Sleep Apnea......Anyone have it?

[randypj]

I'm talkin' bout the real thing.....not just insomnia. The thing where you may slightly wake up numerous times in a night, in fact, even several hundred times is possible. You don't get quality sleep, because you get very little REM sleep.

Reason I'm askin' is that I am being tested for it tonight. I go in and get electrodes attached, then sleep. They do it in the epilepsy center of my hospital. I'm almost sure I have it because I wake up and feel like I haven't even slept, and, often as I'm falling asleep, my uvula gets caught, and I wake myself up. BTW, definition of uvula: "A small, conical, fleshy mass of tissue suspended from the center of the soft palate." Also known as "that hangy down thing in the back of your mouth."

Anyway, I'd be interested in knowing who's been tested for it, and what they did to relieve it. I know there is the positive airflow mask, and, I think, a mouthpiece, and even surgery.

I've demonstrated to my ENT how much better I can breathe if I jut my lower jaw forward. What really convinced him, was when I told him I could lay my head down on his desk, be asleep in 10 minutes, and be dreaming 5 minutes later. I know you don't normally dream that quickly, cause you don't go to REM that fast. But, I do. He said it was my body forcing REM ASAP, because I was REM deprived.
--Randy

 

[Ornery]

I'll be watching this topic and bumping on occasion. I had a pre-op exam last year and mentioned my temper to the nurse. She suggested looking into sleep apnea. She said it could be life changing! My wife and kids say I snore pretty heavily, I do wake up in the night quite a bit and damn, my temper ain't so great! Maybe I'll look into this while I still have decent health coverage...

 

[911paramedic]

Pulling your jaw forward opens your airway, it moves the back of your toung off the back of the throat. (put simply) We even have a "jaw thrust" move for opening airways as medics. After you intubate a few dozen people you really look at the airway differently, and think "wow, that is really interesting how all that stuff works".

Oh your definition: BTW, definition of uvula: "A small, conical, fleshy mass of tissue suspended from the center of the soft palate." Also known as "that hangy down thing in the back of your mouth."

Should read: BTW, it is the "punching bag" hanging in the back of your mouth. 😀



I hope they can figure out what the problem is, I cant sleep for shite either. I dream a lot because I can remember almost every dream I have, so I know I am getting my REM sleep. I wake up screaming every so often.....scared the piss out of my ex once......and I don't like that a bit. I have a few bad dreams related to patients/victims, but my waking thoughts of the good calls outweighs the bad. 😉

 

[randypj]

Ornery,

Do you find that you can fall asleep just about anytime during the day that you want? Does your wife notice that you sometimes quit breathing, or sort of choke/snore yourself awake? I notice it does seem to make a difference in my temper, also. It'll be interesting to see what they find with me tonight.
--Randy

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: randypj
Ornery,

Do you find that you can fall asleep just about anytime during the day that you want? Does your wife notice that you sometimes quit breathing, or sort of choke/snore yourself awake? I notice it does seem to make a difference in my temper, also. It'll be interesting to see what they find with me tonight.
--Randy

I wish I could fall asleep anytime. I have a hard time falling alseep and wake up at about 4:30 every morning (even if I was up until midnight)

I took some sleep aids from a doc but it made me so drowsy during the daytime it was not practical.



I know some people with sleep apnea have oxygen tanks and a small nasal mask so that even when your airway is blocked a bit your oxygen concentration stays high. Oxygen in the air around you (go ahead, take a look at it) is only about 21%, and your body starts getting funny if it drops below about 15%. So the extra oxygen at 100% helps with that problem.

 

[randypj]

911paramedic--Very interesting stuff. No way I could do your job.

Another thing.....maybe of interest. I have had, since I was a kid, a hyper-sensitive uvula. Sometimes if I swallow a drink just wrong, or even a burp after a drink of soda, getting just a little bit of moisture on my uvula, my uvula closes up. It's a really scary feeling the first few times. Can't breathe and you're trying to pull a deep breath in, but no air will pull in. You're out of air, and can't pull any in. I've found that I have to stay calm, close my mouth, and breath in through my nose only. This works. However, it's a bear trying to recover, taking deep breaths in through your nose only. I've gotten pretty good at it though. It can happen in a group, and I can recover without anyone having a clue. BTW, I have had this happen while I'm asleep, which of course wakes me up real good.

