SLI or "CROSSFIRE"

Jun 11, 2005
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ive beed research ing about ATI's new multi gpu technology and i have to admit it sounds quite intreeging, me being mainly a nVidia man myself, not that i dont like ATI its just that SLI sealed the deal for me, but now with ATI's new Multi GPU technology coming out in july (rumored) im right back at the start. Even though nVidia have their new generation of graphics cards being unveiled in 10 days, with SLI capabulities (only naturaly) it still brings a smile to my face thinking of the power of two watercooled x850xt's in an AMD 4000+ rig. SWEET.

However, at the moment SLI seems like it will be the more affordable of the two multi gpu technologies, as it has the 6600GT with the capabilities of SLI and the cheapest card that will have the "CROSSFIRE" technology is the x800!!! so unless you have money to burn or are just stone mad dont expect to see a decent ATI, multi gpu rig standing beside your legs as you are blasting your way through HALF-LIFE 2 or COUNTER STRIKE: SOURCE, without being $3000 less in the bank...for now. But if you are a normal person , you are just going to have to wait for the price to fall on the ATI "CROSSFIRE" cards, which wont be for a good year as the first "CROSSFIRE" cards shipping are in late July, and they are the x850's, with the x800's coming in August. again these are just dates put out there by ATI as a reference for the estimated date of release and to add to a delay even more, ATI dont have a reputation for having the most avalible, top of the line cards.

The interesting though about the "CROSSFIRE" technology is that unlike SLI, there is no bridge connection, the two cards are simply joined by DVI out port of the "SLAVE" card, and another very intreaging feature is that the two cards do not have to be r=the same. that means however that the two cards will rin at the clock speed of the slower card, which kind of defeats the purpose, but means that you dont have to upgrade both of your GPU's which is the case in SLI, just simply replace the slowest card.

in my opinion however, i feel that ATI have come in too late in the multi GPU market for any major success any time soon. i'd say that it will take about a year to get to the stage that SLI is at now, what with the affordability of cards and what not and by the time that ATI do get a fair grip on things nVidia and SLI will be nice and snug with a tight grip on the market. Also, i have a funny feeling that the x800 and x850 cards with this feature will be a bit more expensive that the ones out now (which are expensive enough) so people will be able to see the true cost of this technology, where as you dont see this with SLI, if a card is SLI compatable the only version you will find that is not is the AGP one, which are practicaly the same price anyway. Most people who were building a new pc in the past few months, jumped on the SLI bandwaggon anyway (including myself) and i know i cant speak for anyone else but i wont be changing any time soon.

for further information on the "CROSSFIRE" technology, visit these URL's:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/31/ati_crossfire/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/19/ati_crossfire/
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
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If I could get one, I'd get crossfire, but only because I already have a X800XL.

But seriously, I don't think anybody's going to pick one or the other because of the the features of teh dual GPU solution, they are going pick based on which one supports the faster cards.
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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My opinion (sorry if it comes across rude) is that people should stop making these damn threads and wait until the actual product is released!
 

SVT Cobra

Lifer
Mar 29, 2005
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Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
My opinion (sorry if it comes across rude) is that people should stop making these damn threads and wait until the actual product is released!

:thumbsup:
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
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I have owned 3/4 currently available SLI rigs (still have two) and they all worked great and had their good points.
I can't comment on Crossfire because I haven't used it, other than their is NO WAY I'd buy a high end Crossfire rig with SM2 cards because a. the GPU is dated, feature-less b. the G70 will be available in two weeks and cost less/perform close to smae with more features c. SLI is cheaper, has SM3, EXR HDR and soft shadows
 

TourGuide

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2000
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Originally posted by: Rollo
I have owned 3/4 currently available SLI rigs (still have two) and they all worked great and had their good points.
I can't comment on Crossfire because I haven't used it, other than their is NO WAY I'd buy a high end Crossfire rig with SM2 cards because a. the GPU is dated, feature-less b. the G70 will be available in two weeks and cost less/perform close to smae with more features c. SLI is cheaper, has SM3, EXR HDR and soft shadows

Those are all good points Rollo.

I still think Crossfire is a better technology simply because it is not tied to any special "profile" in the drivers. It is supposed to work with any game, all the time. Profiles in the Crossfire drivers are supposed to further enhance specific game performance. nV made a mistake in this regard tying SLI functionality to these profiles.

It seems to me that the ATI vs nVidia debate lately has tilted back and forth between performance and features. Each company has claimed the upper hand at each in different time frames. Right now nV has more features.

At the moment - I own ATI cards for two reasons. First the IQ that my cards put out continues to be better (on the desktop) than any nV cards I have owned in recent memory. Second - at the time I bought them they were the top performing cards for the games I was concerned about playing. The other games performed just fine for me. I do not want to get into a "my e-penis is bigger than yours" debate here. nV has the upper hand in open gl - ATI gets the crown in DirectX.

