden's call to make. Your hero is a traitor, and you are a fool for praising him.

So if the government wanted to classify all laws and decisions regarding education in the name of national security, and when asked why said that the reasons were classified, then all laws and decisions regarding education should be classified. True or false?

 

[mrjminer]

So if the government wanted to classify all laws and decisions regarding education in the name of national security, and when asked why would say that the reasons were classified, then all laws and decisions regarding education should be classified. True or false?

False. The information actually has to be related to national security, not just dubbed so. Again, it still is not within his authority to release the information -- which you've failed to even address.

As I said previously, your position is indefensible. Edward Snowden is a traitor, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Shit, even if he just released the domestic data, you would at least have some arguable point. However, that is not the case. He chose to release classified information regarding our espionage of other countries. He is no hero.

 

[Paul98]

To our current government he sure is a traitor...

But with what our current government is doing he is obviously correct in what he is doing. He shouldn't come back to the US unless something major changes in the future.

Yet I only expect things to get worse

 

[mrjminer]

To our current government he sure is a traitor...

But with what our current government is doing he is obviously correct in what he is doing. He shouldn't come back to the US unless something major changes in the future.

Yet I only expect things to get worse

Congratulations, #4.

Anyways, it has been fun to the four of you who are blatantly wrong, but I tire of wasting my time arguing with those idolizing traitors.

 

[irishScott]

False. The information actually has to be related to national security, not just dubbed so. Again, it still is not within his authority to release the information -- which you've failed to even address.

As I said previously, your position is indefensible. Edward Snowden is a traitor, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Shit, even if he just released the domestic data, you would at least have some arguable point. However, that is not the case. He chose to release classified information regarding our espionage of other countries. He is no hero.

But how would you know that? In that scenario the information substantiating the need for classification is classified. See where I'm going with this?

Too much classification doesn't protect the Republic, it turns it into an Oligarchy where "need to know" is more about power than actual need to know; and that's what we have with the NSA.

And yeah he probably revealed other information as part of a bargain to keep himself free but that was a necessity, not an objective; and the US is still standing as strong as it ever was last I checked. The positive effects of Snowden's actions far outweigh the negative IMO. Or at least I'm allowed to see the positive effects. If the DNI would see fit to declassify even some vague half-specifics on what exactly his actions have damaged, or what good the NSA program's have done, then I might change my tune presuming they were even half-verifiable. They have not done so. For preventing 50 some-odd attacks over the last few years, you'd think they could release details on at least 1.

 

[Paul98]

Congratulations, #4.

Anyways, it has been fun to the four of you who are blatantly wrong, but I tire of wasting my time arguing with those idolizing traitors.

Thank you, I am glad you think that. I would have had to rethink my position had you agreed with me

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Heh, "Man up" Kerry. If Snowden hadn't leaked we'd still be clueless. The Orwellians will fuss but I'm glad to know at least a part of how low our government can go.

 

[TerryMathews]

False. The information actually has to be related to national security, not just dubbed so. Again, it still is not within his authority to release the information -- which you've failed to even address.

As I said previously, your position is indefensible. Edward Snowden is a traitor, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Shit, even if he just released the domestic data, you would at least have some arguable point. However, that is not the case. He chose to release classified information regarding our espionage of other countries. He is no hero.

You post falls apart because so far as I've seen no one is claiming that Snowden had the legal authority to declassify and release. We are instead arguing that the information could not be classified as a 4th amendment violation.

It's funny how Ellsberg is a hero and Snowden a traitor just based on who is in the White House.

ETA: the Pentagon Papers were classified as national security relevant as well.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I don't think he sold out to the Chinese or Russians but I think he's a massively naive rube who thinks that people like Putin are better than anything we do.

Let me fix that for you.

You think that you, yourself, are a massively naive rube who thinks that those who run the American govt. are better in any meaningful way than a thug like Putin.

 

[LegendKiller]

Let me fix that for you.

You think that you, yourself, are a massively naive rube who thinks that those who run the American govt. are better in any meaningful way than a thug like Putin.

We enjoy far more freedoms than the average Russian, far more. If you think anything different you are a fucking fool, period. Ask Pussy Riot, or any one of the Russian enemies that have had a Polonium milkshake. Show me a single person who has been able to amass a fortune of 70bn+ (some estimates over $100bn) in the US that has worked in the government the entire time? Show me a single person in the US that has been thrown in prison for "tax evasion" when they started to disagree with the President, or Congress. Show me a single person who sold off enormous companies for pennies on the dollar to amass not only a personal, but a buddies fortune, in the US.

The Russian government is the single largest (outside of China) kleptocracy in the history of mankind. They are raping that country and the FSB/SVR are *FAR* more invasive and powerful than the CIA/NSA.

 

[waggy]

when it first came out what he did i thought he was a traitor.

now after finding out all the government has done over the years i am disgusted and think what he did was good. he is not traitor. though i also don't think he is a hero

 

[michal1980]

when it first came out what he did i thought he was a traitor.

now after finding out all the government has done over the years i am disgusted and think what he did was good. he is not traitor. though i also don't think he is a hero

Those on the left will call him a traitor, only because it came out under Obama. If he happened to leak this information under Bush they'd call him a hero.

 

[DCal430]

Snowden is a traitor, if he really felt is was justified, he would face the justice system and trust in it. He needs to return and spend some time in prison.

 

[Paul98]

Snowden is a traitor, if he really felt is was justified, he would face the justice system and trust in it. He needs to return and spend some time in prison.

If you do the right thing and know that you will go to jail for the rest of your life for it why the hell would you.

That's just idiotic