In my early 20's, I asked an ENT about this. He told me it was a reflex to prevent water from going into your lungs, and mine was just super sensitive. So......what do I do bout it? He said, no problem, worst case is that you'll pass out, and your autonomic nervous system will release it, and you'll be able to breathe again. Sound correct?
--Randy

 

[Ornery]

Nope, I can't. I don't really feel too tired throughout the day either. Then again, I'm not in such a great mood generally. I notice the more sleep I get, the more amicable I am. Perhaps I just have a mild case?

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: randypj
911paramedic--Very interesting stuff. No way I could do your job.

Another thing.....maybe of interest. I have had, since I was a kid, a hyper-sensitive uvula. Sometimes if I swallow a drink just wrong, or even a burp after a drink of soda, getting just a little bit of moisture on my uvula, my uvula closes up. It's a really scary feeling the first few times. Can't breathe and you're trying to pull a deep breath in, but no air will pull in. You're out of air, and can't pull any in. I've found that I have to stay calm, close my mouth, and breath in through my nose only. This works. However, it's a bear trying to recover, taking deep breaths in through your nose only. I've gotten pretty good at it though. It can happen in a group, and I can recover without anyone having a clue. BTW, I have had this happen while I'm asleep, which of course wakes me up real good.

In my early 20's, I asked an ENT about this. He told me it was a reflex to prevent water from going into your lungs, and mine was just super sensitive. So......what do I do bout it? He said, no problem, worst case is that you'll pass out, and your autonomic nervous system will release it, and you'll be able to breathe again. Sound correct?
--Randy

It is not your uvula that is closing your airway, it's your epiglottis. That is a small "thingy" that closes the trachea (windpipe) when you swallow. If something irritates or stimulates the epiglottis it closes, so you cannot breath. That is why there are so many "dry drownings", it is because you take in some water and the epiglottis spasms and closes. Most drownings are "dry", which means that there is no actual water in the lungs.

The uvula has nothing to do with airway control, at least that I know of and I have read too many books on anatomy and physiology.


EDIT: I know so much about the epiglottis because it is a major landmark I look for when putting in breathing tubes. I know about the drowning because I am a paramedic, and because I am a master scuba instructor. 😉

 

[Azraele]

I dream in vivid REM a lot. And I remember my dreams, even dreams I had in childhood. I need about 9 to 9.5 hours of sleep a night to feel good the next day, and on nights where the REM is really intense, I tend to feel tired. I don't wake up during the night, except to turn over.

Also known as "that hangy down thing in the back of your mouth."

Hehe, that cracked me up for some reason. 😛

I hope they find out the source of your problem and fix it asap. 🙂

 

[elekid]

i have it, but a lite version, i hate my life!

 

[tcsenter]

I've demonstrated to my ENT how much better I can breathe if I jut my lower jaw forward. What really convinced him, was when I told him I could lay my head down on his desk, be asleep in 10 minutes, and be dreaming 5 minutes later. I know you don't normally dream that quickly, cause you don't go to REM that fast. But, I do. He said it was my body forcing REM ASAP, because I was REM deprived.

Interesting post. I am seeing a sleep specialist and had an overnight somnography (sleep test with all the bells and whistles). The doctor said I had borderline sleep apnea, I don't fully obstruct and stop breathing altogether, but I snore like crazy in certain positions, which decreases the O2 concentration in my blood. What really sucked, is that I had to stay on my back for this test, which is the position I snore the worst in (and virtually everyone else). I am a side-belly sleeper and I don't snore much in those positions.

I had to use this C-PAP machine for a month, even though I only used it for a week because it was irritating as hell, to see if there was an improvement in my symptoms. There wasn't.

This was all to rule out obstructive apnea as a contributing factor of my symptoms. But I originally went there for narcolepsy and cataplexy. Has anyone mentioned narcolepsy to you?

The reason I ask, it is textbook of narcoleptics to hit REM sleep very quickly, even before the rest of their brain has settled down. This can result in hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations, which I have daily.

 

[ObiDon]

This can result in hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations, which I have daily.

Is that when you have "dreams" but aren't asleep? If it is, I get those sometimes. It only happens when I'm really tired though.

 

[dirtboy]

I've been tested for apnea, but they say I don't have it. I had septoplasty to hopefully improve my sleep and that didn't do much, so I'm guessing I have chronic insomnia.

