Smokin': Used APC Battery Backup 1000VA for $200 @ Direct Deals; Replacement battery info

[invasivedoc]

According to Direct Deals customer service (the people with the $10 Norton disc) these are about six months old off a lease deal. They are checked and cleaned. The battery is not new, but one would think that after half a year you have some good life left. Price searching for the new product shows prices above $300 - the difference is approximately the price of a battery. They have about 30 units.

Link: http://www.directdeals.com/product.asp?id=549


***New Information***
www.digikey.com, catalog page K594 has panasonic sealed lead-acid batteries. For example my PNP650 takes a APC RBC4, cheapest I found was about $50.It is a 12V 11AH battery, by my measurements 151mm x 98mm x 94mm.
Digikey Part # P230-ND is a 12V 12 Ah battery with the same measurements with .250 spade connectors for $35.44 shipped!* A carton of 12 is $283.50 - smells like a package buy if you are in a similar neighborhood. I am ordering mine since Chicago Edison was acting up tonight and my PC was rebooting like crazy.

* domestic orders over $25 are shipped free if payment accompanies order - no credit cards.

Quantity Backordered
Item NumberP230-ND
Ordered Quantity:1
Back Ordered Quantity:1

Quantity Est. Ship Date
54 2-11-2001

 

[rgroves]

Well, these could've been abused. They could've been in UPS' that were used very heavily between Ac and Batt power and therefore their life expectancy would be shortened. Normally and UPS' battery life is 5 years from the date of manufacture. So, if these were used for 6 months, they could be almost 1 to 1 1/2 years old already.

Most of the APC batteries are from either CSB or another manuf. I found a local place that carries them at a good price. I picked up 4 12V 17Ah batteries for $45 each, APC was going to sell them to me for almost $90 each. RTeally, the only thing you need to match is the Volt and Amp-Hour rating ( i.e. 12V 15Ah ). You can fudge a little on the Amp-Hour rating. Once I've had were 15Ah, and I replaced them with 17Ah without a problem. Also, the dimensions of the batterie(s) themsleves need to be as close to teh original as possible or it will not fit into the APC enclosure.

If you do buy them beware, I would test the voltage on them immediately. They should read from 13.5v to 11.1v if the voltage reads less, the battery is probably shot and won't hold enough charge for any kind of UPS load.

Personally, I would only buy new batteries, but that's only because I've gotten used batteries from my work and other places only to be disappointed, and then had to find a place to take them for recycling (or tos them off a bridge into the lake in the middle of the night).

 

[FrankRizzo]

The batteries on these UPSs should last 3 years (give or take).

FWIW, I bought a used (off lease) APC Smart UPS 1400 NET from an Egghead auction for $99. They packaged it poorly and it got kind of beat up in shipping - however it works great and came with a tokenring card installed. Yeah I wish it was an ethernet card but... still.... that was a helluva deal for $99! The diagnostic tests show that the battery is in excellent condition.

 

[kof]

However - right now Circuit City B&M are selling 500VA ups for $100+tax with a total of $60 rebates, thus a 500VA for $40 plus your tax on $100.

 

[invasivedoc]

What I like about this unit is that it comes with a voltage regulator. We get frequent brownouts in our affluent suburban area. With the VR you don't have to go to battery to keep the voltage up, the box just adjusts it. Thanks for the advice, I hope I don't get a bum battery.

What do you think about using sealed/gel cell batteries, such as the ones used in Mazda Miata - You can get a Westco for about 80 bucks which will start my car!

e

 

[Gustavus]

I have two of the APC Smart UPS 1000VA units that I bought from NEI in Farmingdale, NY. Paid $166.50 for the two of them. I don't think they have any more, but the reason for chiming in here is if any of you buy one of these -- do not buy the APC RBC6 battery pack. They charge an exorbitant price for it. Either the PowerSonic PS12120 which is a 12v 12 amphour or the PS12100 which is a 12v 10 amphour are exact physical replacements. Most electronic stores carry the 10 amphour battery for around $40 and the 12 amphour battery for around $44. APC tries to conceal the specs to prevent cross matching batteries but I am fairly certain the APC RBC6 is a 12 volt 11 amphour battery . The UPS takes two batteries by the way, so changing batteries is an expensive proposition.

 

[Scrounger]

I got an old 2 KVA bastard here that needs 12 12V 7AH batteries that cost about $20 each. Talk about expensive! I think I'll recycle the whole thing before I drop $240 on it. To think I almost herniated myself taking this piece of crap home. It weighs more than a body rolled up in carpet with the batteries in it.