In spite of the fact that crossfire may be more functional than SLI, ATI may end up loosing this in the end for one reason only - supply. It doesn't matter if you have a better technolgy when low supply drives the prices sky-high you are going to loose customers to the competing company who can supply product in the retail channel and beat you on price. And like Rollo said - "the G70 will be available in two weeks and cost less/perform close to smae".

Availability will be THE key factor here.
 

TourGuide

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2000
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Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I still think Crossfire is a better technology

How can you possibly know!?!? You cannot judge a product that hasn't been released!!!

-Kevin


I suppose for SOME - I should have prefaced the post with

BASED ON WHAT I'VE READ ABOUT crossfire.
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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Well then do that. No one in the world can make an accurate review of a product that they have not seen, and do not have access to. Instead of starting ANOTHER one of these threads, why dont you wait until the cards are released so you can back your arguments up with good solid fact.

-Kevin
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: TourGuide
Originally posted by: Rollo
I have owned 3/4 currently available SLI rigs (still have two) and they all worked great and had their good points.
I can't comment on Crossfire because I haven't used it, other than their is NO WAY I'd buy a high end Crossfire rig with SM2 cards because a. the GPU is dated, feature-less b. the G70 will be available in two weeks and cost less/perform close to smae with more features c. SLI is cheaper, has SM3, EXR HDR and soft shadows

Those are all good points Rollo.

I still think Crossfire is a better technology simply because it is not tied to any special "profile" in the drivers. It is supposed to work with any game, all the time. Profiles in the Crossfire drivers are supposed to further enhance specific game performance. nV made a mistake in this regard tying SLI functionality to these profiles.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1606068&enterthread=y

The problem with this is ATI does have profiles, they just mislead people into thinking they don't. Profiles are necessary for AFR. The only difference in SLI and Crossfire is Crossfire defaults to two types of SLI rendering and SLI defaults to one. Neither is guaranteed to provide benefit, it's up to the user to test.
Also, nVidia is coming out with 16X AA for SLI, so the only real differences will be nV has SM3/soft shadows, EXR HDR, and ATI will have tiling.

I don't know about you, but to me, tiling (the least beneficial of SLI types, nV opted not to use it) isn't worth using ye olde R350 feature set?


 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
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availability, stability and performance is the keywords here, and as already pointed out no comments until the products are actually here.

But no crossfire with current ATi cards, as Rollo pointed out, lack of features.

Also 512Mb videoram on a single next gen card should be much sweeter than two cards with 256 mb.
 

hippotautamus

Senior member
Apr 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: biostud
availability, stability and performance is the keywords here, and as already pointed out no comments until the products are actually here.

But no crossfire with current ATi cards, as Rollo pointed out, lack of features.

Also 512Mb videoram on a single next gen card should be much sweeter than two cards with 256 mb.

There's not a whole lot of logic in that. Two cores + double the memory bandwidth < more vram?

I think not. The 512mb variant of the 6800U doesn't really gain anything in terms of performance. Nextgen cards will be a little better, but it's not like it's going to be a night and day difference.

As for Crossfire vs. Sli, if Crossfire works the way it's supposed to, it'll be a far superior product to SLI. It's more flexible, an easier upgrade path, and has the potential to be a better performer than Sli (assuming the trend of ATI cards outperforming nVidia cards in games that aren't optimised to do the opposite *doom3* holds true)

I'm a little bit of a fanboy, being Canadian, but you can't argue with the facts lol.

 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,604
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Originally posted by: hippotautamus
Originally posted by: biostud
availability, stability and performance is the keywords here, and as already pointed out no comments until the products are actually here.

But no crossfire with current ATi cards, as Rollo pointed out, lack of features.

Also 512Mb videoram on a single next gen card should be much sweeter than two cards with 256 mb.

There's not a whole lot of logic in that. Two cores + double the memory bandwidth < more vram?

Textures only need to be stored once on a single card.

I think not. The 512mb variant of the 6800U doesn't really gain anything in terms of performance. Nextgen cards will be a little better, but it's not like it's going to be a night and day difference.
It all depend on the software, now everything is geared for 128/256mb boards, with doom III having a Ultra setting for 512mb cards that isn't that much better than high. With the use of 3Dc and high res textures in next generations games it might prove usefull.

As for Crossfire vs. Sli, if Crossfire works the way it's supposed to, it'll be a far superior product to SLI. It's more flexible, an easier upgrade path, and has the potential to be a better performer than Sli (assuming the trend of ATI cards outperforming nVidia cards in games that aren't optimised to do the opposite *doom3* holds true)
I think that most will try to get same generation of cards no matter if the select SLI or Crossfire. I still don't understand how crossfire would work on cards with different generations of shaders etc. And SLI drivers seems to improve still, so I think they will have a well working solution. We still need to see crossfire in real action.