 

[tcsenter]

Is that when you have "dreams" but aren't asleep? If it is, I get those sometimes. It only happens when I'm really tired though.

Correct. Hypnagogic is the REM/dream center of your brain is being stimulated too early, before the cognitive areas of your brain have fully settled into a deeper plane of sleep. So you're in that 'in between' stage, between complete relaxation and sleep, yet you're dreaming, and it can seem as though you are actually experiencing your dream - very intense and vivid.

Its also commonly associated with sleep paralysis and narcolepsy. Its normal for most people to experience sleep paralysis and hallucinations on rare ocassion (a few times per year), but narcoleptics can have them daily. Hypnopompic hallucinations occur on the other end of the sleep/wake cycle and are caused by the REM part of your brain failing to 'turn-off' before you're awake. I get to have them both, lucky me.

 

[randypj]

Whoa......you guys are way beyond my medical upbringin'

911paramedic--Thanks for rememberin' me that it was epiglottis. Do you know:

1. Why I can still breathe through my nose, when my epiglottis closes, but can't suck through my mouth?
2. Does it sound correct, that worst case would be that I would pass out, and the epiglottis would release, allowing me to breathe? Whatever......it isn't fun. 🙁


tcsenter--I'm not sure what test I'm getting, cept I'm there all night, and they hook electrodes up to me. I gotta wear a front button shirt so they have easy access to hookup. No, we haven't talked about narcolepsy. I don't have hallucinations nor fall asleep without warning, in mid sentence, like a guy at work does. But, I realize that there are different levels of narcolepsy, so we'll see. I'm pretty much game to try any mask or appliance to see if it'll help. I have experienced sleep paralysis, but only rarely.
--Randy

 

[GrumpyMan]

I think I have sleep apnea too. Sometimes I snore so much that I actually wake up with a sore throat. I have been known when I was heavier to wake up drowning in my own stomach fluid that was inhaled into my lungs. Painful stuff to say the least. I now make sure that I eat 4 to 5 hours before bedtime and it does not occur. Hope your test helps in fixing your problem.

 

[mcveigh]

I am a Polysomnagraphic technologist. (AKA a "sleep tech")

randy, I am the person who actually does the sleep test on you.

sleep apnea is very common, my step-dad has it, my mother-in law, my uncle..... they estimate 100 million americans have a sleeping disorder. (that's 1 out of 3)
sleep apnea is the most common sleeping disorder I see in the lab, it's about 90% of our tests.
apnea means "without breath" there are 3 types of apnea, obstructive, central, and mixed. Obsrtuctive is the most common, you airway physically collapses (pinches shut) and blocks the air flow. you are still trying to breathe. eventually your body panics and creates enough pressure to break through the obstruction. this is when you wake up, not necessarily wake up to the point you are aware of it, but wake up to a lite sleep from a good deep sleep. this makes you tired and irratable all the time.
you aren't getting enough sleep!!!!

other POSSIBLE symptoms, high blood pressure, acid reflux/heartburn, falling asleep at wrong times, SNORING!!

the best treatment by far is the CPAP device, that mask you heard about, the surgery is suck.
I know all options for treatment and I have my family members on the CPAP device.

 

[mcveigh]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

I took some sleep aids from a doc but it made me so drowsy during the daytime it was not practical.



I know some people with sleep apnea have oxygen tanks and a small nasal mask so that even when your airway is blocked a bit your oxygen concentration stays high. Oxygen in the air around you (go ahead, take a look at it) is only about 21%, and your body starts getting funny if it drops below about 15%. So the extra oxygen at 100% helps with that problem.

try ambien or sonata for sleeping aids, they are designed to be out of you system in like 4 hours so you don't feel them when you wake up, I know if I take other sleep aids like restoril, for example, I feel like crap the next day.

most people on cpap don't need oxygen, the cpap only gives higher pressure room air, it prevents the airway from closing off, there fore they can breathe fine, and don't need O2, some people have lung damage or the breathing volume decrases when they sleep and need supplemental O2 then. I'm sure you know your O2 should never drop below 90%

 

[Linflas]

I had the surgery for this in 1997 and it helped some. I no longer stop breathing when I sleep but when I had the post operative sleep test I still kick while I sleep which disrupts my sleep to some degree. I also get bouts of insomnia but I think it is mainly due to my working hours more than anything else since I never have it on weekends. A couple times before I had the surgery I experienced "battered uvula". I would wake up and feel like something was caught in the back of my throat and it would turn out to be my uvula. From what I read and was told by my doctor my breathing was so obstructed it would cause the uvula to swell during the night.

