I really noticed that no one is talking about the Nforce anymore. It's pretty funny considering the hype it had. Was it mainly because it did not smash KT266A in all the benchmarks?
<< I really noticed that no one is talking about the Nforce anymore. It's pretty funny considering the hype it had. Was it mainly because it did not smash KT266A in all the benchmarks? >>
Well, both my LAN box(k7s5a) and my main box(ak31a) can whip the nforce, so yeah, no point in it anymore
<< hahaha the point is via shall burn....SiS shall rule!!! >>
Yawn...
Not this zealotry again, unless you want me to explain yet again that VIA is not an evil empire.
I would love to see a SIS735/45 board from a major board manufacture, Abit, Asus, Soyo for example. I ran the ECS board for a bit over 3 weeks, at that point it began random lockups, then refused to post. I returned it and got a Shuttle. It has been running beatifuly ever since. I did not want a Via chipset, I tried briefly a ASUS K7M 266, but could not justify the cost epecially since it still did not free me of the VIA driver game. Yes the shuttle is VIA, but it is working for me.
When a SIS chipset comes out from a major player I will be very interested.
When a SIS chipset comes out from a major player I will be very interested.
<< Yes the shuttle is VIA, but it is working for me. >>
This statement totally baffles me. A high percentage of VIA users have no problem, it's a vocal minority that are it's detractors. So why the "but" in there? Of course chipsets are supposed to work, and more often then not VIA works flawlessly.
In spite of the fact you are having a pleasant experience with VIA, you still think they make crappy products and want to get rid of it as soon as you can?
I don't see how any of your points relate to the chipset's stability. ("Truly rock solid") Most of those are design issues with what can be inserted in the AGP slot -- that's a physical limitation, kind of like saying they forgot to include a 4th PCI slot and only have 3 or something like that. That doesn't relate to system stability when the system is actually up and running...
Or am I intrepreting you incorrectly?
===
<< Actually Oldfart, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Not all chipsets are perfect, and this includes i845/i850 boards. You should note that, quote:
Because of the lower voltage signalling, the AGP4X slot on i845 and i850 motherboards is notched so that 3.3Volt only cards cannot be inserted. A problem arises where older AGP cards exist that have the correct notch, but do not comply with 1.5Volt signalling, asking for 3.3Volts from the motherboard instead. In such cases, the video card and the motherboard can be permanently damaged.
Also note:
A number of cards have been identified that have the 1.5 Volt notch, but are actually 3.3Volt cards.
These are:
- some nVidia Riva TNT2 cards
- all nVidia Vanta, Vanta LT cards
- all SiS 6326, SiS 305 cards
- all S3 Savage4 cards up to, but not including revision 3.0
- all 3dfx AGP Voodoo 3, 4, and 5 boards (officially non-AGP 4x anyway)
- some nVidia GeForce2 GTS/Pro.
I'd have to do a search for the i815, but I'd bet it's not, as you say, "truly rock solid", as all chipsets are not. >>
Or am I intrepreting you incorrectly?
===
<< Actually Oldfart, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Not all chipsets are perfect, and this includes i845/i850 boards. You should note that, quote:
Because of the lower voltage signalling, the AGP4X slot on i845 and i850 motherboards is notched so that 3.3Volt only cards cannot be inserted. A problem arises where older AGP cards exist that have the correct notch, but do not comply with 1.5Volt signalling, asking for 3.3Volts from the motherboard instead. In such cases, the video card and the motherboard can be permanently damaged.
Also note:
A number of cards have been identified that have the 1.5 Volt notch, but are actually 3.3Volt cards.
These are:
- some nVidia Riva TNT2 cards
- all nVidia Vanta, Vanta LT cards
- all SiS 6326, SiS 305 cards
- all S3 Savage4 cards up to, but not including revision 3.0
- all 3dfx AGP Voodoo 3, 4, and 5 boards (officially non-AGP 4x anyway)
- some nVidia GeForce2 GTS/Pro.
I'd have to do a search for the i815, but I'd bet it's not, as you say, "truly rock solid", as all chipsets are not. >>
<< I would love to see a SIS735/45 board from a major board manufacture, Abit, Asus, Soyo for example. I ran the ECS board for a bit over 3 weeks, at that point it began random lockups, then refused to post. I returned it and got a Shuttle. It has been running beatifuly ever since. I did not want a Via chipset, I tried briefly a ASUS K7M 266, but could not justify the cost epecially since it still did not free me of the VIA driver game. Yes the shuttle is VIA, but it is working for me.
When a SIS chipset comes out from a major player I will be very interested. >>
Do you consider Shuttle a major board manufacturer (seeing that you purchased one?) If so, you might be interested to know that they _DO_ have a SIS735 solution -- the ]l=AS25]http://www.shuttleonline.com/spec.php3?model=as25[/l].
Not this zealotry again, unless you want me to explain yet again that VIA is not an evil empire.
hahahaha dude you crack me up man......yeah i hate via and no i don't want them to burn i hope one day they can make some kewl chipsets but......for now they "SUCK" haha.
hahahaha dude you crack me up man......yeah i hate via and no i don't want them to burn i hope one day they can make some kewl chipsets but......for now they "SUCK" haha.
