Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
If it were warm enough to go to the damn beach I'd be thrilled and wouldn't much care if people were smoking.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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I thought I might point out that common sense is always the 1st thing that gets thrown out the window in a mob rule democracy. In other words, if an activity like homosexuality can become a civil rights issue, then so can an activity like smoking. And "born that way" will have nothing to do it, because it has already been "scientifically" determined that some people are born more pre-disposed to addiction than others.
God forbid all that become a reality, but we are certainly well on our way down that path. Soon enough, none of us will be responsible for anything we do, and without responsibility, there is no freedom.
LOLOriginally posted by: Vic
On that note, I think it should be illegal to stink up a public bathroom
You got that right. Now if we need to ban something, some of the sh!t that crawls out of some people's assholes and stinks up public restrooms ought to be banned, that's for sure.
How does that change the argument? Because someone does activity X they should have their rights chipped away? Doesn't matter if skin is changable or not. The same arguments used today are the ones used back then. I think Blue Laws relating to open containers and public intox are fairly silly anyway.
Mill said:
First of all I don't smoke and I don't like to be exposed to second hand smoke either. However..
Regarding that slippery slope, it's very scary how people like to keep easily adding more rules and laws. This may be because people in government feel bored and want to keep busy serving the public or because they have a need to feel "in control" of what's around them and that they changed things (for better or worse). The problem is that this rulemaking behavior doesn't ever stop and once rules and laws are made they are seldom revoked.
Even if some of the new rules and laws are beneficial the result is still the same: ever decreasing freedom. It takes an active will to leave freedom alone because human nature seems to want to ever erode it.
First of all I don't smoke and I don't like to be exposed to second hand smoke either. However..
Regarding that slippery slope, it's very scary how people like to keep easily adding more rules and laws. This may be because people in government feel bored and want to keep busy serving the public or because they have a need to feel "in control" of what's around them and that they changed things (for better or worse). The problem is that this rulemaking behavior doesn't ever stop and once rules and laws are made they are seldom revoked.
Even if some of the new rules and laws are beneficial the result is still the same: ever decreasing freedom. It takes an active will to leave freedom alone because human nature seems to want to ever erode it.
DanTMWTMP
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2001
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it sucks when i pass someone who smokes..i think it's rude and intrusive in public places; especially in places where it's crowded. Besides, smokers are a huge minority in california. There not many smokers to be seen around here....
banning smoking outside is probably getting too far, but I seriously don't mind. I personally HATE smokers, and i think it's rude to see someone smoke in a public place
Well, i do favor this move, but since it is outside, it is unfair to those who smoke. Then again, why don't you phokking quit? i hate the butts being thrown everywhere
(i went to NYC during the yr 2000 celebration...sheesh, i never seen so many smokers and butts everywhere...i hated it...they should ban smoking in the whole city and have specialized smoking areas or something)
banning smoking outside is probably getting too far, but I seriously don't mind. I personally HATE smokers, and i think it's rude to see someone smoke in a public place
Well, i do favor this move, but since it is outside, it is unfair to those who smoke. Then again, why don't you phokking quit? i hate the butts being thrown everywhere
(i went to NYC during the yr 2000 celebration...sheesh, i never seen so many smokers and butts everywhere...i hated it...they should ban smoking in the whole city and have specialized smoking areas or something)
Why should freedom of people be restricted just because you don't like something? I just can't understand that.
Cuda1447
Lifer
- Jul 26, 2002
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Mill, since you keep using outrageous arguments so will I. Should it be legal to randomly shoot off guns on a public beach? Hell no. So how is this any different?
See the problem with your homosexual argument is that homosexuality seriously doesn't hurt anyone. Smoking actually does hurt and bother people. There is a huge difference between the two, if you want to compare apples to oranges so can I.
When did I say anything about smoking? Secondly, randomly shooting guns would incite panic and could hurt people.
- Aug 23, 2003
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Mill, breathing secondhand cigarette smoke is a known health hazard first, and an offensive odor second.
You see we have things like scientific studies that we never had in the 1930s, when people were allowed to smoke almost anywhere. These studies showed that not only was smoking incredibly bad for the health of the smoker, but also bad for anyone who breathed their secondhand smoke.