 

[Gustavus]

Scrounger
That is one helluva UPS. I would hate to have your battery replacement problem. Here I was complaining about a pair of batteries that cost between $80 and $90 total and you are faced with three times that. Do you need that much backup power?

 

[pjs]

Could be a decent deal, depending on how much it costs to ship 47 pounds of pulsating power pleasure backup!!

Paul

 

[Gustavus]

A note of possible interest to anyone buying one of these UPS. The Direct Deals ad doesn't mention, so I assume they don't include, APC's Powerchute software which comes with the UPS when you purchase it new and which allows the system to turn itself off gracefully in the event of a power failure. To buy the package -- serial cable and CD with the Powerchute software -- costs around $60. You can download the software from APC's site for free and fabricate the serial cable yourself. APC has their own connection scheme which they regard as proprietary, but you can find the hack for the serial cable connections here.

Serial

Depending on how you plan to use the UPS this information may be useful to you.

 

[kombatmud]

I used to deal with lease returns at my old company. 90% of the time we sent back UPSes, the batteries were completely dead. The other 10% of the time they were on their last legs. This was after more than 6 months, but keep in mind that UPSes can easily be overloaded, and in some corporate environments, they get a lot more use than they normally would, since they would be driving a server 24/7.

 

[Kwad Guy]

UPS units are one of the computer-related items that I would
most strongly recommend you not buy refurbished. The
battery is a consumable, and it WILL be consumed with use, even
if the unit is not abused. No matter what the seller tells you,
you should assume the battery will need quick replacement
in a UPS. So that adds at least about a hundred bucks to the price.
That makes it $300, effectively, for the APC. Add shipping,
which for these heavy units will be consequential, and you're
probably looking at $330-340 delivered. In my opinion, that's
not such a hot deal for a used (even with a new battery, it's
still used) UPS...

For comparison, I got a new in box 1000VA from CompGeeks about
half a year ago for around $160 or so delivered...THAT was a smokin' deal.

Kwad

 

[invasivedoc]

I would have bought one from the geeks at 160 if available. Hey what about using a marine deep cycle battery from Sams Club at about 50 bucks - just run the wires... Or a Gel Cell Miata battery.....

The shipping was reasonable though, under forty if I recall, maybe under thirty.

 

[Scrounger]

Gustavus,

I don't think I need that much power. When the batteries were still good I ran it for 4 hours with my computer on it before I got tired of waiting for some kind of sign that it was going to stop running. The batteries were 3 years old at the time.

I checked the nameplate and it is 83 kg or about 180 lbs. So maybe it only weighs more than a medium-sized female body rolled up in old carpet.

You know the batteries were in two parallel strings of batteries in series, so maybe I could just buy 6 batteries to get it running. It also appears to be an online UPS from the wiring diagram. I'm not sure though since the manual is obviously translated from Japanese.

 

[invasivedoc]

bump: see updated first post
e

 

[kingink]

Does anyone know about using a deep cell marine battery for backup. The powercompanies usually use PbSO4 batteries that weigh about 400-450lbs for backup power. Why not use the marine battery instead of all the cost and equipment used in UPS? Anyone who has tried it post here please.
kingink

 

[invasivedoc]

I don't recall where but there was a post a month or so ago about a DIY UPS. The standard marine deep discharge batteries are not sealed and so the spill risk must be considered. I would get one of the plastic enclosures to be on the safe side. You need to match the gauge of wire and use heavy duty connectors. The wires would have to me run into the unit from the outside as it would not fit in the APC enclosure - only a minor mod.

I would check out west marine stores or go to www.westmarine.com. They are terrific especially if you go to the store. As a price point of reference I think a std battery is about 70 AH and at sams club about $50.

Another alternative. My Mazda Miata uses a gel cel "spill free" automotive battery - the Westco brand. About $85 for ??50-60AH. Check out www.miata.net for more info...These batteries are not designed for deep cycle use however, but if you are substituting a battery 4x the capacity, I don't think it matters much ...heh...heh...heh...

e

 

[invasivedoc]

Update: b/o for about a month. I cancelled internet order and am mailing a new order with a check to get the free shipping.

e

p.s. check out the $60 rebate from circuit city on units w/o voltage regulator - just battery. great for the tv/stereo, etc.