Sistering or other solution for deck joists?

[Torn Mind]

Some of the deck joists have holes from the old one cupping, so they are unlikely to take a screw.

I don’t like sistering alone since it accelerates tot.

 

[Greenman]

Install a new rim joist, pressure block it to straighten up the existing joist and get a connection, put a layer of Vicore over the top of the new rim joist and blocks. Easy day.

 

[Torn Mind]

Some of the ends seem flaky, which is stalling me from getting the rim joist install done.

 

[Greenman]

In a couple of those pics I can see decay further back from the front of the joist. Given that it's a second floor deck, you need to evaluate the entire structure. It may have reached the end of it's service life. Decks do collapse, and people are seriously injured or killed when it happens.
This isn't a simple repair as it first appeared, there is structural damage that needs to be addressed.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Yeah don’t f around with elevated deck, them falling even a small distance can be dangerous.

 

[Torn Mind]

I found a couple severely deteriorated at the wall. The others seem okay at the wall.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I don’t want to act like a professional because I am not, if you are going to replace two or three why not do the whole damn thing?
Also look a trex boards a few months ago they were basically the same cost as decent wood deck boards.

 

[Greenman]

Rot at the front, rot at the wall penetration, surface rot on the tops. You need to have that inspected by a pro. My guess is that you need a whole new deck, but pictures can be deceiving.

 

[pcgeek11]

That thing looks like death to me. Get it fixed right. That is something that shouldn't be halfassed.

 

[lxskllr]

I'll throw in a "replace" opinion. Yea, it could be fixed, but it looks to me like you'd have 50% new material, and 50% old stuff that's in it's last 20% of useful life. For a repair option, you're looking at a decent amount of work for a halfassed final result. I'd maybe scab some boards on to buy time for a year or so to let lumber prices drop more, but I wouldn't want to put any time in for a thorough repair.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I'll throw in a "replace" opinion. Yea, it could be fixed, but it looks to me like you'd have 50% new material, and 50% old stuff that's in it's last 20% of useful life. For a repair option, you're looking at a decent amount of work for a halfassed final result. I'd maybe scab some boards on to buy time for a year or so to let lumber prices drop more, but I wouldn't want to put any time in for a thorough repair.

Sadly, lumber these days just isn't the same quality as it used to be. The environmentalists have stopped using many of the chemicals that made wood last. My floating dock only lasted 8 years before having quite a few screw holes start to have rot. I replaced all but 2 of 14 2X8's when I rebuilt it. The two that I reused were on the outer edge, so it would be work to replace them, but it would be doable. I also filled and sealed them where I could to protect them further.

My suggestion on any new builds is to hit the lumber with a good water sealant. Don't trust the wood not to decompose much faster than it used to.

For the rest of my dock surfaces, we went over them with a pigment colored deck paint to seal them up. Many of those boards, however, were older stock to start with and we just flipped them over when they were installed. The older boards have weathered much better than the new stuff I put in 8 years ago and they were probably 10 years old to start with.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Sadly, lumber these days just isn't the same quality as it used to be. The environmentalists have stopped using many of the chemicals that made wood last. My floating dock only lasted 8 years before having quite a few screw holes start to have rot. I replaced all but 2 of 14 2X8's when I rebuilt it. The two that I reused were on the outer edge, so it would be work to replace them, but it would be doable. I also filled and sealed them where I could to protect them further.

My suggestion on any new builds is to hit the lumber with a good water sealant. Don't trust the wood not to decompose much faster than it used to.

For the rest of my dock surfaces, we went over them with a pigment colored deck paint to seal them up. Many of those boards, however, were older stock to start with and we just flipped them over when they were installed. The older boards have weathered much better than the new stuff I put in 8 years ago and they were probably 10 years old to start with.

The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.

 

[Scarpozzi]

The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.

Definitely. I just hate that's where we are. I'm pissed that you can't buy quality treated lumber anymore. (and that you won't know it one way or another until 5+ years down the road)

My recommendation is do everything in your power to minimize the number of holes you punch in the boards with screws or nails...and seal around them however you can. I buy those 4" wide rolls of window flashing for $9-10 and cut them in long 2" wide strips to go over the top of the joists. That goes a long way by creating a foil and tar barrier that helps keep water off the top of the board where it might sit.

 

[Greenman]

The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.

I think jasco termin-8 is even better, it has more death in it. I thought it had been taken off the market, but it appears it's still available.

 

[Gardener]

Sadly, lumber these days just isn't the same quality as it used to be. The environmentalists have stopped using many of the chemicals that made wood last...

On the west coast USA there was a move 30 years ago to using substandard wood like hemlock as a treated wood for outdoor use. Doesn't matter what you treat it with, it is just sauce on shite.