The fact that a smoker is ruining my personal health by smoking in any public place, indoors or outdoors, means that they are infringing upon others freedoms by exercising theirs. We could argue for hours about ventilation, etc., in an outdoor arena like a beach, but the fact is that if I can smell it AT ALL, I consider it secondhand smoke.
IMHO, smoking is a disgusting, offensive habit, and I personally can't respect someone 100% who doesn't respect their own health with such blatant disregard. Yes, I feel the same with other "abusers", like people on drugs and alcoholics (but not social drinkers).
You see we have things like scientific studies that we never had in the 1930s, when people were allowed to smoke almost anywhere. These studies showed that not only was smoking incredibly bad for the health of the smoker, but also bad for anyone who breathed their secondhand smoke.
The fact that a smoker is ruining my personal health by smoking in any public place, indoors or outdoors, means that they are infringing upon others freedoms by exercising theirs. We could argue for hours about ventilation, etc., in an outdoor arena like a beach, but the fact is that if I can smell it AT ALL, I consider it secondhand smoke.
IMHO, smoking is a disgusting, offensive habit, and I personally can't respect someone 100% who doesn't respect their own health with such blatant disregard. Yes, I feel the same with other "abusers", like people on drugs and alcoholics (but not social drinkers).
- Aug 23, 2003
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Who defines what "casual exposure" is? I'm sure exposure is different between a person sitting 5 feet away downwind (or no wind) on a crowded beach vs. 50 feet upwind on an empty beach. So do we need to regulate how close smokers can get to other people in public? Maybe they should regulate entrance of smokers into public areas to keep the density of smokers to less than 1 smoker per 2 meters square (depending on weather conditions, of course).
I'm glad the people have decided on this issue (and they were pro-banning smoking). Smokers suck.
People such a big deal about smoking...especially in CA, areas of which have really bad smog polution and what not. Breathing the air in LA or many other major cities day in and day out is far worse than the second hand smoke you might endure for a few minutes here and there.
It's so funny that people in LA get their panties in a bunch over second hand smoke...recent research and medical autopsy have shown evidence that breathing LA air is roughly equivalent to living someplace with clean air and smoking 1-1.5 packs of cigarettes per day.
Denver, Sacramento, New York, Houston, and so forth (there a re tons of cities with polution probems)...your breathing air is bad. Fsck second hand smoke...worry about what you breath the other 99.9% percent of the time.
It's so funny that people in LA get their panties in a bunch over second hand smoke...recent research and medical autopsy have shown evidence that breathing LA air is roughly equivalent to living someplace with clean air and smoking 1-1.5 packs of cigarettes per day.
Denver, Sacramento, New York, Houston, and so forth (there a re tons of cities with polution probems)...your breathing air is bad. Fsck second hand smoke...worry about what you breath the other 99.9% percent of the time.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: Vic
Please...smoke-free, until you walk outside into that nasty black polluted sh!t you call "air".
When I go to CA, it's like ack, the air is black, it stinks, I can't hardly see through it, and I can't fscking breathe...
The irony of all the anti-smoking nuts there is never lost on me.
Bingo. Welcome to Mob Rule.
comparing cars to smokes are we? californians know about car pollution, which is why we have some of the toughest emissions standards in the country. although cars pollute the public's air, we can't ban cars since they have utility that is required, so a balance is what we go for. to balance the unreplacable utility of vehicles and with dirty air. smoking has no such unreplacable utility. don't even pretend it does.
democracy is about mob rule actually, good government is about protecting rights of individuals. that doesn't include the right of individuals to do whatever they want when it harmfully affects another person. its why we have laws against pollution, i'm sure you nazi f*cks would just love it if we could pollute as we wished, it goes with your philosophy, whats good for me is great, f*ck everyone else!
how about driving cars without licenses? insurance? 14 yr old buying guns? why not? i should be able to drive drunk if i bloody feel like it...my right to do what i wish trumps all else, if you get in my way, well... f*ck you all.
so really? wheres the irony
perhaps the idiot is the one who confuses second hand smoke with something harmless like skin color. you atleast seem to understand the concept that ones rights should not extend to things that are proven harmful to others, but yet you cling to the invalid premise that second hand smoke is harmless. it has nothing to do with like and dislike, its a matter of valid claims of harm.
