Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory

[ProfJohn]

This bit from the National Review explains exactly how I feel right now.

I am sure a lot of middle of the road conservatives feel the same way. We are on the edge of a huge change in how things are done, but the Tea Party types want to block the bill because it is not perfect.

If we keep waiting for perfect we will end up with nothing.

Hard to believe what I’m reading, hearing, and watching. It’s a concerted, bipartisan effort to snatch defeat when victory is in sight.

Let’s start with the House Democrats, who are content to make a political statement and sit on their hands. That means that the Boehner plan must pass with only Republican votes and Democrats don’t care if financial markets melt down tomorrow morning (they will).

Add to this list the White House. Are they whipping Democrats to vote for the Boehner plan, move a legislative vehicle to the House, soothe financial markets, and work to a better (in their eyes) legislative outcome in the Senate? No; that’s called governing. Instead, they are pushing a Reid proposal that will never get 60 votes in the Senate.

Now, about the Senate. Can Harry Reid actually move a piece of legislation, whether it comes from the House Republicans or one of his own? No. The Senate Democrats’ contribution to the week’s efforts has been a letter saying “no way” to a plan that has yet to emerge from the House. Meanwhile, America slides toward meltdown.

And finally, let’s discuss the House Republicans who are standing on the brink of sending to the Senate — who will pass it — and the president — who will sign it — a piece of legislation that is consistent with their principles, if not perfect. Instead of simply voting yes, they have formed a variety of unproductive coalitions: the Coalition of the Willfully Ignorant (who claim you don’t need a debt-ceiling increase or that markets won’t care and there will be no fallout) and the Coalition of It’s Someone Else’s Problem (because I just want to have an issue and campaign). Result: They suffer a political loss and America loses.

Wow. Hope somebody either blinks, or thinks.

 

[theeedude]

Boehner's bill is DOA in the Senate. But it's corpse may be useful as a vehicle for Reid bill. If Senate GOP wants to filibuster the US into a default, good luck sticking with that.

 

[cubby1223]

^^^
and the Reid bill is DOA in the house.

so where do the partisans go from here?

 

[JSt0rm]

^^^
and the Reid bill is DOA in the house.

so where do the partisans go from here?

hell

 

[sportage]

It takes two to tango, and it takes two to be stubborn.
One wants, one wants not.
It can hardly be said that democrats are "sitting on their hands", when all Boehner has to do is compromise and tweak his proposal, and pick up the needed votes on the democratic side. Forget about the tea baggers.
Seems to be a lot of "hand sitting" going on...

Republicans have done this "compromising thing" before. So have democrats. The theory of the compromise is nothing new. Well.. maybe to the tea baggers it is new. Paying ones bills racked up over the past 11 years is nothing new.
Democrats want to compromise. Obama wants to compromise. John Boehner wants to compromise. The tea baggers have no clue what compromising is.

ps.
It appears to me their goal (the tea baggers) has been to derail the process and control the republican party.
John McCain called then out (the tea baggers), and he was immediately attacked. Not by democrats. By the tea baggers. They have no loyalties. No affiliation beyond their own. They just happen to have attached themselves onto the republican party, like a hungry parasite. Which in itself says something about the republican party vs. the democrat party.

 

[cubby1223]

^^^
Seriously?

The "tea baggers" do not comprise a majority in the House. A bill can be passed in the House without a single vote from a Tea Party member. I see a lot of stubborn Democrats in the House as well.

Shall we continue the partisan gameplay some more?

 

[sportage]

It appears to me their goal (the tea baggers) has been to derail the process and control the republican party.
John McCain called then out (the tea baggers), and he was immediately attacked. Not by democrats. By the tea baggers. They have no loyalties. No affiliation beyond their own. They just happen to have attached themselves onto the republican party, like a hungry parasite. Which in itself says something about the republican party vs. the democrat party.

 

[Double Trouble]

OP: that's a pretty good summary of how I feel as well. Both sides are displaying a staggering lack of leadership and are playing with fire. This brinksmanship is fine and dandy, but in the end we might all get burned.