That deck needs replace. Greenman's idea about flashing is very sensible, repeated wetting and drying is what ruins deck wood, in most cases it isn't biological/microbial.

 

[Greenman]

You can get any grade or type of lumber pressure treated, none of it is very good because the stuff they soak it with was reformulated years back. Not nearly as good as it used to be, and a lot less toxic.

 

[BoomerD]

The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.

That "green stuff" was chromated copper arsenate. Not very healthy stuff to fuck with.

Chromated copper arsenate–treated wood: a potential source of arsenic exposure and toxicity in dermatology

Chromated copper arsenate (CCA), which contains 47.5% hexavalent chromium, 18.5% copper, and 34% inorganic arsenic, is a pesticide and preservative that was used to pressure treat lumber beginning in the 1940s. In the 1970s, CCA was widely used in the United States for outdoor residential wood such as decks, picnic tables, landscaping timbers, fencing, patios, walkways, boardwalks, and playground structures until it was phased out by the EPA in 2003.

I spent about a year working for a drilling contractor who specialized in doing soldier beam and timber lagging for large excavations.

Soldier Pile Walls

Use anchored soldier pile walls when a site requires stiff excavation shoring, a permanent site retaining wall, or for slope stabilization.

www.subsurfaceconstruction.com

They used the cca lumber. Just a large splinter could fuck you up. Arsenic just ain't so good for humans...or the planet.

 

[paperfist]

That deck with the cantilever part alone makes me queasy.

Definitely. I just hate that's where we are. I'm pissed that you can't buy quality treated lumber anymore. (and that you won't know it one way or another until 5+ years down the road)

My recommendation is do everything in your power to minimize the number of holes you punch in the boards with screws or nails...and seal around them however you can. I buy those 4" wide rolls of window flashing for $9-10 and cut them in long 2" wide strips to go over the top of the joists. That goes a long way by creating a foil and tar barrier that helps keep water off the top of the board where it might sit.

I bought the 'best' 6x6 PT lumber posts for my gazebo and set them in the fall. Next spring I went to frame a roof on them and 2 were so atrociously twisted I have to replace them. I was so furious!

On the west coast USA there was a move 30 years ago to using substandard wood like hemlock as a treated wood for outdoor use. Doesn't matter what you treat it with, it is just sauce on shite.

That deck needs replace. Greenman's idea about flashing is very sensible, repeated wetting and drying is what ruins deck wood, in most cases it isn't biological/microbial.

I thought hemlock was pretty good?

 

[Scarpozzi]

That deck with the cantilever part alone makes me queasy.



I bought the 'best' 6x6 PT lumber posts for my gazebo and set them in the fall. Next spring I went to frame a roof on them and 2 were so atrociously twisted I have to replace them. I was so furious!

I bought some 22' 6x6s and had one of them actually bow. I'm just calling it character. They all have exterior splits/cracks in them that I need to fill with something. It's happening on my party pavilion posts too.

 

[paperfist]

I bought some 22' 6x6s and had one of them actually bow. I'm just calling it character. They all have exterior splits/cracks in them that I need to fill with something. It's happening on my party pavilion posts too.

Whoa 22' 6x6? Those be heavy

Mine have the same kind of splits and cracks, I never thought about filling them like that. I was going to case them out with something else. I guess though then I'd have to deal with expansion and contraction issues. Haha I was originally planning to cover them in stone veneer but surly that will crack with PT being so unstable.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Whoa 22' 6x6? Those be heavy

Mine have the same kind of splits and cracks, I never thought about filling them like that. I was going to case them out with something else. I guess though then I'd have to deal with expansion and contraction issues. Haha I was originally planning to cover them in stone veneer but surly that will crack with PT being so unstable.

I was building a boat house so they needed to be buried about 3' deep and surrounded by concrete in the lake bed.

Heavy yes....what's worse? When you're only 6'4" tall, how do you stand them up vertically in a 3' deep hole? I ended up getting a buddy of mine to help and we used the rear gate of a 16' trailer as a pivot point and dropped them right in place. Luckily there were only six of them and we were able to tie them in down low and up high to make the structure. (kind of like you would with a pole barn)

 

[skyking]

back to the OP, sistering is out

 

[Scarpozzi]

back to the OP, sistering is out

If I were going to do any sistering, I would drill and use galvanized machine bolts with large washers or steel plates on both sides to spread the load. That might help *correct the cupping. You can also tighten the bolts slowly over a longer period of time to keep the older wood from cracking...especially if its moisture content is low.

 

[skyking]

the key to sisters is putting them on good wood ( looks at those brick penetrations, shakes head).

 

[Greenman]

the key to sisters is putting them on good wood ( looks at those brick penetrations, shakes head).

At this point, sistering is just adding load to an already failing system.