Six Muslim imams removed from U.S. airliner

[BoberFett]

So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: techs
If passengers complained I was praying and the passengers considered that suspicious and then they ordered me off the plane, because I was Jewish, I wouldn't get off either.

But thank Yahweh your not Jewish or there would be a mass world suicides!! 😀

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: daniel49
if they were scholars seems like they would be able to fashion a reasonable argument in thier minds as to why this happened?

Why dies it seem like any Islamic man who baords a plane and gets profiled is all of sudden a Muslim Scholar??

Now thats something to make you go hmmmmmmmmm


So If I boarded a plane and was asked to leave would I be considered a Jewish Scholar??
hahahaa...Now thats even funnier!!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

That's my beef too. They went through Security like everyone else. I assume there are Air Marshalls on flights now as well. Passengers on planes should not have an opinion on who can fly or not, they should be told to STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO if they don't like it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: tvarad
BTW, as a frequent air traveller, I am now subjected to so many extra checks and inconveniences because of what muslims have done, I think it is only fair that muslims go through something similar to be put through similar inconveniences.

And you blame the entire group for the actions of a few. Why don't you punish all blacks for the things they're doing in Third World African nations? Oh wait, that doesn't inconvenience you. Nevermind.

all your comparisons are not very well thought out? Almost as if you have nothing to say except to increase your post count..lol

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: techs
If passengers complained I was praying

BEST JOKE EVAR!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

That's my beef too. They went through Security like everyone else. I assume there are Air Marshalls on flights now as well. Passengers on planes should not have an opinion on who can fly or not, they should be told to STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO if they don't like it.

Even in a perfect system, there would be leaks.

In essence, what you're saying is that if you saw someone with a package and by chance you peaked in and saw a weapon of some sort that you should, "STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO?" Suspicious behavior will always breed suspicion. People are people and will always have emotions to cope with. Theory is great on paper, reality is an entirely different situation.

I can sit here and wish for a utopia all day long but I know it's not going to happen. We can strive for equality but there will never be true equality. For all those that think they are above profiling, I will call you on that. If you were walking through a known, high crime area and you see some men dressed as gangbangers approaching you, are you going to greet them with open arms or are you going to become precautious and guard yourself?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
They've made their bed...let them lie in it.

What did these particular folks do to make any bed? I've found that ignorance is usually pretty easy to identify, just look for people using the word "they" all the time to describe hundreds of millions of people like they get together and have a big meeting every week.

Ignorance? They are ignorant of the fact that when they get on a plane it makes everyone nervous.

I dont know about you but I still remember 9/11. Like it happened yesterday.

Its only been five years. and muslims have done nothing to improve their image.

How long did it take before people felt right around Germans or the Japanese?

Are the all guilty? No.

But when you act in a way that makes people nervous, what do you expect?

We are humans, not machines. And as the liberals here say, we came from monkeys and are animals.

When instincts kick in then PC garbage be damned.

The passengers had every right to complain, and every right to refuse to fly on that plane.

The airline had already accepted the people on the flight; at that point I can't see any argument whatsoever that they even had the right to make them leave with a full refund, let alone treat them like criminals.

Racial profiling is not useful; in-depth profiling might include race as a weighted factor, but on its own, there's too much 'noise' and not enough correlation between race and any sort of behaviour.

The passengers were acting with prejudice, and the airline was wrong to listen to them. End of story.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie


The passengers had every right to complain, and every right to refuse to fly on that plane.

The airline had already accepted the people on the flight; at that point I can't see any argument whatsoever that they even had the right to make them leave with a full refund, let alone treat them like criminals.

Racial profiling is not useful; in-depth profiling might include race as a weighted factor, but on its own, there's too much 'noise' and not enough correlation between race and any sort of behaviour.

The passengers were acting with prejudice, and the airline was wrong to listen to them. End of story.

They had race, religion and behavior going against them.

Remember the airlines let the 19 on the planes after going through security screenings as well.

Security screens are nothing new.

 

[Aimster]

Verdict is the passengers should have been removed

They were not removed because they were praying.
They were removed because some racist close-minded individual decided to make things up about what they were saying.

Those things that he said the Imams said would raise concern.

That person who made up the crap should be sued by the imams. Not the airline.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

That's my beef too. They went through Security like everyone else. I assume there are Air Marshalls on flights now as well. Passengers on planes should not have an opinion on who can fly or not, they should be told to STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO if they don't like it.