The tea party is a convenient excuse, but the reality is not a single tea party vote is needed to pass something in the house. If the house members stop thinking of themselves as part of a party first rather than a representative of the people, they'd be able to work something out and pass it, regardless of what the tea party group thinks. Instead, the democrats are happy to sit it out completely and do nothing, the republicans are trying to get something crafted that will make unrealistic tea party members happy, and in reality it doesn't look like either side has a bill (including Reid's bill in the senate) that can go anywhere.

This is ugly, and it's not just one side or the other being stupid.

 

[superccs]

Well I (and most of my family) have sold our shares in the stock market as the resulting lack in confidence in this dump will tumble.
Congressmen, do us a favor be wearing fresh underwear when the mob storms your houses with pitchforks and torches.

 

[Dulanic]

I like how according to people in this thread it is one side or the other sitting on their hands depending on who you ask. I see both sides coming up with their own versions, just no one wants to meet in the middle. The only portion I don't see offering anything is the tea fuckers.

Dems = Reid proposal
Repubs = Boehner proposal
Tea morons = Make us default to shock people into their ideals.

 

[IronWing]

This meltdown is squarely the fault of Boehner and the House Reps for attempting to add what is fundamentally an unrelated budget rider to a must-pass debt limit bill. This is a tactic we've seen again and again over the years and it stinks regardless of which party does it. To avoid default, the Reps simply need to drop their rider and pass a clean debt limit bill.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is a manufactured crisis, manufactured by Republicans. Obviously, they were for more borrowing when they helped pass the current budget, but now they're against raising the money to pay for it.

Posturing.

If they were interested in fiscal responsibility, they'd recognize that raising taxes has to be part of the solution.

And if the Republican leadership hadn't nurtured the mindless raving of their tea party base, they wouldn't be scared shitless of what they've created, either... Those mindless ravers are the Repubs who vote in primaries.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I like how according to people in this thread it is one side or the other sitting on their hands depending on who you ask. I see both sides coming up with their own versions, just no one wants to meet in the middle. The only portion I don't see offering anything is the tea fuckers.

Dems = Reid proposal
Repubs = Boehner proposal
Tea morons = Make us default to shock people into their ideals.

both the Dems and tehRepubs proposals are relying on smoke/mirros to jsutify their numbers thouhg.

Planning cuts on something that is thought of/anticipated but does not exist does not count as a cut.

Right now; we are W dollars in the whole with the debt and X dollars in the hole for the 2001 deficit. The 2011 budget is Y dollars.
Planning a budget again lopping off N dollars from a Z (2012) budget is not correct.

There is no actual Z budget
You have to lop off N dollars from the Y budget to get to the Z (2012) budget.

N does not have to equal X at this time; but should be based on a reasonable percentage*2 of X over the time span that they are proposing to straighten out this mess.

 

[EagleKeeper]

This is a manufactured crisis, manufactured by Republicans. Obviously, they were for more borrowing when they helped pass the current budget, but now they're against raising the money to pay for it.

Posturing.

If they were interested in fiscal responsibility, they'd recognize that raising taxes has to be part of the solution.

And if the Republican leadership hadn't nurtured the mindless raving of their tea party base, they wouldn't be scared shitless of what they've created, either... Those mindless ravers are the Repubs who vote in primaries.

It is also possible that the crisis came into being (turd floated to the top) because the stimulus did not work as sold to the people! Then that allowed the Republicans to gain enough power to force the issue as a way to upset Obama.

Cause and effect.

Obama came in because he was stating that he will turn things around - the Repubs had their chance and did not.
He then stated that the problem was even worse and that he needed a blank check to turn things around.
He was given a blank check.
Two years later, things still had not turned around
Republican were empowered to act as a counter balance to Obama.

Now both sides have to stop trying to block the other and come up with a reasonable solution. Neither still is do it. Both are relying on their own interests and smoke/mirrors to advance their agendas which is to force pain on the other constituents.