All such news as this serves to do to me (smoker), is to find a way to make more money. More money, to get farther away, from people who want to run, tax , ban and try and clean up everything. If you don't like the smell of my BBQ, Wood Fire, Fish Smoker, Cigarette, etc.....then go back in YOUR house. As I grew up, I was always told that if you smoke, it is polite to take it outside. I always have. I don't smoke in the house, cars, or anyone's kids.
" tobacco costs between $97.2 billion and $155 billion in health care and lost productivity per year, in america. somewhere around 450,000 deaths per year, again, in america. " Yada, yada. I've been hearing this same drivel since I was 14 years old. Sure the numbers have changed, but I almost think people are healthier today.
One thing I've noticed, is when I grew up, all my friends parents smoked in the house, and I mean the house was filled with smoke. Same with cars...they would smoke with the windows up. I honestly believe that the smokers of today are healthier than what they were 2 decades ago. Why? Because we took it outside! Again, if you don't like it, go back in your house and mind your own business. You own that house, you do not own the out doors...or our beach. If the smoke bothers you, move a few feet down the beach. Plenty of room for everyone, IMO.
Just as there will always be Christians, Jews, Muslims, ect, people will always smoke, if they so desire. Good luck defeating any of them. Let's keep it real.
" tobacco costs between $97.2 billion and $155 billion in health care and lost productivity per year, in america. somewhere around 450,000 deaths per year, again, in america. " Yada, yada. I've been hearing this same drivel since I was 14 years old. Sure the numbers have changed, but I almost think people are healthier today.
One thing I've noticed, is when I grew up, all my friends parents smoked in the house, and I mean the house was filled with smoke. Same with cars...they would smoke with the windows up. I honestly believe that the smokers of today are healthier than what they were 2 decades ago. Why? Because we took it outside! Again, if you don't like it, go back in your house and mind your own business. You own that house, you do not own the out doors...or our beach. If the smoke bothers you, move a few feet down the beach. Plenty of room for everyone, IMO.
Just as there will always be Christians, Jews, Muslims, ect, people will always smoke, if they so desire. Good luck defeating any of them. Let's keep it real.
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
would only be comparable if you forced forkloads into your neighbors mouths
not to mention last time i checked, bbq charing is no where near as dangerous as cig smoke.
Okay fair point. I'm gonna get me some ribs.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Silence, idiot. We're not talking about indoor 2nd-hand smoke anymore, we're talking about outdoors -- where a single small car spews more pollutants in less than one minute than a 6-pack-a-day smoker (like John Wayne) could in an entire week.Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
comparing cars to smokes are we? californians know about car pollution, which is why we have some of the toughest emissions standards in the country. although cars pollute the public's air, we can't ban cars since they have utility that is required, so a balance is what we go for. to balance the unreplacable utility of vehicles and with dirty air. smoking has no such unreplacable utility. don't even pretend it does.
democracy is about mob rule actually, good government is about protecting rights of individuals. that doesn't include the right of individuals to do whatever they want when it harmfully affects another person. its why we have laws against pollution, i'm sure you nazi f*cks would just love it if we could pollute as we wished, it goes with your philosophy, whats good for me is great, f*ck everyone else!
how about driving cars without licenses? insurance? 14 yr old buying guns? why not? i should be able to drive drunk if i bloody feel like it...my right to do what i wish trumps all else, if you get in my way, well... f*ck you all.
so really? wheres the irony
Your 2nd paragraph here proved once and for all that (in addition to your terrible writing skills) you know nothing of government. Democracy does not and never has protected the rights of the individual. That is Libertarianism, or the Rule of Law. Democracy, when it devolves to Mob Rule, protects the interests and whims of the majority only. When depicting Mob Rule, the classic scene is that of an unruly majority hanging an unfortunate (and usually innocent) individual.
And... lovely attempts at analogy that make no sense at all. What'd you do, try to post and pop your pimples at the same time?
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
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Ca pisses me off. You guys realize you can only 4x4 and run your sand rails, motorcycles and ATV's on one beach in ca? Pismo..and only about 3 miles.. And they cordin off more and more of that beach each year. over 900mi of coast line, most empty, and you can't enjoy it:|... makes you wonder why to pay any taxes. Now you can't even smoke!!!
Well shoot, second hand smoke is far less harmful that breathing in second hand gasoline combustion engine exhaust, let's ban cars while we're at it. And model airplane glue. And rubber cement. And spray paint. And turpentine. And gas itself, while we're at it. That's it, I'm running for office.
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