Even in a perfect system, there would be leaks.

In essence, what you're saying is that if you saw someone with a package and by chance you peaked in and saw a weapon of some sort that you should, "STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO?" Suspicious behavior will always breed suspicion. People are people and will always have emotions to cope with. Theory is great on paper, reality is an entirely different situation.

I can sit here and wish for a utopia all day long but I know it's not going to happen. We can strive for equality but there will never be true equality. For all those that think they are above profiling, I will call you on that. If you were walking through a known, high crime area and you see some men dressed as gangbangers approaching you, are you going to greet them with open arms or are you going to become precautious and guard yourself?

A weapon is a whole different scenario. No one saw a weapon, just some people Praying. Though Praying is useless IMO, it does not constitute suspicious behaviour.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie


The passengers had every right to complain, and every right to refuse to fly on that plane.

The airline had already accepted the people on the flight; at that point I can't see any argument whatsoever that they even had the right to make them leave with a full refund, let alone treat them like criminals.

Racial profiling is not useful; in-depth profiling might include race as a weighted factor, but on its own, there's too much 'noise' and not enough correlation between race and any sort of behaviour.

The passengers were acting with prejudice, and the airline was wrong to listen to them. End of story.

They had race, religion and behavior going against them.

Remember the airlines let the 19 on the planes after going through security screenings as well.

Security screens are nothing new.

Behavior? PRAYING means you should be profiled as a "terrarist"?! How lovely.
Get used to the fact that if you see someone praying...they just MIGHT be a Muslim...and they are not praying for you or anyone - but for God. Whether or not others watch isn't their concern because prayer isn't about others...Heck I've played ball with friends and then 1/2 of of us will stop to go pray when it is time. Should all the mothers at the park as well call 9/11 because people are praying?

Then again you have such a twisted view of Islam and Muslims that any actions to harass or inconvenience them you would support and "blame it on them"
I would say their behavior was warranted - they were coming back from a Meeting where one topic was how to PREVENT this radicalization of their youth. These are the guys whom you want tossed into jail?

No wonder Bin Laden is free...because we are accusing the WRONG PEOPLE.

Originally posted by: DaWhim

Originally posted by: Rainsford

No, you know more about certain events cherry-picked to prove a certain political point. You don't know any more about the big picture of Islam than someone who's read the history of the KKK really understand the southern United States. The worst part is that not only are you people ignorant, but that you are INTENTIONLLY keeping yourselves ignorant because it's easier to hate some cartoonish view of Islam than to really try and understand.

so what is the "big picture of Islam" you are trying to tell me? are you implying that I will have to convert myself into a muslim to understand islam?

don't feed me with your political correct bs.

You are trying to understand Islam through a book that is is largely about political events.

It is not political B.S. - the average muslim DOESN'T walk around with black cheese cloth covering their face and a Kalashnikov.
Why not talk about the actual disenfranchisement of the people? Why must YOU make it into a purely religious conflict.
And of all things it comes from Robert Spencer - the guy who runs "jihadwatch.org" and is hell bent that Muslims are intent on killing him and everyone else.

I mean geez read what is quoted on the COVER of the book: " American Muslim groups are engaged in a huge cover-up of Islamic Doctorine and History"....It screams BS because of some massive secret movement that Muslims are coordinating in the USA - all with the help of CAIR to boot!
When a book makes a claim like that right on the front page, and tries to show the average Muslim as a terrorist....Then it is you who has a perceptual problem.


"Understanding Islam" means in no way to CONVERT to Islam. What it means plain and simple is that "If I see Muslims praying...I should not be alarmed because I know they are simply PRAYING". To see a girl in a Hijab should not AUTOMATICALLY CAUSE YOU TO ASSUME "She is so oppressed, she probably wishes she took it off [trust me if a girl doesn't want to wear it she will take it off once her parents aren't aroud - i've seen it a million times]".

What you are understanding is what Robert Spencer wants you to see, and Robert Spencer sees Eye to eye with the fringe Ayn Rand Institute, which basically adovcates we go to WW3 right now in the middle east and slaughter every Muslim [they wonderfully came to my school so i got a chance to hear him]

If you want to read that, go ahead...but then read from OTHER FACTORS...b/c then you will how much B.S. that man spews.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie


The passengers had every right to complain, and every right to refuse to fly on that plane.

