Slavery was good thing, says AR GOP'er

[Agent11]

The two are apples and oranges you cannot compare the slavery of Africans to the holocaust because they were very different events.

Anyways, if you want to look at it objectively without any moral implications you could argue that the decedents of the slaves are much better off because of the fate of their ancestors, even if such an argument is highly insulting.

The only way to do it is to compare the mortality/birth rates and gdp ppp of the US (or north and south america, to be fairer) and Africa, slavery times to present, averaged. Subtract the estimated statistics of the slaves that died in transit from the American side of the equation and see which comes out ahead.

Amoral and insulting? Yes. But true. The sort of thing a politician would have to be retarded to say.

I feel much worst for the slaves that went to the middle east than any where else.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

The two are apples and oranges you cannot compare the slavery of Africans to the holocaust because they were very different events.

Anyways, if you want to look at it objectively without any moral implications you could argue that the decedents of the slaves are much better off because of the fate of their ancestors, even if such an argument is highly insulting.

The only way to do it is to compare the mortality/birth rates and gdp ppp of the US and Africa, slavery times to present, averaged. Subtract the estimated statistics of the slaves that died in transit from the American side of the equation and see which comes out ahead.

Amoral and insulting? Yes. But true. The sort of thing a politician would have to be retarded to say.

The problem with this logic is that it assumes that things in Africa would have transpired identically without the slave trade to the West (and potentially a lessened impact of colonialism). That's not a fair assumption to make. We have absolutely no idea what might have transpired had slavery never been brought to the new world; it's all speculation. Sure, if you look at things now, you can objectively say that America is better than Africa, but without considering how the history of slavery has shaped both, that's sort of a meaningless thought exercise.

So, less that, it's just an insulting and amoral thing to say. It sounds to me (as a white man) like a white person who is sick of feeling "white guilt" and feeling that he needs to come up with a justification for how his ancestors weren't that bad. It comes across as a white guy telling black people, "Hey, it wasn't all bad, look at the gift we gave you." I can't imagine any way to read it which doesn't come across as insensitive, condescending and insulting; probably a topic that's best for a politician to avoid.

 

[Agent11]

Even if the slaves weren't being sold to the English and Americans the Middle East and Asia were buying them as well as South America, which imported many more than North America... so I don't know how much of a statistical effect it would have had if North America hadn't imported any.

 

[Ackmed]

How many Africans do you know? I know many. Two close friends of mine came here to go to Harvard Business School. When they finished they immediately went back to West Africa to continue their careers. Africa is a continent, with 54 different countries, all in varying degrees of growth. It's like saying Detroit Michigan or some god forsaken shithole in the bible belt is representative of the US as a whole.

This thread is emblematic of why the rest of the world think we are idiots. People have no clue how ignorant and uninformed they are.

Here is a tip, read before hitting reply. I said America is a better country overall than Africa. Sure there are many different "countries". But as I said, overall the US is far better than Africa. Your "friends" help make that point. Come to the US to get a real education, then go back and try to better their country. Good on them. Doesn't change the facts.

And I know more than you, as I said.. I spent time there. This year even. My last name is a Senegalese name.

Some pics I took while in Senegal this July;

I have far worse pics. This is of Senegal, a huge city and one of the supposedly nicer more modern cities in Africa. It has an international airport of all things!@ Find me a major city that looks as bad as that in America, that is not recovering from a natural disaster.

Unlike you, I have actually spent several weeks in Africa. There is no chance I would rather live there. What do you think the ratio of Africans moving to America is, over the opposite? I think that is a pretty lopsided ratio. The fact is, if not for slavery, no telling how many of our blacks would be in Africa, instead of here in the US. Easy choice to many as to which is better. So while it was terrible, the descendants got the better end of the deal.

 

[Jhhnn]

Even if the slaves weren't being sold to the English and Americans the Middle East and Asia were buying them as well as South America, which imported many more than North America... so I don't know how much of a statistical effect it would have had if North America hadn't imported any.

As if that really matters in terms of the effect on the United States today, as if it somehow justifies the fact that God only knows how many slaves were brought to this country.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, less that, it's just an insulting and amoral thing to say. It sounds to me (as a white man) like a white person who is sick of feeling "white guilt" and feeling that he needs to come up with a justification for how his ancestors weren't that bad. It comes across as a white guy telling black people, "Hey, it wasn't all bad, look at the gift we gave you." I can't imagine any way to read it which doesn't come across as insensitive, condescending and insulting; probably a topic that's best for a politician to avoid.

Thank you.

 

[SheHateMe]

Here is a tip, read before hitting reply. I said America is a better country overall than Africa. Sure there are many different "countries". But as I said, overall the US is far better than Africa. Your "friends" help make that point. Come to the US to get a real education, then go back and try to better their country. Good on them. Doesn't change the facts.

United States = Country

Africa = Continent

 

[emperus]

Here is a tip, read before hitting reply. I said America is a better country overall than Africa. Sure there are many different "countries". But as I said, overall the US is far better than Africa. Your "friends" help make that point. Come to the US to get a real education, then go back and try to better their country. Good on them. Doesn't change the facts.