 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: hippotautamus

As for Crossfire vs. Sli, if Crossfire works the way it's supposed to, it'll be a far superior product to SLI. It's more flexible, an easier upgrade path, and has the potential to be a better performer than Sli (assuming the trend of ATI cards outperforming nVidia cards in games that aren't optimised to do the opposite *doom3* holds true)

I'm a little bit of a fanboy, being Canadian, but you can't argue with the facts lol.


We can't speculate on what Crossfire will and won't do, and the fact that it's a product of Canada is irrelevant.

You want to talk about where tech trade lives? It's here and Japan, not Canada. Every cpu in every computer in the world was designed here in the US. The vast majority of motherboard chipsets? US. The OS everyone in the world uses? US. The Office suite everyone in the world uses? US. The sound cards everyone in the world uses? US. Etc.

There wouldn't be computer gaming as we know it without US firms driving it, and the fact that ATI was able to purchase ArtX (a US firm) and sell US tech as Canadian for the last three years has little to do with "Canadian ingenuity". Before that ATI was pretty much a second tier vendor, picking up the pieces behind nVidia and 3dfx.

I have nothing against Canada, think it's a great neighbor, but who cares where the stuff is made?

 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: Rollo
I have owned 3/4 currently available SLI rigs (still have two) and they all worked great and had their good points.
I can't comment on Crossfire because I haven't used it, other than their is NO WAY I'd buy a high end Crossfire rig with SM2 cards because a. the GPU is dated, feature-less b. the G70 will be available in two weeks and cost less/perform close to smae with more features c. SLI is cheaper, has SM3, EXR HDR and soft shadows

SLI is cheaper? How? Because you can get 2x6600GT. That's not cheaper really, that's stupid, since 1x6800GT is better/cheaper than that.
There's not much point in low end SLI/Crossfire, because, well, the power offered by SLI/CF can be gained by buying a cheaper higher end product (cheaper than the SLI/CF setup).
1xX800XL CF edition + X800 would be around the same cost as 2x6800 vanilla I would assume (although I don't know US prices - I can only assume from UK prices) - so cost isn't a factor.
This late in the game though, SLI/CF is pointless, because as I said, why buy 2 cheaper cards when you can buy 1 higher end card for less (ie: a next gen card would be better than 2 current gen cards in SLI/CF one would assume, and cheaper too).
Unless you already have 2/3rds of a multi GPU rig (mobo + graphics card) going SLI/CF isn't worthwhile at this point with current cards from ATi OR nVidia, IMO.
 
Jun 11, 2005
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Originally posted by: paadness
Everyone starts the same way, writes huge threads to make his presence felt.

lol guess you kinda figured me out, but still its an intresting debate non the less.

Originally posted by: Lonyo

SLI is cheaper? How? Because you can get 2x6600GT. That's not cheaper really, that's stupid, since 1x6800GT is better/cheaper than that.

actualy, in many tests conducted it actualy shows that 2x6600GT's can out perform a single 6800GT in almost if not all aspects e.g. 3d score (a 6800GT hardly scores twice what a 6600GT does in 3d tests, so why would it beat two), FPS, forinstance DOOM3

1x6800GT @ 1280x1024= 71Fps

2x6600GT @ 1280x1024= 79Fps

mobo: ASUS A8N Sli DELUXE

the list goes on, and now that they have 6600GT's with 256mb of GDDR3 RAM the scores are even higher.
 

coomar

Banned
Apr 4, 2005
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the x800 xl matches with the x800 crossfire so 4 of its pipes may end up being disabled
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
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Originally posted by: Lonyo
Originally posted by: Rollo
I have owned 3/4 currently available SLI rigs (still have two) and they all worked great and had their good points.
I can't comment on Crossfire because I haven't used it, other than their is NO WAY I'd buy a high end Crossfire rig with SM2 cards because a. the GPU is dated, feature-less b. the G70 will be available in two weeks and cost less/perform close to smae with more features c. SLI is cheaper, has SM3, EXR HDR and soft shadows

SLI is cheaper? How? Because you can get 2x6600GT. That's not cheaper really, that's stupid, since 1x6800GT is better/cheaper than that.
There's not much point in low end SLI/Crossfire, because, well, the power offered by SLI/CF can be gained by buying a cheaper higher end product (cheaper than the SLI/CF setup).
1xX800XL CF edition + X800 would be around the same cost as 2x6800 vanilla I would assume (although I don't know US prices - I can only assume from UK prices) - so cost isn't a factor.
This late in the game though, SLI/CF is pointless, because as I said, why buy 2 cheaper cards when you can buy 1 higher end card for less (ie: a next gen card would be better than 2 current gen cards in SLI/CF one would assume, and cheaper too).
Unless you already have 2/3rds of a multi GPU rig (mobo + graphics card) going SLI/CF isn't worthwhile at this point with current cards from ATi OR nVidia, IMO.

SLI is cheaper because 6800GTs and Ultras dont cost the $549 MSRP you HOPE to pay for a X850 master card.