The airline had already accepted the people on the flight; at that point I can't see any argument whatsoever that they even had the right to make them leave with a full refund, let alone treat them like criminals.

Racial profiling is not useful; in-depth profiling might include race as a weighted factor, but on its own, there's too much 'noise' and not enough correlation between race and any sort of behaviour.

The passengers were acting with prejudice, and the airline was wrong to listen to them. End of story.

They had race, religion and behavior going against them.

Remember the airlines let the 19 on the planes after going through security screenings as well.

Security screens are nothing new.

Behavior? PRAYING means you should be profiled as a "terrarist"?! How lovely.
Get used to the fact that if you see someone praying...they just MIGHT be a Muslim...and they are not praying for you or anyone - but for God. Whether or not others watch isn't their concern because prayer isn't about others...Heck I've played ball with friends and then 1/2 of of us will stop to go pray when it is time. Should all the mothers at the park as well call 9/11 because people are praying?

Then again you have such a twisted view of Islam and Muslims that any actions to harass or inconvenience them you would support and "blame it on them"
I would say their behavior was warranted - they were coming back from a Meeting where one topic was how to PREVENT this radicalization of their youth. These are the guys whom you want tossed into jail?

No wonder Bin Laden is free...because we are accusing the WRONG PEOPLE.

Originally posted by: DaWhim

Originally posted by: Rainsford

No, you know more about certain events cherry-picked to prove a certain political point. You don't know any more about the big picture of Islam than someone who's read the history of the KKK really understand the southern United States. The worst part is that not only are you people ignorant, but that you are INTENTIONLLY keeping yourselves ignorant because it's easier to hate some cartoonish view of Islam than to really try and understand.

so what is the "big picture of Islam" you are trying to tell me? are you implying that I will have to convert myself into a muslim to understand islam?

don't feed me with your political correct bs.

You are trying to understand Islam through a book that is is largely about political events.

It is not political B.S. - the average muslim DOESN'T walk around with black cheese cloth covering their face and a Kalashnikov.
Why not talk about the actual disenfranchisement of the people? Why must YOU make it into a purely religious conflict.
And of all things it comes from Robert Spencer - the guy who runs "jihadwatch.org" and is hell bent that Muslims are intent on killing him and everyone else.

I mean geez read what is quoted on the COVER of the book: " American Muslim groups are engaged in a huge cover-up of Islamic Doctorine and History"....It screams BS because of some massive secret movement that Muslims are coordinating in the USA - all with the help of CAIR to boot!
When a book makes a claim like that right on the front page, and tries to show the average Muslim as a terrorist....Then it is you who has a perceptual problem.


"Understanding Islam" means in no way to CONVERT to Islam. What it means plain and simple is that "If I see Muslims praying...I should not be alarmed because I know they are simply PRAYING". To see a girl in a Hijab should not AUTOMATICALLY CAUSE YOU TO ASSUME "She is so oppressed, she probably wishes she took it off [trust me if a girl doesn't want to wear it she will take it off once her parents aren't aroud - i've seen it a million times]".

What you are understanding is what Robert Spencer wants you to see, and Robert Spencer sees Eye to eye with the fringe Ayn Rand Institute, which basically adovcates we go to WW3 right now in the middle east and slaughter every Muslim [they wonderfully came to my school so i got a chance to hear him]

If you want to read that, go ahead...but then read from OTHER FACTORS...b/c then you will how much B.S. that man spews.

The overall goal of "The religion of peace" is to destroy those who do not convert. It is spreading throughout the world faster than communism, faster than facism. They bring hate, death and destruction everywhere.

Are they like Ghandi and spread with the word? No...they choose the sword.
Indonesia, Bali, Sudan, The Phillipines, Spain, France, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, Somalia, England, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Russia, The United States, Iran, Germany, Italy, Syria, Lebanon, Greece, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India

But oh...I forgot...its just a limited few who are violent.

The Religion of Peace can't even be peaceful with itself. Look at Iraq...Sunni, Shiite, Kurd...all muslim....yet they blow each other up all the time.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie


The passengers had every right to complain, and every right to refuse to fly on that plane.

The airline had already accepted the people on the flight; at that point I can't see any argument whatsoever that they even had the right to make them leave with a full refund, let alone treat them like criminals.