And I know more than you, as I said.. I spent time there. This year even. My last name is a Senegalese name.

Some pics I took while in Senegal this July;

I have far worse pics. This is of Senegal, a huge city and one of the supposedly nicer more modern cities in Africa. It has an international airport of all things!@ Find me a major city that looks as bad as that in America, that is not recovering from a natural disaster.

Unlike you, I have actually spent several weeks in Africa. There is no chance I would rather live there. What do you think the ratio of Africans moving to America is, over the opposite? I think that is a pretty lopsided ratio. The fact is, if not for slavery, no telling how many of our blacks would be in Africa, instead of here in the US. Easy choice to many as to which is better. So while it was terrible, the descendants got the better end of the deal.

Asshole, I was born in Africa. Like I said, you have no idea of what you speak. This is a stupid discussion born of stupid people. If you can open your moth to articulate such a nonsense stance you deserve every bit of vitriol that comes your way. And if we were face to face it wouldn't even be a discussion.

But, as I repeatedly say. You are a sniveling coward, who lives to rile and ferment racist bullshit while cowering at their own shadow. I pity you and anyone who has to interact with you.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Slavery a true definition I would like . The blacks were freed in america . Only to be enslaved later to welfar and the gooberment , Demons love it . You vote for us and well keep getting you more for the Nothing that you do other than crime. Demons Figured it out Build big gooberment and give yearly cost of living raises better than the taxpayers who you work for . Demons cons. have gooberment labor and the poor on there side in an economy were nothing good is going on . The demons control the house of glass that is cracked. Demons were for slavery befor the war .. After the war they were for putting blacks on welfare . I don't know which form of slavery is worse .

 

[nehalem256]

The problem with this logic is that it assumes that things in Africa would have transpired identically without the slave trade to the West (and potentially a lessened impact of colonialism). That's not a fair assumption to make. We have absolutely no idea what might have transpired had slavery never been brought to the new world; it's all speculation. Sure, if you look at things now, you can objectively say that America is better than Africa, but without considering how the history of slavery has shaped both, that's sort of a meaningless thought exercise.

Well one could reasonably assume that Africa would have more people. But I am having a hard time figuring out how having more people would have made things better?

Unless you are arguing that somehow all the most brilliant African's were rounded up and shipped over to America as slaves?

So, less that, it's just an insulting and amoral thing to say. It sounds to me (as a white man) like a white person who is sick of feeling "white guilt" and feeling that he needs to come up with a justification for how his ancestors weren't that bad. It comes across as a white guy telling black people, "Hey, it wasn't all bad, look at the gift we gave you." I can't imagine any way to read it which doesn't come across as insensitive, condescending and insulting; probably a topic that's best for a politician to avoid.

It can't be any worse than complaining thatm people who were the same race as you enslaved people who were the same race as me in the past. BAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[nehalem256]

Asshole, I was born in Africa. Like I said, you have no idea of what you speak. This is a stupid discussion born of stupid people. If you can open your moth to articulate such a nonsense stance you deserve every bit of vitriol that comes your way. And if we were face to face it wouldn't even be a discussion.

But, as I repeatedly say. You are a sniveling coward, who lives to rile and ferment racist bullshit while cowering at their own shadow. I pity you and anyone who has to interact with you.

North Korea doesn't look all that bad to me. I wonder why people complain about it?

 

[Geosurface]

South Africa was actually a very low population area when Europeans moved in and set up shop, then many native Africans flooded in from more northerly parts of the continent because of it's higher level of civilization and prosperity.

And when power changed hands there, it went to shit like the rest of Africa.

Typically, this is how it has gone... African countries had their best times while they were colonies, and revert to uncivilized shit holes when the colonizing power pulls out.

The reason things like architecture and the wheel, medicine, etc had to be brought back to Africa by the descendants of ancient Africans who had left our species' ancestral home, rather than be developed there, is that the environment of Africa does not have what it takes to select for the kind of traits which lead to civilizations.

Colder climate is the key to civilization. It is a crucial selection pressure.

In his book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" Jared Diamond lays out a compelling case for why the flora and fauna of Europe, as well as the geography, were so crucial to the boom in civilization which took place there.

The dot that political correctness prevented him from connecting is the final piece of the puzzle, those circumstances can only be taken advantage of by people who have undergone the proper, parallel selection for the right traits to harness those things.

These traits are present in all population groups, including Africans, but only the right selection pressures can make them PREVALENT ENOUGH in a population to let that sort of behavior come to dominate other sorts of behavior.

There are absolutely brilliant, fantastic black people in this world, but I believe they are more outnumbered than their counterparts in other groups because of the difference in environment and selection pressures.

 

[Agent11]

There is evidence that the chinese, middle eastern and europeans interbred with neanderthals and other early hominids.

I'm sure that that had a great deal to do with it as well.

There is a lot of really interesting research going on atm regarding early man, worth looking up.