AGodspeed, the problem is those old video cards do not follow proper AGP design specifications. The ones that do are not an issue. It not the fault of the motherboard maker.
Yea, I agree with oldfart. That whole thing has nothing to do with a chipset problem, but a limitation in the chipset.
EDIT: Lore, I have heard about Shuttle AS25 and truthfully, I would consider buying it but I have yet to see it in stores or any reviews.
EDIT: Lore, I have heard about Shuttle AS25 and truthfully, I would consider buying it but I have yet to see it in stores or any reviews.
I recently put together a nforce system (msi k7n420-pro) and it workes great!
Im using the onboard sound, lan and vga. No problems whatsoever. But there are some sound issues with win98. I have tried both winme and winxp, and both os's runs great.
I do not have any usb problems (As I have had several times with via chipsets), or other kind of problems. This ting just works. It was so great to install a 2 mb file, that contains both sound, lan and chipset drivers!
I also got a lg 16X burner and a pioneer 106s connected on the same ide channel. both works fine as well.
Im using the onboard sound, lan and vga. No problems whatsoever. But there are some sound issues with win98. I have tried both winme and winxp, and both os's runs great.
I do not have any usb problems (As I have had several times with via chipsets), or other kind of problems. This ting just works. It was so great to install a 2 mb file, that contains both sound, lan and chipset drivers!
I also got a lg 16X burner and a pioneer 106s connected on the same ide channel. both works fine as well.
Mem
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2000
- 21,476
- 13
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<< Let my clarify this. I am not a VIA-zealot, but I also don't like the misinformation spread around about the stability and issues with VIA and competing chipsets. >>
Yep no problem here with my Epox 8KHA+(VIA KT266A) board all USB etc works fine,no problems with stability infact even my other MSI K7T PRO(VIA KT133) is working great after 14 months so I`m 2 for 2 ,so I`m a happy PC owner & gamer
.Btw before these two boards I was a Intel & SiS owner so these are my first products with VIA.Anyway chipsets come and go there will always be something to flame or a new kid in town in the end it`s what you are happy with and I`ve no complaints
.For your info,
Do you know (for all the Shutte AK31 owner) who make (what factory?) actually make those shutte board? (they recently has such a good sale in europe) anyone. Oh, you will be surprise.
Its ECS's OEM factory in China. So aside from design, the product quality IMHO will be the same as a ECSK7S5A.
By working closely with ECS, Shuttle has a lower OEM price and thus lower selling price. It has a good name in Europe and they are doing good on output to Europe. So its share price is raising.
Do you know (for all the Shutte AK31 owner) who make (what factory?) actually make those shutte board? (they recently has such a good sale in europe) anyone. Oh, you will be surprise.
Its ECS's OEM factory in China. So aside from design, the product quality IMHO will be the same as a ECSK7S5A.
By working closely with ECS, Shuttle has a lower OEM price and thus lower selling price. It has a good name in Europe and they are doing good on output to Europe. So its share price is raising.
<< For your info,
Do you know (for all the Shutte AK31 owner) who make (what factory?) actually make those shutte board? (they recently has such a good sale in europe) anyone. Oh, you will be surprise.
Its ECS's OEM factory in China. So aside from design, the product quality IMHO will be the same as a ECSK7S5A. >>
Product quality and chipset stability are two totally different issues.
I did not compare chipset, i just give information where Shuttle board was made. Shuttle has both sis and via chipsets' board.
I have no knowledge on which chipset is better for i do not know about the down low design, thoery behind all of them.
I guess the quality of a product will depend on how skillful of its creator (factory/ machine, workers inside)
The overall performance, and stablility of a board will also depend on qaulity of other components. Every single "nuts and bolts" count.
I have no knowledge on which chipset is better for i do not know about the down low design, thoery behind all of them.
I guess the quality of a product will depend on how skillful of its creator (factory/ machine, workers inside)
The overall performance, and stablility of a board will also depend on qaulity of other components. Every single "nuts and bolts" count.
Duvie: As an alternative to VIA (KT266A) as well as the overhyped nForce, have you considered the revised Ali Magic 1 (C-stepping) chipset? Iwill's XP333 looks pretty darn good to me (and the price is right)!
One common misconception right now is that maybe SIS 735 is ECS K7S5A.
well im not into the details of things, but basing on what following revisons, it can only get better for sis. Basing it on VIA's own history, revisions that do follow make them better(KT133 to KT133A; KT266A to the current beloved KT266A). So following the rule of it only gets better(there are some exceptions to the rule though....mention something like VIA's current PCI latency woes). I think(I said that with a big I, OK) SIS can only improve and move forward. The ECS K7S5Ais by far the widely distributed SIS-chipset based offering; though there are others. The company are far from perfect, as exemplified by the number of threads that have sprung bashing them , but like what many people here think, there is a quiet majority here who have liked them; maybe an even bigger number of repeat customers as well.
