Smartphone options for privacy

[cytg111]

The next round of changes will be AI, and that will involve massive amounts of personal data.

I know.
I want an Amazon Echo so bad.. but I despise the very nature of it.
It is the beginning of something wonderful and at the same time its the beginning of the end(for privacy).

 

[cytg111]

Here's your secure network:

You know, I could put a laser on that thread and measure the micro vibrations ....

 

[Commodus]

I know.
I want an Amazon Echo so bad.. but I despise the very nature of it.
It is the beginning of something wonderful and at the same time its the beginning of the end(for privacy).

The concern over these devices is somewhat overblown. A lot of people have the impression that these speakers are recording everything you say, and that you'll wake up one day with a gun in your face because you dared question President Trump in between asking for sports scores and playing music. The truth is, that's not how it works: they don't capture anything until they hear their keyword, and even then, they don't save your audio recording for posterity.

I look at it this way: are you comfortable with having a Google account? Then you're probably fine with using an Echo or Home. If not, I'll bet that Apple's rumored speaker will have a greater degree of privacy.

 

[poofyhairguy]

OP, look into CopperheadOS. It is designed for people in oppressive countries so that way they can have a smartphone and not be afraid its spying on them. It is basically hardened Android, and the people behind it are pretty bright.

I personally couldn't go that route because it doesn't have Google Play, which means no App Store. You can always sideload Apps, but that is often the #1 attack vector for malware in Android.

I also think an iPhone not tied to an iCloud account is pretty secure.

 

[dainthomas]

You know, I could put a laser on that thread and measure the micro vibrations ....

 

[Red Squirrel]

There's no reason cell phones have to be the tracking devices they are, the problem is with the software. Everything is built around tracking you. I'd love to see an option too for an OS/config that is not like that. I'm kind of in the market for a new phone too, I'm kind of eyeing the DTEK50 as it is built around privacy, but I think it's basically just a modified version of Android, so you probably still need a google account. As soon as you need to tie into some kind of account then you're automaticly no longer private. I want the phone to be a stand alone device that is not tied to any kind of account, and to get rid of all the Google stuff, but it's kind of hard to do that when they wrote the OS. Phone OSes are insecure by design though. Someone really needs to write a phone OS from scratch, like something that is basically equivalent to Linux.

With the DTEK50 I think you can specify/block permissions from apps though so there's that. Lot of apps want permission to stuff that they shouldn't, like your contacts or camera, so from what I read with the DTEK50 you can actually block specific permissions like that. Camera and mic especially should be totally off limits unless it's actually a recording app. then there's the fact that so many apps run in the background when they shouldn't. Who knows what they're doing, like taking screenshots, listening to your conversations, etc.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I know.
I want an Amazon Echo so bad.. but I despise the very nature of it.
It is the beginning of something wonderful and at the same time its the beginning of the end(for privacy).

Arduino/Raspberry PI is the answer. Voice stuff might be harder to do but I'm sure there are open source libraries for that, but really, after the novelty wears off you'll probably want to just do that stuff manually anyway through a web interface of sorts. I can control my furnace from anywhere, monitor UPS battery voltage, and few other things (I want to redesign it so it's more expandable) and it's all stuff I wrote myself. No cloud BS either. As soon as something is cloud based your privacy is basically gone. There's no reason why stuff has to be that way except for the fact that it seems to be the only pre-made options.

 

[ericlp]

ummm, asking privacy on a cellphone tied to any of the four major networks to get any type of cell service, than.... I hat to tell you there is NO PRIVACY.

On the other hand, if you bought a phone off of swappa or used and rooted it... maybe even put a new boot loader on it... Turned off everything but wifi, and used your phone to make wifi calls, I guess you could get some privacy that way, but, I am sure you want to use your phone a cell tower, forget it. Everything is on the digital network and I imagine any spoken word will get translated into a text filter and sent off the NSA. AI is a master in any language for speech to text.

Tho, back to wifi calling, you could use some sort of encryption or secure tunnel to point to point calling. That's the best you will do on a digital network besides using an VPN... Or making calls using public wifi.

Good Luck with it! And welcome to the real world. It's just going to get worse as time goes on. But then again, who knows, I wonder how many back doors are backed into the devices themselves and lets not forget about the privacy of a SIM card in of itself!

 

[Commodus]

ummm, asking privacy on a cellphone tied to any of the four major networks to get any type of cell service, than.... I hat to tell you there is NO PRIVACY.

On the other hand, if you bought a phone off of swappa or used and rooted it... maybe even put a new boot loader on it... Turned off everything but wifi, and used your phone to make wifi calls, I guess you could get some privacy that way, but, I am sure you want to use your phone a cell tower, forget it. Everything is on the digital network and I imagine any spoken word will get translated into a text filter and sent off the NSA. AI is a master in any language for speech to text.

Tho, back to wifi calling, you could use some sort of encryption or secure tunnel to point to point calling. That's the best you will do on a digital network besides using an VPN... Or making calls using public wifi.

Good Luck with it! And welcome to the real world. It's just going to get worse as time goes on. But then again, who knows, I wonder how many back doors are backed into the devices themselves and lets not forget about the privacy of a SIM card in of itself!