Racial profiling is not useful; in-depth profiling might include race as a weighted factor, but on its own, there's too much 'noise' and not enough correlation between race and any sort of behaviour.

The passengers were acting with prejudice, and the airline was wrong to listen to them. End of story.

They had race, religion and behavior going against them.

Remember the airlines let the 19 on the planes after going through security screenings as well.

Security screens are nothing new.

Behavior? PRAYING means you should be profiled as a "terrarist"?! How lovely.
Get used to the fact that if you see someone praying...they just MIGHT be a Muslim...and they are not praying for you or anyone - but for God. Whether or not others watch isn't their concern because prayer isn't about others...Heck I've played ball with friends and then 1/2 of of us will stop to go pray when it is time. Should all the mothers at the park as well call 9/11 because people are praying?

Then again you have such a twisted view of Islam and Muslims that any actions to harass or inconvenience them you would support and "blame it on them"
I would say their behavior was warranted - they were coming back from a Meeting where one topic was how to PREVENT this radicalization of their youth. These are the guys whom you want tossed into jail?

No wonder Bin Laden is free...because we are accusing the WRONG PEOPLE.

Originally posted by: DaWhim

Originally posted by: Rainsford

No, you know more about certain events cherry-picked to prove a certain political point. You don't know any more about the big picture of Islam than someone who's read the history of the KKK really understand the southern United States. The worst part is that not only are you people ignorant, but that you are INTENTIONLLY keeping yourselves ignorant because it's easier to hate some cartoonish view of Islam than to really try and understand.

so what is the "big picture of Islam" you are trying to tell me? are you implying that I will have to convert myself into a muslim to understand islam?

don't feed me with your political correct bs.

You are trying to understand Islam through a book that is is largely about political events.

It is not political B.S. - the average muslim DOESN'T walk around with black cheese cloth covering their face and a Kalashnikov.
Why not talk about the actual disenfranchisement of the people? Why must YOU make it into a purely religious conflict.
And of all things it comes from Robert Spencer - the guy who runs "jihadwatch.org" and is hell bent that Muslims are intent on killing him and everyone else.

I mean geez read what is quoted on the COVER of the book: " American Muslim groups are engaged in a huge cover-up of Islamic Doctorine and History"....It screams BS because of some massive secret movement that Muslims are coordinating in the USA - all with the help of CAIR to boot!
When a book makes a claim like that right on the front page, and tries to show the average Muslim as a terrorist....Then it is you who has a perceptual problem.


"Understanding Islam" means in no way to CONVERT to Islam. What it means plain and simple is that "If I see Muslims praying...I should not be alarmed because I know they are simply PRAYING". To see a girl in a Hijab should not AUTOMATICALLY CAUSE YOU TO ASSUME "She is so oppressed, she probably wishes she took it off [trust me if a girl doesn't want to wear it she will take it off once her parents aren't aroud - i've seen it a million times]".

What you are understanding is what Robert Spencer wants you to see, and Robert Spencer sees Eye to eye with the fringe Ayn Rand Institute, which basically adovcates we go to WW3 right now in the middle east and slaughter every Muslim [they wonderfully came to my school so i got a chance to hear him]

If you want to read that, go ahead...but then read from OTHER FACTORS...b/c then you will how much B.S. that man spews.

The overall goal of "The religion of peace" is to destroy those who do not convert. It is spreading throughout the world faster than communism, faster than facism. They bring hate, death and destruction everywhere.

Are they like Ghandi and spread with the word? No...they choose the sword.
Indonesia, Bali, Sudan, The Phillipines, Spain, France, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, Somalia, England, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Russia, The United States, Iran, Germany, Italy, Syria, Lebanon, Greece, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India

But oh...I forgot...its just a limited few who are violent.

The Religion of Peace can't even be peaceful with itself. Look at Iraq...Sunni, Shiite, Kurd...all muslim....yet they blow each other up all the time.

BS

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

That's my beef too. They went through Security like everyone else. I assume there are Air Marshalls on flights now as well. Passengers on planes should not have an opinion on who can fly or not, they should be told to STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO if they don't like it.

Even in a perfect system, there would be leaks.

In essence, what you're saying is that if you saw someone with a package and by chance you peaked in and saw a weapon of some sort that you should, "STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO?" Suspicious behavior will always breed suspicion. People are people and will always have emotions to cope with. Theory is great on paper, reality is an entirely different situation.