Now as far as the problems with them have gone, board revisions seem to have minimized the problems, but of course there are problems still. But they can only get better(or so we hope).
Maybe when the higher-tier mobo manufacturers actually offer their mobos based on SIS chipsets, then finally a big, well deserved pay-off for SIS.
well im not into the details of things, but basing on what following revisons, it can only get better for sis. Basing it on VIA's own history, revisions that do follow make them better(KT133 to KT133A; KT266A to the current beloved KT266A). So following the rule of it only gets better(there are some exceptions to the rule though....mention something like VIA's current PCI latency woes
). I think(I said that with a big I, OK) SIS can only improve and move forward. The ECS K7S5Ais by far the widely distributed SIS-chipset based offering; though there are others. The company are far from perfect, as exemplified by the number of threads that have sprung bashing them , but like what many people here think, there is a quiet majority here who have liked them; maybe an even bigger number of repeat customers as well. Now as far as the problems with them have gone, board revisions seem to have minimized the problems, but of course there are problems still. But they can only get better(or so we hope).
Maybe when the higher-tier mobo manufacturers actually offer their mobos based on SIS chipsets, then finally a big, well deserved pay-off for SIS.
<< Maybe when the higher-tier mobo manufacturers actually offer their mobos based on SIS chipsets, then finally a big, well deserved pay-off for SIS. >>
I'm all for competiton with VIA, but frankly, despite what some members of Anandtech may think, SiS isn't at that level yet.
AGodspeed, the problem is those old video cards do not follow proper AGP design specifications. The ones that do are not an issue. It not the fault of the motherboard maker.
The i845 and i850 chipsets aren't "flawed" because they can't operate those 3.3 volt cards, it's simply a limitation of the chipset, as Athlon4all mentioned. However, I've used several Socket A boards that could operate 3.3 volt cards and not fry. So take it as you will.
The i845 and i850 chipsets aren't "flawed" because they can't operate those 3.3 volt cards, it's simply a limitation of the chipset, as Athlon4all mentioned. However, I've used several Socket A boards that could operate 3.3 volt cards and not fry. So take it as you will.
If only VIA hadnt strong armed the higher-tier based mobo manufacturers into not manufacturing SIS-based mobos....Anyway if a crappy company like ECS can do something as half-baked as the K7S5A on its first outing and still come up with something good, now imagine if a company like MSI, Gigabyte, EPOX or ASUS could have done with their SIS-based mobos.
<< If only VIA hadnt strong armed the higher-tier based mobo manufacturers into not manufacturing SIS-based mobos....Anyway if a crappy company like ECS can do something as half-baked as the K7S5A on its first outing and still come up with something good, now imagine if a company like MSI, Gigabyte, EPOX or ASUS could have done with their SIS-based mobos. >>
There's only so much you can do - you can't make gold out of lead, or vice versa.
Link for shuttle 735 board
I have the ECS735 mother board....Has run without flaw for 4 months now with a duron 800, and switched to a XP1600+ with no problems...have the latest bios....nice board....would buy another...and I have a enhance 350 power supply...2 burners , 2 hard drives and Nvidia GTS video card...256meg Crucial ddr ram...stock AMD fan and heat sink....I would agree not an over clocker board...but didn't buy it for that...Put windows XP on it about a week ago....picked up everything....installed better than any other Windows ver I have had.....this board is ver. 2....
I have the ECS735 mother board....Has run without flaw for 4 months now with a duron 800, and switched to a XP1600+ with no problems...have the latest bios....nice board....would buy another...and I have a enhance 350 power supply...2 burners , 2 hard drives and Nvidia GTS video card...256meg Crucial ddr ram...stock AMD fan and heat sink....I would agree not an over clocker board...but didn't buy it for that...Put windows XP on it about a week ago....picked up everything....installed better than any other Windows ver I have had.....this board is ver. 2....
AZGamer wrote:
"I'm all for competiton with VIA, but frankly, despite what some members of Anandtech may think, SiS isn't at that level yet."
ROFLMAO. What, per se, would you consider to be "at that level"? And furthermore, what "level" are we discussing? The bi-daily 4-in-1 "patches" that your great VIA releases to fix endless core logic deficiencies?
SiS took the Socket A world by storm with 735, and 745 is looking mighty fine indeed.
"I'm all for competiton with VIA, but frankly, despite what some members of Anandtech may think, SiS isn't at that level yet."
ROFLMAO. What, per se, would you consider to be "at that level"? And furthermore, what "level" are we discussing? The bi-daily 4-in-1 "patches" that your great VIA releases to fix endless core logic deficiencies?
SiS took the Socket A world by storm with 735, and 745 is looking mighty fine indeed.
<< The bi-daily 4-in-1 "patches" that your great VIA releases to fix endless core logic deficiencies? >>
VIA fixes problems as they are discovered. SiS rests on it's laurels with less updates. Take that as you will........
I will consider them at the level when they produce a chipset that does not have as many serious flaws as every implementation of the 735 had.
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