 

[ichy]

The Teahadists have lost their minds on this issue. The Dems are far from blameless (they had both houses of congress for two years and the White House and did NOTHING to restore fiscal sanity) but when I hear idiots like Michelle Bachman say that they will oppose any tax increases or debt ceiling hikes it makes me want to scream. Unfortunate as it is, we will need some tax increases, a cut to entitlement programs (despite all the whining about "balancing the budget on the backs of seniors") AND a debt limit increase.

 

[Thump553]

Boehner's bill is a show piece and not a solution. Worse still it prolongs the agony of the debt ceiling stalemate by revisiting the issue in a couple of months. Boehner's bill is purely a political manuever designed to keep this issue in the public forefront through the election based upon the erroneous belief that the voiting public will come around to supporting the GOP.

PJ are you really that naive that you think ANY Dem would support that hachet job or is this yet again one of your partisan fluff pieces? Gee I wonder.

 

[thraashman]

I find this amusing. What was it about the Affordable Healthcare Act that Republicans kept attacking? Something about how it had to be tweaked to get every Democrat to vote for it to survive the most filibustering minority in Senate history. And how because they couldn't get EVERY Senator on it easily that it proved something. Well, the Republican party has a 47 person majority in the House and only needs a simple majority to pass this, and they can't get the votes. Sounds to me like this means this plan is even less popular than the Healthcare act.

Now, how about they try to compromise and we leave the fringe of both the Republicans and the Democrats to wallow.

 

[wuliheron]

Boehner can't get it up and is blaming everyone else for his impedance, while the overwhelming majority of Americans are ready to throw the tea party into the Boston Harbor.

 

[a777pilot]

....overwhelming majority of Americans are ready to throw the tea party into the Boston Harbor.

No they are not.

 

[Jaskalas]

This bit from the National Review explains exactly how I feel right now.

I am sure a lot of middle of the road conservatives feel the same way. We are on the edge of a huge change in how things are done, but the Tea Party types want to block the bill because it is not perfect.

If we keep waiting for perfect we will end up with nothing.

You intended that as a joke, right?

So a whole $80 billion / year in cuts this decade, to continue to dogpile on the debt is 'edge of a huge change'.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

This is a manufactured crisis, manufactured by Republicans. Obviously, they were for more borrowing when they helped pass the current budget, but now they're against raising the money to pay for it.

Posturing.

If they were interested in fiscal responsibility, they'd recognize that raising taxes has to be part of the solution.

And if the Republican leadership hadn't nurtured the mindless raving of their tea party base, they wouldn't be scared shitless of what they've created, either... Those mindless ravers are the Repubs who vote in primaries.

S&P says spending as a percent of GDP is the problem and will likely lower our rating if we don't get at least $4T in cuts...I guess they must be in on the "manufactured" crisis as well.

Do yourself a favor and set the partisan bullshit aside and take an honest look at what's going on.

 

[werepossum]

You intended that as a joke, right?

So a whole $80 billion / year in cuts this decade, to continue to dogpile on the debt is 'edge of a huge change'.

This. We are so far in the hole, and digging so fast, that even a Tea Party victory is going to be a failure.

We'll be lucky to get out of this mess in a couple decades without being a hard socialist republic.

 

[her209]

The House Democrats didn't cause this. Instead of catering the bill to garner House Democratic votes, Boehner chose to cater the bill to Tea Partiers. The GOP leadership was brimming with hope yesterday morning that the revised Boehner bill would be passed later that night. I guess they set their expectation a little high. They gambled and lost yesterday.

There's reports that maybe the bill will be voted on and passed today. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[KGB]

Gee, ... who'da thunk it?

The GOP is PISSED that a small minority is gumming up the works???

 

[MovingTarget]

No they are not...yet.

FTFY. If the economy crashes and burns because of this manufactured crisis, we certainly will be willing to throw the tea party into the Boston harbor. They took what was a simmering problem that could have been handled in a much more statesmanlike and mature manner and threw gasoline on the fire because they don't get their way. Their petulance is what got us into this mess.