I can sit here and wish for a utopia all day long but I know it's not going to happen. We can strive for equality but there will never be true equality. For all those that think they are above profiling, I will call you on that. If you were walking through a known, high crime area and you see some men dressed as gangbangers approaching you, are you going to greet them with open arms or are you going to become precautious and guard yourself?

A weapon is a whole different scenario. No one saw a weapon, just some people Praying. Though Praying is useless IMO, it does not constitute suspicious behaviour.

I was just commenting on your blanket statement that passengers should never have a say regarding who boards an airplane. On the contrary, the airport asks the passengers to keep an eye out for suspicious activities all the time (eg. packages left alone).

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

That's my beef too. They went through Security like everyone else. I assume there are Air Marshalls on flights now as well. Passengers on planes should not have an opinion on who can fly or not, they should be told to STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO if they don't like it.

Even in a perfect system, there would be leaks.

In essence, what you're saying is that if you saw someone with a package and by chance you peaked in and saw a weapon of some sort that you should, "STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO?" Suspicious behavior will always breed suspicion. People are people and will always have emotions to cope with. Theory is great on paper, reality is an entirely different situation.

I can sit here and wish for a utopia all day long but I know it's not going to happen. We can strive for equality but there will never be true equality. For all those that think they are above profiling, I will call you on that. If you were walking through a known, high crime area and you see some men dressed as gangbangers approaching you, are you going to greet them with open arms or are you going to become precautious and guard yourself?

A weapon is a whole different scenario. No one saw a weapon, just some people Praying. Though Praying is useless IMO, it does not constitute suspicious behaviour.

I was just commenting on your blanket statement that passengers should never have a say regarding who boards an airplane. On the contrary, the airport asks the passengers to keep an eye out for suspicious activities all the time (eg. packages left alone).

That's a good point, but I still think there'd better be a reason beyond what was offered in this.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo


The overall goal of "The religion of peace" is to destroy those who do not convert. It is spreading throughout the world faster than communism, faster than facism. They bring hate, death and destruction everywhere.

Are they like Ghandi and spread with the word? No...they choose the sword.
Indonesia, Bali, Sudan, The Phillipines, Spain, France, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, Somalia, England, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Russia, The United States, Iran, Germany, Italy, Syria, Lebanon, Greece, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India

But oh...I forgot...its just a limited few who are violent.

The Religion of Peace can't even be peaceful with itself. Look at Iraq...Sunni, Shiite, Kurd...all muslim....yet they blow each other up all the time.

GoPackGo, no it isn't. I stand by the Quran, and nowhere can I find an ultimatum that says I must run around and kill those who do not world. Why are you trying to connect ISLAM to Communism or facism? It seems like a scare tactic just to frigthen people to "follow the line"- and if you are fearful of its spread....perhaps you are simply scared of people choosing an alternative belief system? There is nothing wrong with that.
I would not see why are you so "scared" of it to even use such words...are you afraid that it challenges what you believe? I personally have no idea, and it could be a million things but apparently you are scared by its spread. Well be prepared to be more scared because over time us Americans Muslims will integrate more and more and HOPEFULLY keep our own religion and thus help mold that American Muslim identity that is being forged.

Islam was LARGELY and GENERALLY spread through a) syncretism and b) conquest. I've stated this and challenged you on this MULTIPLE times, MANY times...as well as discussed this with many others on the forums and I would have HOPEd you read one of them. In a nutshell: Islam was NOT spread violently but in one place: The arabian peninsula. After that to say it was spread by the sword is simply revisionism. YES, there are exceptions, YES there were horrible things done....but when one ruler died often the next undid the idiocy of the first (and when one prosecuted non muslims reckeless ironically they also prosecuted muslims who didn't hold their own brand of ISlam!)

You decide to mention Ghandi, and without getting into the differences between Ghandi and the Palestinians (Which you seem to point at - else I don't see why you would bring him up as he sought to END foreign control of his lands) so let us see what Ghandi DID have to say about islam:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

"The sayings of Muhammad are a treasure of wisdom, not only for Muslims but for all of mankind."