 

[randypj]

Seth--Thanks for the info.

My otolaryngologist has already had me try some things:

1. Eat at least 4 hours before bed.
2. Switch from Flonase to TriNasal spray.
3. Take Aciphex daily.
4. Raise the head of the bed about 4".

Doing the above does seem to have helped some. I don't have the "sore uvuala" feeling as often. But, I still feel like I have a hunk in the back of my throat. He said the acid reflux appeared to have swollen it about 25%. He said my uvula is larger than normal, but not so much as he wants to get out the knife (whew......) I hadn't realized that acid reflux would have as much effect on it as it seems to. I wouldn't mind a CPAP device at all.

Linflas--I know the feeling. "caught in the back of the throat". Don't they have something they can do for the night leg kicking?
--Randy

 

[mcveigh]

Originally posted by: randypj
Seth--Thanks for the info.

My otolaryngologist has already had me try some things:

1. Eat at least 4 hours before bed.
2. Switch from Flonase to TriNasal spray.
3. Take Aciphex daily.
4. Raise the head of the bed about 4".

Doing the above does seem to have helped some. I don't have the "sore uvuala" feeling as often. But, I still feel like I have a hunk in the back of my throat. He said the acid reflux appeared to have swollen it about 25%. He said my uvula is larger than normal, but not so much as he wants to get out the knife (whew......) I hadn't realized that acid reflux would have as much effect on it as it seems to. I wouldn't mind a CPAP device at all.

Linflas--I know the feeling. "caught in the back of the throat". Don't they have something they can do for the night leg kicking?
--Randy

all those are treating the symptoms not the cause.
we get people in the lab all the time who are on prilosec or something else due to acid reflux, pill B for depression....prozac for everyone!!, pill C for headaches, (from oxygen dropping during the night), Pill D to goto sleep at night because they are paranoid from waking up everyother minute.
/end rant

Being overweight is the number one cause of sleep apnea BTW

 

[tcsenter]

tcsenter--I'm not sure what test I'm getting, cept I'm there all night, and they hook electrodes up to me. I gotta wear a front button shirt so they have easy access to hookup. No, we haven't talked about narcolepsy. I don't have hallucinations nor fall asleep without warning, in mid sentence, like a guy at work does. But, I realize that there are different levels of narcolepsy, so we'll see. I'm pretty much game to try any mask or appliance to see if it'll help. I have experienced sleep paralysis, but only rarely.

Sounds like a standard overnight polysomnography. Apnea is much more common than narcolepsy, and there isn't anything about your symptoms that is inconsistent with apnea. Just thought I would ask since I'm going through the same thing, albiet for different reasons.

Yeah, the C-PAP is worth trying. I've known a few people who swear that a C-PAP machine really changed their life for the better.

 

[Ornery]

Yikes, Continuous Positive Airway Pressure devices cost a lot! Hell, and another couple hundred for a mask! :Q

I noticed some require a doctor's Rx. Could I get an Rx without testing? Which unit is the best? Which mask? Is there a lower priced place to get one?

Thanks for this awesome info, mcveigh!

 

[mcveigh]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Yikes, Continuous Positive Airway Pressure devices cost a lot! Hell, and another couple hundred for a mask! :Q

I noticed some require a doctor's Rx. Could I get an Rx without testing? Which unit is the best? Which mask? Is there a lower priced place to get one?

Thanks for this awesome info, mcveigh!

ALL CPAP'S NEED A RX!! you can actually cause sleep apnea by haveing a cpap at a wrong pressure.!!!
yes they are expensive. If anyone is interested I have a few cpap's for sale Remstar LX models from respironics, A fellow tech and I are working on an ecommerce site to sell sleep related products. it's not ready yet though.
PM me if you're interested, I can beat any price (almost!) 😉
cpap's are pretty generic, a few have some nice features though, really they are glorified air compressors. the masks are where you want to take your time and find one you can wear throughout the night. unfortunately they are expensive.

if anyone has more questions let's post em here!
😀

 

[Ornery]

Oh man, what an undertaking. Just started poking around. Read that the Silenzio Delta is pretty choice. I also see what you mean about the masks... ugh!

Guess I better make an appointment. Damn, I don't even have a GP!