But yeah slavery was a world wide thing, the Sumerians for example enslaved a metric shit ton of people in their day.

It was evil, and it is gone in the western hemisphere. What should get people more outraged is that there is still slavery in India, Pakistan, South East Asia and AFRICA.

 

[Geosurface]

There is evidence that the chinese, middle eastern and europeans interbred with neanderthals and other early hominids.

I'm sure that that had a great deal to do with it as well.

There is a lot of really interesting research going on atm regarding early man, worth looking up.

Right, what I've heard is that all modern day humans except for Africans contain neanderthal DNA as well as denisovan DNA.

It doesn't make someone a "racist" to be aware of these things, mention them, and point out that because of how nature works, there are likely behavioral differences which correspond with biological differences. It just makes them a realist who's aware of facts and takes those facts into consideration.

 

[Lemon law]

As this thread veers off in what amounts to a weird tangent asking and stating that "civilization", what ever that is does not exist in a vacuum.

As we can somewhat State that the birth of modern science and the resulting rise in human technology is a recent four or five hundred year development in human history.

As we can also ask, how old is humanity? And what caused that great leap dividing line between human's and apes. Did that happen five million years ago, or three millions year ago, or even more recently. As human written records extend back only some 6000 thousand years if we don't count cave paintings or flint tools. As I somewhat submit it is the force of European Colonialism that has resulted in the new concept that that the entire earth can thought of, as a whole, and not as a collection of regional nations totally isolated from each other.

As I also ask, has colonialism been a positive or negative force in human history? Its easy to make the case that colonialism, with all its warts and flaws, has been a decidedly negative force of the technology have's, being able to dominate and enslave those who lacked technology.

Which comes to the new questions we all should be asking. Because we, the alive today, are now living in a post colonial world, where the benefits of that technology extend to everyone in the world. Some nations now are better poised to exploit their technological advantages, but when human technology as a whole is becoming a commodity item, how far into a new era of human history will the technology have's be able to extend their current advantages?

Which also raises new terrifying questions. Since our present level of "civilization" is dependent on things like rapidly diminishing supplies of fossil fuel and other rapidly depleting world resources.

As all kinds of poo-bah's say what we worry, as they claim we have another 200-300 years of such resources.

But when we compare that 300 years, to the infinite say next 3 years million year human future, its time to start asking future questions and not dwell in the unchangeable past.

 

[CitizenKain]

And when power changed hands there, it went to shit like the rest of Africa.

Typically, this is how it has gone... African countries had their best times while they were colonies, and revert to uncivilized shit holes when the colonizing power pulls out.

Its funny how oppressed people have a difficult time running a country when their oppressors leave. Something about preventing people from getting an education while at the same time stealing all their resources. Funny that.

 

[Nemesis 1]

It was evil, and it is gone in the western hemisphere. What should get people more outraged is that there is still slavery in India, Pakistan, South East Asia and AFRICA.

Not according to the old testment its not . So whats that tell ya . Somebody lied didn't they. Most of the slavers . the people who got rich off the slave trade to America were Jewish . Imagine that. In old testament jews are allowed to enslave any people other than another jew.. By the word of god . They are also gods only choosen people . DO jews lie . Ya alot more than any other race. Even tho todays Jew are not hebrew but a religion . Their messiah is Rothschild he restored them to Israel. deal was cut in the early 1900 s with the britts. what happened in the war 2 was they had to slaughter jews inorder to restore them but the deal was made some 35 years earlier historical facts. Bible clearly states that in the last days men shall try to make prophecy come true.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Its funny how oppressed people have a difficult time running a country when their oppressors leave. Something about preventing people from getting an education while at the same time stealing all their resources. Funny that.

Care to explain early egypt

 

[nehalem256]

Its funny how oppressed people have a difficult time running a country when their oppressors leave. Something about preventing people from getting an education while at the same time stealing all their resources. Funny that.

Because europeans packed up all the resources into their boats before leaving

 

[CitizenKain]

Because europeans packed up all the resources into their boats before leaving

Was that rolleyes for you post? Because it was pretty ignorant and you should be ashamed about it. Maybe you and Nemesis can have a crazy off somewhere.

 

[emperus]

Was that rolleyes for you post? Because it was pretty ignorant and you should be ashamed about it. Maybe you and Nemesis can have a crazy off somewhere.

You are now alarmed by the contents of this thread? Full crazy happened on the first page.

 

[Jhhnn]

Typically, this is how it has gone... African countries had their best times while they were colonies, and revert to uncivilized shit holes when the colonizing power pulls out.

Outright lies. Colonalism was a way to extract wealth from subjugated territories, not enhance it, at all, and was done in extremely brutal fashion in Africa-

http://www.yale.edu/gsp/colonial/belgian_congo/index.html

When colonialists pulled out, it created a power vacuum, which their former enforcers were generally best able to fill in the same fashion as before.

 

[Howard]

and white people who seem to be having a good time.

There are no American troops in Baghdad!