And books written on this subject (Since some believe he was interested in political pandering)
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no31578.htm">https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no31578.htm</a>

"In thematically focussing on his responsiveness to Islam, Dr. Sheila McDonough addresses a vital question: "Why did Gandhi say the things, he did, about Islam?" Which leads her to meticulously trace, among other determinants, the intellectual influences that had helped shape Gandhi?s vision of Islam?the vision he particularly shared with many of his Indian contemporaries. The author, a widely known authority on Islamic studies, puts together many of Gandhi?s observations about Prophet Mohammed, the holy Qur?an and the Islamic faith to emphasize that his positive, respectful response to Islam was not matter of political pragmatism, nor a façade to unify Indians at a critical period of their history, but it went far beyond?to a philosophical understanding of the very essence of Islam.

I can do the EXACT same thing as you and twist EVERYTHING about history:

====================================
Look at "Christian Nations". How many damned wars did Europe fight amongst itself? You can MAJOR in European history where you learn about one bloody war after the other all in repeated succession. English attacking French. Spanish attacking English, Germans ganging up and getting Poland, Russians clobbering those around...it goes ON AND ON. Look at South America and all the wars they have fought amongst one another - and they are the same KIND of Christian!
Look at the USA and all our actions - the killing and slaughtering of hundreds of thousands of "innocent" Christians in the Philippines..

And you truly believe that Christianity was not spread by the sword? Tell that to The entire American continent and Parts of Asia! Hell even look at Europe and hundreds of years of resistance that it resisted Christianity before political elements enforced it!

Geez this Christian on Christian violence is ridiculous...they are all the same bloody believers and they keep killing each other!
===============================================

You hold a convoluted view on things...and thankfully I don't share it, which includes the simple example I displayed

 

[magomago]

btw- I think its sad that on every thread that deals with muslims always had to descend towards bashing the religion.

This was actually an interesting thread and debate about how people interpret (Wrongly) actions by Muslims.....until all the irrational flaming occurred.

 

[Balt]

It's the reality of the world we live in. They were embarrassed and delayed and had to take a later flight.

Boo frickin' hoo. It's not like they were arrested.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

That's my beef too. They went through Security like everyone else. I assume there are Air Marshalls on flights now as well. Passengers on planes should not have an opinion on who can fly or not, they should be told to STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO if they don't like it.

Even in a perfect system, there would be leaks.

In essence, what you're saying is that if you saw someone with a package and by chance you peaked in and saw a weapon of some sort that you should, "STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO?" Suspicious behavior will always breed suspicion. People are people and will always have emotions to cope with. Theory is great on paper, reality is an entirely different situation.

I can sit here and wish for a utopia all day long but I know it's not going to happen. We can strive for equality but there will never be true equality. For all those that think they are above profiling, I will call you on that. If you were walking through a known, high crime area and you see some men dressed as gangbangers approaching you, are you going to greet them with open arms or are you going to become precautious and guard yourself?

A weapon is a whole different scenario. No one saw a weapon, just some people Praying. Though Praying is useless IMO, it does not constitute suspicious behaviour.

I was just commenting on your blanket statement that passengers should never have a say regarding who boards an airplane. On the contrary, the airport asks the passengers to keep an eye out for suspicious activities all the time (eg. packages left alone).

That's a good point, but I still think there'd better be a reason beyond what was offered in this.

Yea, reporting of this incident was too paranoid but it's hard for me to blame people for becoming weary in the current political climate. When you're playing with your life on the line, the moral highground will often times be out of reach.

I will say that profiling in itself is not bad. It allows people to categorize masses of data into smaller amounts of general data. It can be harmful but it can also keep you out of harm. It's a gray issue and as with all gray issues there are no rights and wrongs but only compromises. They hypocrisy of most of the posts on P&N regarding profiling is the fact that people love to profile each other as either Liberal or Republican. Every thread has that same exact post. Left leaning post, you must be an extreme liberal hippy. Right leaning post, you must be a neo-con. That's a situation that does harm but there are plenty of examples of where it can keep you safe.

In this case, it was a mix of racial profiling with religious profiling both of which stems from lack of understanding. But how does one come to expect every person to be well rehearsed in the customs, history, behaviors, etc of all the other diverse cultures and people in the world? Unless you're a cultural scholar of some sort, you're information will generall come from heresay, the biased news, and other sources that really offer very little means for verification. You can do your own research but when I'm waiting at an airport I doubt I'll have access to my pocket encylopedia.

In my personal experience, I've been pulled to the side quite a few times at the airport. I don't know if they were profiling me because of my age, my looks, my ethnicity, etc but it really never bothered me much. I would like to believe that the people working the security gates have enough experience to pull out the suspicous people but I really have no idea regarding their efficiency. So, in the end, we live in a terrifying environment these days and it's hard for me to criticize people for being nervous.