Think you're exaggerating a bit -- the NSA isn't recording the contents of all calls in the US, 'just' the metadata (the numbers involved, when the call happened, that sort of thing). That can still reveal something about your life, but even the NSA still needs specific permission to monitor the content of American calls... as far as we know, anyway.

I also think the concerns about Google accounts and such tend to be overblown. Not that you should never blindly hand over your info, but recognize that Google doesn't have people reading your email or tracking your every move. And if you want a compromise between Google's approach and not having a smartphone at all, go iPhone -- Apple has made a point of respecting privacy more explicitly than its rival.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Just because it's connected to a major network does not mean we should not be able to expect privacy about what we do when we are not using said network. Your computer is connected to the internet, do you just find it ok if people can log in to your computer at will and check everything, take screenshots, listen to you through your speakers etc? Why should it be different with cell phones. Sadly even with computers it is the case though because of the Intel cpu backdoors. AMD has it too, most likely. This constant war on privacy pisses me off really... We need a fully open source computing platform for both computers and phones.

 

[obidamnkenobi]

Just because it's connected to a major network does not mean we should not be able to expect privacy about what we do when we are not using said network. Your computer is connected to the internet, do you just find it ok if people can log in to your computer at will and check everything, take screenshots, listen to you through your speakers etc? Why should it be different with cell phones. Sadly even with computers it is the case though because of the Intel cpu backdoors. AMD has it too, most likely. This constant war on privacy pisses me off really... We need a fully open source computing platform for both computers and phones.

Exactly who is "logging into your phone, taking screenshots, listening through speakers etc."? Phone privacy has issues, but this kind of overblown hyperbole helps nobody

 

[Red Squirrel]

Exactly who is "logging into your phone, taking screenshots, listening through speakers etc."? Phone privacy has issues, but this kind of overblown hyperbole helps nobody

Apps are designed to allow this kind of stuff and phones are designed around this, for advertisers. They listen to your conversations to send you advertisements. This is how when you talk about something then later you start seeing ads for it on FB or even just random websites that use Google ads. Why do you think a calculator app needs access to your mic or camera, or why a keyboard needs access to your contacts. Heck, a lot of this has been proven with Facebook app, that thing is insane in how much of your info it gathers. Including your contacts. Contacts should be something that is 100% private, yet it gets leaked all the time. you can avoid most of these apps but the underlying OS is probably spying on you too.

This is the kind of privacy concerns we are trying to stop by wantng a better OS/phone.

 

[obidamnkenobi]

Apps are designed to allow this kind of stuff and phones are designed around this, for advertisers. They listen to your conversations to send you advertisements. This is how when you talk about something then later you start seeing ads for it on FB or even just random websites that use Google ads. Why do you think a calculator app needs access to your mic or camera, or why a keyboard needs access to your contacts. Heck, a lot of this has been proven with Facebook app, that thing is insane in how much of your info it gathers. Including your contacts. Contacts should be something that is 100% private, yet it gets leaked all the time. you can avoid most of these apps but the underlying OS is probably spying on you too.

This is the kind of privacy concerns we are trying to stop by wantng a better OS/phone.

Where can I read more about apps that listen to the mic and then show me ads? Did someone dig into the code and find this?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Where can I read more about apps that listen to the mic and then show me ads? Did someone dig into the code and find this?

I thought this was common knowledge. I just recall reading about it in various articles and such. They tend to pop up every now and then where people talk about it or test it etc. There's also some where they use inaudible sound waves to send info between other devices. Ex: a TV commercial or website might generate a certain tone that is then picked up by your phone or vise versa. Now your phone knows what you're watching and can start to show ads based on that. Or just the meer fact that both devices are now "linked". Further meta data will now point to you.

Here's an article I found, but it's specific to Facebook, but it does not stop any other companies from doing it:

http://www.webpronews.com/facebook-listens-2015-02/

More info here: http://www.infowars.com/smartphone-apps-now-use-microphone-to-record-your-conversations/
And here (it complains about adblocker but seems to let you view anyway) : http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...one-is-literally-listening-to-your-tv/416712/

Tons of stuff if you google, those are just quick random things I found. It's not just the voice recording that is a problem but simply the overall collection of data. Stuff you do/search for on your phone, etc.

I've seen weird stuff myself, like talking about something then get something related to it show up in my Youtube feed. Everything you do on your phone or around your phone is recorded, either audiobly or text (stuff you search for etc). Then all this info is sold to advertisers.

What's scary is that this kind of stuff is now in windows 10, and most people don't even care. We are threading VERY dangerous grounds. People need to wake up and realize just how bad this mass surveillance state is, and fight it. First step is to demand more private products, if products are built with privacy in mind from ground up it would help, but they arn't.

 

[Red Squirrel]

So I decided to order that DTEK50, will let you all know how it goes! I mean, it's kinda hard to know for sure how private something is, but can probably get a general idea by the settings etc, but still requires some trust in their modifications of the software.

What I'm hoping to see is that it can be used without having to sign in to google. They don't specify this anywhere so I'll find out when I get it.