As a side note, I've been trying to understand Islam more but I am unsure of what are reputable sources for information about it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

That's my beef too. They went through Security like everyone else. I assume there are Air Marshalls on flights now as well. Passengers on planes should not have an opinion on who can fly or not, they should be told to STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO if they don't like it.

Even in a perfect system, there would be leaks.

In essence, what you're saying is that if you saw someone with a package and by chance you peaked in and saw a weapon of some sort that you should, "STFU, SitTFD, or GTFO?" Suspicious behavior will always breed suspicion. People are people and will always have emotions to cope with. Theory is great on paper, reality is an entirely different situation.

I can sit here and wish for a utopia all day long but I know it's not going to happen. We can strive for equality but there will never be true equality. For all those that think they are above profiling, I will call you on that. If you were walking through a known, high crime area and you see some men dressed as gangbangers approaching you, are you going to greet them with open arms or are you going to become precautious and guard yourself?

A weapon is a whole different scenario. No one saw a weapon, just some people Praying. Though Praying is useless IMO, it does not constitute suspicious behaviour.

I was just commenting on your blanket statement that passengers should never have a say regarding who boards an airplane. On the contrary, the airport asks the passengers to keep an eye out for suspicious activities all the time (eg. packages left alone).

That's a good point, but I still think there'd better be a reason beyond what was offered in this.

Yea, reporting of this incident was too paranoid but it's hard for me to blame people for becoming weary in the current political climate. When you're playing with your life on the line, the moral highground will often times be out of reach.

I will say that profiling in itself is not bad. It allows people to categorize masses of data into smaller amounts of general data. It can be harmful but it can also keep you out of harm. It's a gray issue and as with all gray issues there are no rights and wrongs but only compromises. They hypocrisy of most of the posts on P&N regarding profiling is the fact that people love to profile each other as either Liberal or Republican. Every thread has that same exact post. Left leaning post, you must be an extreme liberal hippy. Right leaning post, you must be a neo-con. That's a situation that does harm but there are plenty of examples of where it can keep you safe.

In this case, it was a mix of racial profiling with religious profiling both of which stems from lack of understanding. But how does one come to expect every person to be well rehearsed in the customs, history, behaviors, etc of all the other diverse cultures and people in the world? Unless you're a cultural scholar of some sort, you're information will generall come from heresay, the biased news, and other sources that really offer very little means for verification. You can do your own research but when I'm waiting at an airport I doubt I'll have access to my pocket encylopedia.

In my personal experience, I've been pulled to the side quite a few times at the airport. I don't know if they were profiling me because of my age, my looks, my ethnicity, etc but it really never bothered me much. I would like to believe that the people working the security gates have enough experience to pull out the suspicous people but I really have no idea regarding their efficiency. So, in the end, we live in a terrifying environment these days and it's hard for me to criticize people for being nervous.

As a side note, I've been trying to understand Islam more but I am unsure of what are reputable sources for information about it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Best way to understand it would be to read the Koran. A number of websites have it online. Keep in mind though that Religions don't always line up with their respective Holy Books, but they certainly try to. I have only read a little of it myself, but I read enough to know that my "BS" response to another posters claim was more than appropriate. 😀

 

[glutenberg]

My greatest qualm with reading it online is that I've heard people say that the language does not translate well over to English and requires analysis from someone who can read and understand the original language and then translate from that.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The overall goal of "The religion of peace" is to destroy those who do not convert. It is spreading throughout the world faster than communism, faster than facism. They bring hate, death and destruction everywhere.

Please stop posting this ignorant bullshit and go educate yourself

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The overall goal of "The religion of peace" is to destroy those who do not convert. It is spreading throughout the world faster than communism, faster than facism. They bring hate, death and destruction everywhere.

Please stop posting this ignorant bullshit and go educate yourself

I suggest you and others here are the ones who need to study up on Islam. You can start by picking up this book.

Text

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So is airport security sufficient or no? If it is, then these men posed no threat and should be left alone. Seems to me they can't have it both ways. Either they're racists with good security, or the security is worthless so they couldn't take any chances. Either way, screw the airline industry.

If there's one thing established firmly since 9/11/01... it's that Airport security wasn't, isn't and will likely never be sufficient.